Cap1 & CCA return

[elizabeth1]

Got this in the mail this morning

 

Following is the Agreement, funny thing when I took out this account and another one I lived at a different address, the agreement shows our current address, what else is missing?

 

Blind Harry can see the printing on the contract isn't mine. I was hoping for the signature to be scanned in, as I got Kent to sign the CCA requests.

 

Funny you got your hubby to sign your letters etc.. - we did that too and it's amazing how things get "scanned" into documents isn't it?

I am laughing cause I prove that certain signatures were not my own!! Little does a certain company realise

[un1boy]

Funny you got your hubby to sign your letters etc.. - we did that too and it's amazing how things get "scanned" into documents isn't it?

I am laughing cause I prove that certain signatures were not my own!! Little does a certain company realise

 

Do you get him to sign your letters in your name?

[Peterbard]

If they have gone over the prescribed time limits, they have broken the law. End of. If they produce the documentation after the time limit they have still broken the law, it doesn't go away.

 

Turn section 77, 78 & 85 on its head it doesn't say that the agreement is enforceable if the bank produces the agreement after the time limit either does it. Only a court can determine whether an agreemnt is in existance once the contract has been breeched.

 

With respect you are confusing several issues here.

 

The 77 request is in default as long as the request has not been fullfilled. This means that the creditor cannot persue the debt but only whilst the default continues once the agreement is recieved by the debtor the default is lifted and the creditor can pursue.The fact that after 44 days the creditor has commited an offence is a criminal issue. Nothing to do with the civil default.

 

Peter

[Guest Battleaxe]

I got Kent to sign as me. he is a lefty and I write in modern cursive script, he doesn't, so he signed as me. I was hoping that these clowns would do some creative writing and use his signature. My passport shows my correct signature and thet would be tendered in court in court as evidence that if they tried to forge my supposed signature.

 

Term, thank you for confirming what I already know, but this is the crap they try to pull. I did the whiteout on the Agreement, I don't want everyone to now my middle name or address.

[Guest The Terminator]

I've just finished reading last night's and today's posts.I would just like to point out one thing.A judge will always go by stature and because there are certain regulations that come out now and again they do not overide what the law says in our case the CCA(1974)

[elizabeth1]

Un1boy,

My hubby writes my name rather than signs a signature!! His writing resembles a drunken spider has crawled across a page - not legible as a signature so he "writes" my name - or I leave signature off and type my name!!

[un1boy]

Thanks lizzie - that's a good idea!

[m55dlc]

Lizzie, just be careful that doesn't come back and bite you! If your hubby signed the letter for your s78 request, then it is unsigned and therefore they don't have to comply with it! That's GCSE law stuff!

[elizabeth1]

Thanks lizzie - that's a good idea!

 

 

This way they don't have a relevant signature that they can scan and say is yours!!!

 

I suspected they'd use a scan - and they fell for it!!!

 

Like others I have lot's of relevant Doc's proving my real signature (passport, older loan agreements etc..) so I can honestly stand up and say " sorry - I didn't write this and agree!!"

[m55dlc]

Oh, a message every three minutes all day, and nothing since I went into a meeting at 2.45pm. Was it something I said?

[elizabeth1]

Lizzie, just be careful that doesn't come back and bite you! If your hubby signed the letter for your s78 request, then it is unsigned and therefore they don't have to comply with it! That's GCSE law stuff!

 

My CCA /SAR's were typed no sigs on them - had therehave been any question as to who I was etc.. I am sure companies were able to write asking for proof of ID etc.. - no questions were raised though.

 

No you didn't say anything - my mail box was full earlier too (must have been lunchtime ha ha) then nothing for ages!! I am sure it will be busy later after tea time!!

[un1boy]

Oohh, get you two with all your messages and full inboxes!

 

Mine is full, but only because I'm a maticulous hoarder!!

 

Hehe, only messing!

[tamadus]

As anyone got a link to the Consumer Credit Act Regulations 1983.

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974

[un1boy]

Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Tam, I think he wanted a link to the 1983 regs!

[Peterbard]

Hi Tam

I pm'd a copy of the regs earlier i think i orriginally got them from you.

 

Peter

[tamadus]

I'm a little confused by the post, but I think the gist is, no credit limit, not prperly executed.

 

I'm sitting at the computer now with a copy of an 'agreement' that was alleged to be in operation between me and 'a bank' for a credit card.

 

Lets take it one step at a time, at the top it says Credit Agreement regulated by the CCA 1974', by inference therefore it should adhere to all that is required under that act.

 

1.There is no rate of interest on the sheet, it says in the small print that the rate of interest will be determined after my applcation has been approved.

 

2. There is no credit limit set, once again it says in the small print that the rate of interest will be determined after my applcation has been approved.

 

These are prescribed terms and must be in place above the signature to indicate that the information is readily available to the customer before he signs it and not on another document. If you read the OFTs guidlines on the agreement layout that a couple of people have linked to in this thread, you will see this in black & white.

 

In box 12 of the agreement it goes on to say that

• we will use CRAs to help consider your application.
  
• if you do not qualify for a Gold Card, ..... we may give you a standard card (which is also covered by this agreement) This alludes to that fact that it is indeed an application and not an agreement, in addition the substitution of another 'end product' (if this was an agreement) would be in breech of section 59
  
• and the most damning piece of all is just above the signature box it says quite clearly, please sign and return your application
  
• In addition the box is signed by someone at the bank, but not dated, so is executed on that point I do't know.

