Benefits being stopped and massive bill

[caro]

Mandy was only getting IS as she's only just started getting DLA, since we applied for it in November 2011 when I got involved. She may have had incapacity benefit at some point over the years, but never disability. Just seems odd to me that these things don't get reviewed, at least every few years.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Can you believe that Mandy has been claiming IS since June 1990 and it doesn't seem to have been reviewed in all those years. I find that quite shocking and irresponsible if I've got it

 

Have seen a few cases like Mandys, nothing in the notepad since the nineties

A review form was usually sent out every couple of years to check for any changes but this sometimes got overlooked and cases slipped through the net..

If Mandy never moved address in all that time then its easy for years to have gone by with out contact. All she would have got was the annual benefit uprating letter;

[caro]

She moved into her house in 1982 I think so looks like that's what happened. Is there any mileage in this for the appeal?

[flumps1976]

I wouldn't think it would have any bearing in te appeal as the original declaration signed states that all changes in circumstances will be reported.

[caro]

I had a feeling that might be the case flumps. Just exploring all the possibilities.

 

Been to see Mandy this morning and had a good chat about things. As well as the bundle of papers she's had a letter about the hearing. There's a delay of about 40 weeks round here so looks like it'll be around February next year.

 

We had a form to fill in and the notes said it can do more harm than good to have a representative who doesn't know what they're doing. I explained this to Mandy, and that there's still a good chance she'll have to pay all the money back. We talked about a solicitor, but she said she's happier if I do it as she knows me and I know her. It hit home that this is a big responsibilty, but I guess the worst that can happen is that Mandy will have to pay all the money back. I don't think she can be any worse off. It's just if a professional could do a better job knowing all the legislation etc. At least I've got plenty of time to prepare.

 

I also said that while we're happy to help her we need to think about the future. I pointed out that in 20 years time we'll all be older and may not be able to help her then so she needs something in place to make sure she has the support she needs. She mentioned that my daughter is good hearted but I was quite firm that she has her own life to lead. I think I got through to her that we need to look at proper support workers, so we're going to look into it.

[LaughingGirl]

I do feel for you Caro. It's the hardest thing in the world to persuade someone that they need proper support, more so than you are able to give them. I've just been through it with my own Mum, so I do have a lot of sympathy for the situation you find yourself in.

[caro]

Well things are starting to happen.

 

Mandy had a form to fill in which asked why she wasn't able to work so we filled it in and heard nothing until this week. She has a medical on 15th of this month. I haven't seen the letter but I'm assuming this is pretty typical.

 

Also had a letter this morning saying the appeal against having to pay back the income support is on 29th November - sooner than I expected. I wasn't expecting this until next year and I thought we'd get more notice so I'm going to have my work cut out refreshing myself with all the information and getting my head round the legal stuff because I know that's what will count.

 

Mandy of course is in a panic about it all, and is upset as well because it's her 50th birthday next week which she's been really looking forward to.

[Zonker]

I feel so sorry for Mandy, its apparent she has slipped through the cracks and it has not been in her interest in this case. I would also agree its in Mandy's best interest if someone represents her.

[Nystagmite]

Caro - can I just say that I think you're wonderful with what you've done for Mandy.

[caro]

Very kind of you nys. I just don't like people being treated unfairly, especially when they're vulnerable and its through no fault of their own.

[caro]

Tribunal yesterday. Very quick. The independent lawyer who heard it said she had read the papers, asked a couple of questions including if the DLA application gad been successful and at what rate.

 

She then said it was quite clear that the money had been Mandy's mums until the day she died so there was no overpayment for the first two and a half years!!!!!

 

I couldn't believe we scarcely had to say a word!!!!

 

She said the rest had to be paid back - about 14 months worth as it was a legal requirement to report it. By this time Mandy, mr c and I were grinning all over our faces. She asked if we had anything to ask and because I was so gobsmacked I wasn't thinking straight and asked about the council tax then immediately realised this was just about the DWP but she was lovely about it and suggested using the appeal decision to support that too.

 

I completely forgot all the things I'd planned to say and could maybe have pushed about the rest but my arguments were thin and she'd already said it couldn't be offset against DLA that hadn't been claimed.

 

Mandy is over the moon about the result and that this is all behind her. We haven't got the final figures yet but I reckon the bill should be about £10k less.

 

Now to decide whether we can get back some of that council tax that Mandy paid in a blind panic when court was mentioned.

Edited November 30, 2012 by caro

[Nystagmite]

That's excellent!

