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    • Please see my witness statement below.  Please let me know what modifications I need to apply.  I haven't included anything related to "administrative charge while paying by credit or debit card" as I wasn't sure if I should include since sign says "it may apply"   Background  1.1 Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of November 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.    Contract  2.1 No Locus Standi, I do not believe a contract exists with the landowner that gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” From PoFA (Protection of Freedoms Act) 2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-  (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or  (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44  For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.    Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed  3.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.  3.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.  3.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.  3.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.    Unfair PCN  4.1         As stipulated in Exhibit 1 (Pages 7-13) sent by DCB Legal following the defendant’s CPR request the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows £60.00 parking charge notice and will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue. The defendant puts it to the claimant a request for strict proof when the signage changed to show £100.00 parking charge as the evidence provided by DCB Legal stipulated £60.00 parking charge was indeed the parking charge at the time defendant parked and included in Exhibit 1   4.3        The Claimant did not respect PAPLOC   4.4        It is also unfair to delay litigation for so long and claim nearly four years' interest.    No Keeper Liability  5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.  5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.    5.3        The claimant did not mention parking period instead only mentioned time 20:25 which is not sufficient to qualify as a parking period.   Protection of Freedoms Act 2012  The notice must -  (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;      No Breach of Contract  6.1      No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY.  6.2        The wording “Electric Bay Abuse” is not listed on their signs nor there is any mention on the contract of any electric charging points at all let alone who can park there or use them.    Double Recovery  7.1        As well as the original £100 parking charge and £50 allowed court/legal costs, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  7.2        PoFA Schedule 4, paragraph 4(5) states that “the maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper is the amount specified in the notice to keeper”. Which in this case is £100.  7.3        The Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019 is also quite clear that the maximum amount recoverable is £100.  Government ministers and government web pages explaining the Act refer to extra charges as "a rip off".  7.4        Unless the Claimant can clearly demonstrate how these alleged additional costs have been incurred this would appear to be an attempt at double recovery.  7.5        Previous parking charge cases have found that the parking charge itself is at a level to include the costs of recovery i.e. Parking Eye Ltd vs Beavis (2015) UKSC 67 which is the authority for recovery of the parking charge itself and no more, since the sum £85 was held to already incorporate the costs of an automated private parking business model and the Supreme Court Judges held that a parking firm not in possession cannot plead any part of their case in damages. It is indisputable that an alleged “parking charge” penalty is a sum which the Supreme Court found is already inflated to more than comfortably cover all costs. The case provides a finding of fact by way of precedent, that the £85 (or up to a Trade Body ceiling of £100 depending on the parking firm) covers the costs of all the letters. Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court V Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practise continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (...) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6        In Claim numbers F0DP806M and F0DP201T, Britannia vs Crosby the courts went further in a landmark judgement in November 2019 which followed several parking charge claims being struck out in the area overseen by His Honour Judge Iain Hamilton-Douglas Hughes GC, the Designated Civil Judge for Dorset, Hampshire, Isle of Wight & Wiltshire. District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgement or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating “It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgement in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for a addi8onal sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998.  7.7        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.  7.8        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).  7.9        The Defendant is of the view that the Claimant knew, or should have known, that to claim in excess of £100 for a parking charge on private lands is disallowed under the CPRs, the Beavis case, the PoFA AND THE CRA 2015, and that relief from sanctions should be refused.    In Conclusion  8.1        I believe the Claimant has got use to intimidation tactics and has got greedy. I believe the truth of the manor is the Claimant has used bullying tactics successfully for too long and is therefore assured that innocent drivers will fall into the trap of paying rather than going through the hours it takes to defend themselves. In the process, wasting the time of the Court, the time of the Defendant and everyone else who has advised the Defendant, out of sheer decency to help have a fair hearing and see justice delivered.  8.2        I am still in disbelief that I am being heard in this court, defending myself nearly 4 years after receiving a charge through my door. I have had to spend weeks’ worth of my life studying the letter of the law in order to defend myself from this ridiculous attempt at a swindle.  8.3        I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. 
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Vodafone - Default


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If VF refuse a deadlock letter or you feel that you have gone as far as you can with VF, I'm sure the Ombudsman will look at it for you. They may ask VF to look at it once more before they get fully involved but they will then be aware of the dispute.

