Can Interest be applied post Judgment/urgent advice needed

[sequenci]

You can appeal if the judge gets the law wrong.

A time order is possible - whilst at the same time asking the judge to consider the rate of interest.

You might want to consider looking into an unfair relationship argument too (this isn't an area that I'm particularly well versed in)

[AndyOrch]

Hi Flint

 

The provisions were introduced by the Consumer Credit Act 2006. They applied to new agreements from 6 April 2007, and to pre-existing agreements from 6 April 2008. Agreements completed before the new provisions took effect remain subject to the previous extortionate credit bargains provisions.

 

The 2006 Act also enhanced the right to apply for a time order, which is a court procedure that can give borrowers more time to repay a debt

 

The unfair relationships provisions

 

Section 140A of the 1974 Act provides that a court may determine that the relationship between a lender and a borrower arising out of a credit agreement (or the agreement taken with any related agreement) is unfair to the borrower because of:

 

any of the terms of the credit agreement or a related agreement

the way in which the lender has exercised or enforced its rights under the credit agreement or a related agreement, or

any other thing done (or not done) by or on behalf of the lender either before or after the making of the credit agreement or a related agreement.

The courts have a wide range of powers where a credit relationship is found to be unfair, including:

 

altering the terms of the credit agreement or a related agreement

reducing the amount payable by the borrower

requiring the lender to refund money to the borrower

removing any duty placed on the borrower under the agreement, and

imposing requirements on the lender or an associate.

In addition, where unfair relationships harm the collective interests of consumers, the OFT and other enforcers (including Local Authority Trading Standards services) can take enforcement action under Part 8 of the Enterprise Act 2002.

 

The OFT has published guidance on Part 8 action and unfair relationships. The guidance was updated in August 2011. See Unfair relationships - Enforcement action under Part 8 of the Enterprise Act 2002.

 

It is not the role of the OFT to take up complaints on behalf of individual consumers. If a consumer has a complaint against a lender, and considers that the overall relationship is unfair, s/he should speak to a Citizens Advice Bureau or other debt adviser.

 

Alternatively, if the consumer has pursued the complaint with the lender but is dissatisfied with the outcome, s/he can approach the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

 

Time orders

 

Section 129 of the 1974 Act provides that a court can make a time order, giving the consumer more time to repay a debt under a regulated consumer credit or consumer hire agreement, if the court considers it 'just' to do so. In addition, section 136 provides that an agreement may be amended as a consequence of a time order - for example, by reducing the rate of interest or extending the term of the agreement.

 

The consumer can apply for a time order following receipt of a default notice, or a notice of enforcement action under the Act. The court can also make a time order as part of proceedings brought by the lender for enforcement of the agreement or to recover possession of goods or land (for example, mortgage repossession).

 

A consumer can also apply for a time order following receipt of an arrears notice, provided that s/he first gives notice to the lender and submits an alternative payment proposal, and at least 14 days elapse before an application is made to the court.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Flintstone1]

Had the Hearing. Not gone too well. The Judge hadnt seemed to have read my Rejoinder gave time to only two of my arguments. 1. That the creditor misled the court in the charge application when he never informed them of a massive £123k payment was made. and 2. That he has no claim for PJI because he never supplied the 130a notices, if you recall these turned up on the day of the last hearing and claimed to have been sent, my relatives partner swore on oath that they never had arrived, and i raised that it was telling that they were not in the charge application as PJI makes up a considerable amount of this. But the judge dismissed both arguments. I supplied in my rejoinder arguments that interest cannot be part of the judgment sum as interest cannot accrue until section 130a are served post judgment and should be claimed seperatly.etc I supplied several articles by P Magde, adviser and quarterly account. The Judge never even viewed these and started to sum up, i raised this then and he said i was mistaken in my assumptions. Also he believed that stat interest could also be charged, even though i supplied the section of the 91 act stating no stat interest on a CCA 74 regulated debt. So he has adjourned to to afford me time to supply more info on these points (but they were in front of him) One point he did raise that he was astounded at the Interest Rates and said should i consider to apply to set the judgment aside if there was a Unfairness,extortionate rate argument. One problem i have is that as each hearing passes interest is still accruing is there anything i can do, they have sent an arreas notice so i could apply for a time order and try and have the interest frozen, but how can i do this when it is in dispute?

[AndyOrch]

Sorry it didn't go so well Flintstone was he in a rush to get to the golf club? Looks like he is flagging The unfair relationships provisions to you.

 

 

 

Andy

[sequenci]

I agree with Andy, it sounds like the judge doesn't have much of a clue. A bit worrying

[AndyOrch]

Quite frightening Sequenci when you consider the values involved here.