[caro]

Thanks nys. We're very chuffed'

[LaughingGirl]

Oh, that is fantastic news! I hope that Mandy can look forward to the new year without all of this hanging over her head now.

 

I think what you've done for her is amazing. Well done you.

[caro]

Thanks LG. Although I felt we had a good case we hear of so many bad decisions on CAG that I wasn't sure that everyone had the same sense of fairness as me, so this has restored my faith and confirmed it's worth standing up for what you believe in. I'm really glad I tried.

 

Besides Mandy's invited us for a meal out with her wherever we want to go and she'll be treating us.

[Nystagmite]

How lovely of her! I hope you have a lovely evening.

[Connie1963]

Yayers!

Its great news for Mandy! No doubt things will be worked out as to what has to be paid back but hopefully , based what income is available, will make it a resonable rate to be decided.( The DWP are under government instructions to deny genuine people of payments full stop, and bullying them into work when they are clearly not able of holding down a job through no fault of their own. ).

 

I really do hope that Mandy can move on now. And to all those that helped her and backed her, well done too!

 

Regards

 

Connie

[LaughingGirl]

Thanks LG. Although I felt we had a good case we hear of so many bad decisions on CAG that I wasn't sure that everyone had the same sense of fairness as me, so this has restored my faith and confirmed it's worth standing up for what you believe in. I'm really glad I tried.

Besides Mandy's invited us for a meal out with her wherever we want to go and she'll be treating us.

 

Yes, I have to admit with all the things happening with the benefits system at the minute I wasn't sure that it would go in her favour. It's lovely to hear that sometimes, the right decision is made.

 

I hope you all have a lovely meal, it's well deserved.

[caro]

Mandy broke her leg in 2 places yesterday and is to have an operation to pin it tomorrow. She can't put weight on it for 6 weeks. This is going to have a big impact on her care needs and mobility. Looks like social services will be assessing her and there will need to be support in place before she can leave hospital. Two questions.

 

1. Are her benefits affected while in hospital?

 

2. Can she apply for any higher benefits until her leg is better?

[caro]

Found the answer to question 1. DLA isn't affected if in hospital for less than 4 weeks.

[caro]

Just thought I'd give an update on Mandy's progress.

 

Following her op Mandy was unable to cope with crutches and an OT decided it wasn't feasible for her to be at home. She's got a kind of frame with elbow rests but wouldn't be able to manage. She was in hospital until about a week ago when she was moved to a home which until recently was owned by the MS Society. In not really sure what the plans are for it now, but it's better than hospital.

 

Regarding the IS overpayment a letter came asking her to advising how much Mandy needs to pay back. It's a little over £6k instead of nearly £16k. Rather strangely it didn't explain how to pay. I phoned to find out fully expecting that the full amount would have to be repaid in one go but before I could discuss this was told £24.13 a week would be stopped out of Mandy's dla. I worked out it'll be paid back in 5 years.

 

I've also written to the council asking for the council tax back that Mandy paid for the period that it was decided she was entitled to IS. I sent a copy of the tribunal decision. Waiting to hear back on that.

[Nystagmite]

I thought they couldn't take money out of DLA for overpayments, unless it was DLA that was overpaid?

[caro]

I wasn't aware of that but as Mandy has no other income because of her capital I guess the only other option would be for her to pay it off ..........

 

As she has to live off that, if it goes below the threshold before the money's paid back then we'd have to renegotiate.

[AnnoyedByDCAs]

I had the same impression as Nystagmite actually - when I had council tax arrears they couldn't take third party deductions from Incapacity Benefit. Once my girlfriend moved in & we had a joint claim they were able to take them from Income Support which was arranged at the statutory minimum of around £3 a week.

 

I'd do some checking on that - http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch33.pdf looks like it covers the regulations.

 

For income based benefits it says this -

 

There is a maximum amount for payment of arrears to third parties. That is 3 x 5% of the personal allowance for a single claimant aged 25 or over (see DMG Chapter 23).

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch23.pdf will give you the personal allowances.

 

Probably going to have to do a bit more digging but I eventually found relevant legislation - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1987/1968/schedule/9/made

 

The rules may be different if she has too much capital to get means tested benefits. Depending on how much over the limit she is it might be worth looking into paying off enough to get under the savings threshold or just getting the savings invested and let them take it from DLA over 5 years.

Edited February 11, 2013 by AnnoyedByDCAs

[caro]

Thanks for the info. I'll take a look, but if someone has no other income do they have other options?