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If VF refuse a deadlock letter or you feel that you have gone as far as you can with VF, I'm sure the Ombudsman will look at it for you. They may ask VF to look at it once more before they get fully involved but they will then be aware of the dispute.

 

Thanks for the info silverfox. I have submitted the complain at ombudsman.

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  • 2 weeks later...
i got a reply from LEE Guys! Which is very Disappointing. Vodafone only cares about itself. They made a mistake aswell and they don't have the recordings to check. in that case they should have grant the benefit of doubt to the customer! I know Lee tried his best but vodafone always going to be selfish.

 

LEE reply:

 

 

 

 

Someone please help me write a letter to the commissioner!

 

Thanks,

 

Jay

 

Hi Jay,

 

I appreciate that you remain unhappy with the outcome of our investigation.

 

It's never a pleasant situation when we have to deliver news which we know isn't what the customer was hoping for but I can assure you that this matter has been investigated as thoroughly as possible.

Thanks for the info silverfox. I have submitted the complain at ombudsman.

 

Naturally, should the Ombudsman opt to review your case we will co-operate fully with them.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

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I got confused by the values quoted in this thread as well

 

1. Why did vodaphone increase the contract from £17.50 to £45 for the last 3 months - was this retaliation for not renewing the contract? Would this have been different if jayzz had took their time thinking about this?

 

2. Did vodaphone ever send invoices for the amounts claimed along with explanations?

 

3. why were there additional charges added by the DCA

 

4. Why is the default recorded for £240?

 

Is it me or does this really not add up?

 

It sounds to me as though the DCA was the first that jayzz heard about the bill was the debt collectors & paid immediately ...

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2Grumpy

Re: Vodafone - Default

 

I got confused by the values quoted in this thread as well

 

1. Why did vodaphone increase the contract from £17.50 to £45 for the last 3 months - was this retaliation for not renewing the contract? Would this have been different if jayzz had took their time thinking about this?

 

2. Did vodaphone ever send invoices for the amounts claimed along with explanations?

 

3. why were there additional charges added by the DCA

 

4. Why is the default recorded for £240?

 

Is it me or does this really not add up?

 

I dont know, Stupid thing I did was I didn't take them seriously.

 

I paid them £100 and I was talking to consumer direct and other help lines for help.

 

Consumer direct mentioned that If I never agreed on the phone for the last 3 months. They shouldn't charge me

 

When I requested for recording they said I had to PAY! but LEE told that vodafone don't keep the recording more than

3 months! Now I had to take the blame for that. I don't have the bills or recording to prove it to them.

 

I still paid including their solicitor FEE (I Guess). Still I get punished! I am with T-Mobile for 21 months now and I paid more than £2000 so far! no late PAYMENTS!!! The only reason I refused to pay was they try to over charge me! even tho I was with them for 3 years!

 

SELFISH, the moment I said I wanna leave vodafone. I was ripped off! with a default!

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I got confused by the values quoted in this thread as well

 

1. Why did vodaphone increase the contract from £17.50 to £45 for the last 3 months - was this retaliation for not renewing the contract? Would this have been different if jayzz had took their time thinking about this?

 

2. Did vodaphone ever send invoices for the amounts claimed along with explanations?

 

3. why were there additional charges added by the DCA

 

4. Why is the default recorded for £240?

 

Is it me or does this really not add up?

 

It sounds to me as though the DCA was the first that jayzz heard about the bill was the debt collectors & paid immediately ...

 

Hi 2Grumpy,

 

I can assure you, together with anyone else reading this thread, that we wouldn't increase any customer's price plan as a result of them letting us know that they wished to leave us.

 

Each month a bill will either be posted to the customer or if they've registered for online billing an email alert would be sent letting them know that their bill is ready.

 

In instances where is has become necessary to refer an account to a DCA an administration fee is added. This is something which is communicated to the customer in our default notice letter.

I dont know, Stupid thing I did was I didn't take them seriously.