[Flintstone1]

Quick other point by us LIP it didnt seemed to help, as the Judge wanted to be guided and was dubious of my arguments. Maybe i get representation to speak for us next time or attach a opinion? Other point when i type up and space it is fine but once uploaded it is not doing?

[Flintstone1]

He also noted it to be himself take next hearing

I agree with Andy, it sounds like the judge doesn't have much of a clue. A bit worrying

[Guest]

:???:what happened there! did the j hold that they had sent the required notices? what proof did they offer? or did j dismiss s130 outright? statute is clear, no notices at the time=no pjci interest etc. anyway, at least it is not final.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Ford

[AndyOrch]

Quick other point by us LIP it didnt seemed to help, as the Judge wanted to be guided and was dubious of my arguments. Maybe i get representation to speak for us next time or attach a opinion? Other point when i type up and space it is fine but once uploaded it is not doing?

 

This is a trend particularly now with the Salford set up most want guidance which the LiP cant afford and is putting justice out of reach for most LiP,s.

 

Check which browser you are using re the spacing.

 

Andy

[Flintstone1]

None, they sent them by post!

:???:what happened there! did the j hold that they had sent the required notices? what proof did they offer? statute is clear, no notices=no pjci interest etc. anyway, at least it is not final.

[Flintstone1]

Definatley need to look at my tact, must consider either representation or another opinion to assist. But last opinion one was not as in depth as all your advice and what i have found!

This is a trend particularly now with the Salford set up most want guidance which the LiP cant afford and is putting justice out of reach for most LiP,s.

 

Check which browser you are using re the spacing.

 

Andy

[Guest]

representation could be an option. solicitor? 3/400? for the hearing plus preparation. which they would prob get back if successful? is that viable?

Edited May 3, 2012 by Ford

[Guest]

None, they sent them by post!

 

did j dismiss s130 outright? or accept that the notices were sent at the time (they can't be retrospective)?

[Flintstone1]

He simply accepted they must have been sent at the correct time, stated "the possibility of not receiving one is possible but not all Four", he obviously again didn't understand the relevance of the First one (1st required Notice) anyway. Yes representation is viable and/or further opinion on the original Judgment (and/or unfair relations) and on the issue of PJI not being part of the Judgment. If my representations had come from a Barrister i feel would now be writing a complete different account!!

[sequenci]

Even if the notices were perfectly sent the actual interest would still have to accrue separately - away from the judgment debt - according to nearly every person that's considered the issue. Peter Madge knows more about the CCA than most. And that would include judges imo.

[Flintstone1]

I really didnt expect the Judge to not have even looked at my Rejoinder to the Claimants WS, if he had there were several Exhibits from Quarterly and Adviser documenting this issue. At least after i raised this and he browsed at "Interesting after Judgment" he at least back tracked and has afforded me more time on this issue, but before rather concerning adding "i dont know what you mean!" Anyway pick up brush off,head up and start again.

[AndyOrch]

"Anyway pick up brush off,head up and start again"

 

Thats the spirit Flintstone.

 

Andy

[Guest]

flint

have you previously done a sar on this? their computerised timeline/logs might show something re nature of correspondence out etc?

[Flintstone1]

Thanks Andy,Sequenci, hi Ford, i Yea Good idea will do, but lets not forget 100 per cent the Notices were never sent, so if the claimant is willing to lie, he will obviously remove any relevant parts he can!!

[Guest]

yes, they may try and 'redact' certain info seeing as the matter is subject to litigation! was thinking that if their letters out are logged, then from that you could poss show J that the corresponding letter received did not contain any s130 notices, or that no notices were sent. depending on what's shown on their logs?

Edited May 4, 2012 by Ford

[Flintstone1]

Yes Possible and suppose if i knew of any missing, i could ask the J to allow Disclosures.

yes, they may try and 'redact' certain info seeing as the matter is subject to litigation! was thinking that if their letters out are logged, then from that you could poss show J that the corresponding letter received did not contain any s130 notices, or that no notices were sent. depending on what's shown on their logs?

[Guest]

time limit for a sar is 40 days! would that be in time?

not sure re disclosure rules re a CO hearing?

what about cpr part 18 also? would that be applicable/of any use?

perhaps andy etc can confirm on that?

or your legal rep will advise

Edited May 4, 2012 by Ford

[Flintstone1]

Think enough time as last hearing took well over 40days.

 

Need to now look into the "Unfairness Arguments" Maybe Andy can point me where to start? To see if Setting aside the Judgment is a possibility, even if not, the way the J implied i know he would consider these points anyway at the next hearing.

[AndyOrch]

I recall this dates to 2007 so the new regs kick in here.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/14/crossheading/unfair-relationships.

 

Regards

 

Andy