 

I paid them £100 and I was talking to consumer direct and other help lines for help.

 

Consumer direct mentioned that If I never agreed on the phone for the last 3 months. They shouldn't charge me

 

When I requested for recording they said I had to PAY! but LEE told that vodafone don't keep the recording more than

3 months! Now I had to take the blame for that. I don't have the bills or recording to prove it to them.

 

I still paid including their solicitor FEE (I Guess). Still I get punished! I am with T-Mobile for 21 months now and I paid more than £2000 so far! no late PAYMENTS!!! The only reason I refused to pay was they try to over charge me! even tho I was with them for 3 years!

 

SELFISH, the moment I said I wanna leave vodafone. I was ripped off! with a default!

 

Hi jayzz,

 

When we spoke about your case last month I did fully explain our position in regard to the default.

 

Recording a default isn't something which is taken lightly and we would much prefer the customer got in touch with us to discuss their concerns prior to this point so we can manage the situation appropriately with them.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

 

 

 

 

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Hi 2Grumpy,

 

I can assure you, together with anyone else reading this thread, that we wouldn't increase any customer's price plan as a result of them letting us know that they wished to leave us.

 

Each month a bill will either be posted to the customer or if they've registered for online billing an email alert would be sent letting them know that their bill is ready.

 

In instances where is has become necessary to refer an account to a DCA an administration fee is added. This is something which is communicated to the customer in our default notice letter.

 

 

 

So jayzz should check that the last bills were received, what value they were per month excluding usage (£45 or £17.50), that the terms & conditions allow for admin charges to be added & that a default letter was received & what that said

 

This still doesn't sound right

 

If in doubt, SAR & get as much as possible

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I would also send a SAR but stipulate that you want ALL account history, not the potted version.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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This looks like another instance of Vodaphone using credit files as a debt collection tool. It seems that there was some kind of dispute in existence since the original phone call.

 

Voda will of course say that they can't remove defaults - other threads show that they won't until their legal dept has their minds concentrated by court papers

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This looks like another instance of Vodaphone using credit files as a debt collection tool. It seems that there was some kind of dispute in existence since the original phone call.

 

Voda will of course say that they can't remove defaults - other threads show that they won't until their legal dept has their minds concentrated by court papers

 

Absolutely

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?331893-Default-registered-by-Vodaphone-on-account-that-is-not-mine/page3

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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This looks like another instance of Vodaphone using credit files as a debt collection tool. It seems that there was some kind of dispute in existence since the original phone call.

 

Voda will of course say that they can't remove defaults - other threads show that they won't until their legal dept has their minds concentrated by court papers

 

Hi 2Grumpy,

 

Whilst I naturally can't go into specifics here or with any other case which is handled by the Web Relations Team I can confirm that we do give sufficient opportunity to our customers, who fall into arrears, to contact us in order to discuss matters further prior to the account being referred to a DCA and a default being recorded.

 

As can be seen in a number of other threads we have taken action, on a goodwill gesture basis, to remove adverse information from customers' credit files following a thorough review of their situations.

 

However, it's also worth noting that in other cases our investigations have resulted in a negative outcome for the customer. Of course, it isn't nice to have to go back to people to confirm that we're unable to assist them any further but in some instances this is necessary.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

 

 

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Hi 2Grumpy,

 

Whilst I naturally can't go into specifics here or with any other case which is handled by the Web Relations Team I can confirm that we do give sufficient opportunity to our customers, who fall into arrears, to contact us in order to discuss matters further prior to the account being referred to a DCA and a default being recorded.

 

As can be seen in a number of other threads we have taken action, on a goodwill gesture basis, to remove adverse information from customers' credit files following a thorough review of their situations.

 

However, it's also worth noting that in other cases our investigations have resulted in a negative outcome for the customer. Of course, it isn't nice to have to go back to people to confirm that we're unable to assist them any further but in some instances this is necessary.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

 

 

 

Lee, Could you tell me why the bill was £240 something and how much you guys charged the last 3 months.

 

could you either send me a PM or drop an email to me.

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I would make sure that you have copies of all of the last bills & know how much you were charged & what for ...

 

Was that meant to be £45 per month or £15 pm for 3 months. In any event, they should have provided the option to keep going for the 3 months - or longer. It still wasn't £240

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I would make sure that you have copies of all of the last bills & know how much you were charged & what for ...

 

Was that meant to be £45 per month or £15 pm for 3 months. In any event, they should have provided the option to keep going for the 3 months - or longer. It still wasn't £240

 

I was paying £17.50 and I was on the sim only plan. They asked me to pay £45 for the last 3 months.

 

I never took them seriously so I didn't keep my bills and Now I realise my mistakes! Never trust vodafone!

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I think that before any supplier takes the steps of registering a default on a person's credit file, given the affect that it has for 6 years, they should at least do the following:

 

Ensure that the address is correct

Ensure that paper bills have been delivered

Ensure that the customer doesn't believe that there is a dispute

Ensure that the customer has seen everything

 

At the end of a contract, where things might go wrong and there might be a small amount left unpaid, mobile phone companies could treat the debt in the same way as any other company and refrain from updating crdit files until they know the reason why. How many times have you considered not paying a bill until either work has been completed satisfactorily or the bill is correct? The use of credit files removes what little power the customer has (the withholding of payment in a dispute) and, in my opinion, reduces companies that use these tactics to no more than bullies.

 

I have read on here that "the companies have a duty to update the records correctly" - I would suggest that there is plenty of examples that show that they are using this "requirement" to use updating the credit file as a debt collection tool. It is possible to conjecture about how this might benefit them.

 

I don't see many threads about mobile phone companies taking their ex-customers to court to recover the amounts owed, just updating credit files.

 

Although some defaults are removed, some more are removed when the court papers drop on their doorstep, which shows how good they believe their systems are and how good their case really is.

 

Anyone who has been sufficiently misguided to send a CCA request to a mobile company knows that there isn't a credit agreement, so why are they updating credit files anyway? Of course if the hardware element was really a purchase using credit (which I have a lot of sympathy with) then there would be a proper credit agreement in place & the mobile companies would have to be registered & play by the rules...

 

I would also like to see some justification for cutting people off AND making them pay to the end of a contract. Yes, I know it's in the terms & conditions, but why? Either let people use their inclusive allowance of calls, texts & data & go after them for what they have used or don't bill them for it. Yet another debt collection tool, but I think that the paying to the end of the contract is really mainly to recover the cost of the phone - see above

 

The Information Commissioner's advice is that defaults for small values where the affect is disproportionate should not be made. Where this conflicts with the supplier's or CRA's policies, surely the ICO should take precedence. Likewise, other organisations should be ignoring these default - but they obviously don't.

 

This could be another example of unfair contract terms and conditions imposed by suppliers - no doubt they all have this in their t&cs.

 

At the very least, there should be warnings on adverts, contracts & web sites explaining that credit files will be updated & the affect of any dispute etc.

 

Perhaps if the updating of credit files by suppliers is to continue there should be an independent arbitration scheme funded by levies on suppliers who use CRAs & CRAs themselves whose decision is binding on the suppliers & CRAs (but allowing customers to still take them to court) who could impose some fairness on this. Their first step might be to automatically remove defaults less than £50 or £100.

 

I should make it clear that I'm not taking a shot at the employees who try their best on this site to get this kind of dispute resolved, but at the companies & their procedures & lack of regulation and the disproportionate amount of harm that they cause by their debt collection procedures.

Edited by 2Grumpy
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You make a very good point about tarrifs. contract phones have included x amount of minutes, x amount of texts and x amount of internet within the overall price. They incorporate these into the base cost to encourage a person to take out the contract but if itt goes wrong, the customer is liable for the entire contract cost.

This (to me) is unfair. What it should be is the basic cost without the calls, texts and internet included.

 

As an example, Vodafone have the HTC wildife on contract and for £20.50 per month you get:

300 minutes,unlimited texts and 250mb of interweb (not including the 500mb of bt openzone) with a 'free'phone

 

If you take everything down to it's lowest level. We already know that texts actually cost around 1p to send and I would imagine the cheapest call rate is 5p per minute so taking that into account and saying a maximum of 200 texts and totally ignoring the net access, the usage costs £17 per month so the phone costs are £3.50 for 24 months (£84)

 

I suspect mobile phone companies have something within their T's&C's that get around that

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I think that there should be a lot more clarity about costs.

 

I see the inclusive minutes etc as part of a package to get you hooked as well as the phone - I doubt very much that most people use all of their allowance on everything that's included, so the actual amount for the phone is probably higher.

 

Another part of the tariff is the charges for additional minutes / texts / MB. These look out of line with what is included in the tariff - maybe that's partly due to the real rate for inclusive minutes is higher because most don't use them all (if you see what I mean)

 

As far as paying for the complete con tract is concerned, that would become clearer if the phone was unbundled & you were only responsible for that & actual usage if you wanted to end the contract. Look at gas / electricity - if you don't pay up, they switch you to pay as you go & recover the debt from the top-up. They don't cut you off & tell you that you have to pay for all of the electricity that you would have used until the end of the year or two. That would also resolve problems due to poor service or no signal - ok you keep on paying for the phone but you could take it to another network without waiting for the contract to end whilst getting no use from it.

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I think that there should be a lot more clarity about costs.

 

I see the inclusive minutes etc as part of a package to get you hooked as well as the phone - I doubt very much that most people use all of their allowance on everything that's included, so the actual amount for the phone is probably higher.

 

Another part of the tariff is the charges for additional minutes / texts / MB. These look out of line with what is included in the tariff - maybe that's partly due to the real rate for inclusive minutes is higher because most don't use them all (if you see what I mean)

 

As far as paying for the complete con tract is concerned, that would become clearer if the phone was unbundled & you were only responsible for that & actual usage if you wanted to end the contract. Look at gas / electricity - if you don't pay up, they switch you to pay as you go & recover the debt from the top-up. They don't cut you off & tell you that you have to pay for all of the electricity that you would have used until the end of the year or two. That would also resolve problems due to poor service or no signal - ok you keep on paying for the phone but you could take it to another network without waiting for the contract to end whilst getting no use from it.

 

Guys, I will be even happy if they marked it as a late payment but 6 years is not FAIR! even a convict will get a chance to explain to himself. I just started my company 6 months back and now I am literally stuck! I got no finance and banks are refused to give me loan because of this default. My company is number 1 on google!!! and I am still struggling because we don't have the infrastructure! I haven't had any late payments for more than an year and I settled all my credit cards!

 

Because of Vodafone's Default!, I end up taking numerous payday loan and put my self into more problems!

 

I paid the money!!!! and I been with you guys for 3 years and took my money all this time. When I decided to leave, they turned the back on me!

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Guys, I will be even happy if they marked it as a late payment but 6 years is not FAIR! even a convict will get a chance to explain to himself. I just started my company 6 months back and now I am literally stuck! I got no finance and banks are refused to give me loan because of this default. My company is number 1 on google!!! and I am still struggling because we don't have the infrastructure! I haven't had any late payments for more than an year and I settled all my credit cards!

 

Because of Vodafone's Default!, I end up taking numerous payday loan and put my self into more problems!

 

I paid the money!!!! and I been with you guys for 3 years and took my money all this time. When I decided to leave, they turned the back on me!

 

Do you have proof that it is just the Vodaphone default that is stopping you from getting loans?

 

n.b. Using your credit cards should be cheaper than payday loans

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Do you have proof that it is just the Vodaphone default that is stopping you from getting loans?

 

n.b. Using your credit cards should be cheaper than payday loans

 

Whenever I call banks for over-draft or loans they asking me to check my credit score. I paid all my credit card off before I started my company. I canceled all of them. I just got 1 credit card from HSBC.

 

Credit card companies rejecting my application (Credit check FAILED).

 

I calculated how much payday I got and I got payday worth £6k! :(:(

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Lee, Could you tell me why the bill was £240 something and how much you guys charged the last 3 months.

 

could you either send me a PM or drop an email to me.

 

Hi jayzz,

 

I'll arrange for you to receive copies of the bills which comprised the final balance you paid.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

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