So there you have it, I have an agreement that is also an application, but an agreement that does not conform to what is required, that is whty I'm getting my interest back, charges refunded and the data removed from the CRAs

 

Mike

 

 

OMG Thank you Mike you have just put the last piece into my LTSB jigsaw or should I say the last nail in the coffin.

 

Whats even better is they are trying to say here is a copy of our latest T&C (the copy of the orignals is totally illegible). Without those they don't have any arguments left, as my latest letter points out.

 

Mike can you PM me your landline number please. I think 5 minutes talk will just about finish this one once and for all, although they are clinging on by the fingernails owing to the amount outstanding.

[m55dlc]

What about post 1729? Ahhh, but that is from the OFT and not statute - what is the significance of that? Will the CC company be able to quote the OFT guidelines and weasle out of it?

[tamadus]

Hi all

 

Re: credit limits on credit cards:

 

3.10 How should the credit limit be expressed?

 

Sch 1 para 8 requires a statement of the credit limit under a running-account credit agreement. This must appear as part of ‘Key Financial Information’.

 

The credit limit may be expressed as one of the following:

• a sum of money;

 

• a statement that the credit limit will be determined by the creditor from time to time and notified to the debtor;

 

• a sum of money together with a statement that the creditor may vary the credit limit from time to time and notify the debtor;

 

• a statement indicating the manner in which the credit limit will be determined and that notice of it will be given to the debtor; or

 

• a statement indicating that there is no credit limit.

 

It does not therefore need to be expressed as a sum of money, although the OFT would encourage this in the interests of transparency.

 

The Office of Fair Trading Consumer Credit (Agreements etc) Regs draft FAQs 36

 

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!

 

Regards, Pam

 

Agreed Pam but this is still a requirement of the main body of the agreement and should be above the signature boxes, not hidden away in the T&C. Do you know what date that OFT document is?

[tamadus]

Right you horrible lot, I'm away for one night on business and come back to over 5 pages of this thread, will you please slow down

 

Lots of very good stuff and owing to the amount of it I have only replied to a few posts, so I apologise if anyone wanted a reply from me personally, but I think Paul, Mike and Terminator plus others have done a great job in holding the fort.

[InKogneeToh]

Hi Tamadus

 

DRAFT 29/4/05

 

Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 as

amended by the 2004 Amendment Regulations

Consumer Credit (Disclosure of Information) Regulations 2004

Consumer Credit (Early Settlement) Regulations 2004

Frequently asked questions (FAQs)

April 2005

OFT786a

 

Regards, Pam

[tamadus]

Hi Tamadus

 

DRAFT 29/4/05

 

Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 as

amended by the 2004 Amendment Regulations

Consumer Credit (Disclosure of Information) Regulations 2004

Consumer Credit (Early Settlement) Regulations 2004

Frequently asked questions (FAQs)

April 2005

OFT786a

 

Regards, Pam

 

Thanks Pam

 

My concern is what applied in 1986 as later ammendments dont count:(

 

but a lot of this should apply

[Mike220359]

With respect you are confusing several issues here.

 

The 77 request is in default as long as the request has not been fullfilled. This means that the creditor cannot persue the debt but only whilst the default continues once the agreement is recieved by the debtor the default is lifted and the creditor can pursue.The fact that after 44 days the creditor has commited an offence is a criminal issue. Nothing to do with the civil default.

 

Peter

 

I think that we'll have to agree to disagree on this Pete.

 

Mike

[Guest Battleaxe]

OMG..I have had another look at our credit agreement with A & L/MBNA and guess what it doesn't have?

 

It is headed

 

Please ensure you return both pages so that we may complete your agreement

1, no signature by the bank, where it says for and on behalf of Alliance & leicester with no date completed.

 

2. No credit limit

 

3. no rate of interest

 

4. no terms an conditions

 

5. photocopy of faxed photocopy

 

6. barely legible

 

I am will to scan it for anyone to read if you want to see it.

 

Mike I think you have provided me with a bit more ammunition for next Thursdays teleconference.

 

Tam, what do you think appropro our discussions regarding A & L and their Agreements and practices

[Mike220359]

Hi all

 

Re: credit limits on credit cards:

 

3.10 How should the credit limit be expressed?

 

Sch 1 para 8 requires a statement of the credit limit under a running-account credit agreement. This must appear as part of ‘Key Financial Information’.

 

The credit limit may be expressed as one of the following:

• a sum of money;

 

• a statement that the credit limit will be determined by the creditor from time to time and notified to the debtor;

 

• a sum of money together with a statement that the creditor may vary the credit limit from time to time and notify the debtor;

 

• a statement indicating the manner in which the credit limit will be determined and that notice of it will be given to the debtor; or

 

• a statement indicating that there is no credit limit.

 

It does not therefore need to be expressed as a sum of money, although the OFT would encourage this in the interests of transparency.

 

The Office of Fair Trading Consumer Credit (Agreements etc) Regs draft FAQs 36

 

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!

 

Regards, Pam

 

I totally agree Pam, but this is when you are signing an agreement, an application form is not an agreement.

 

Mike

[Mike220359]

Mike have you a link to the Consumer Contract Reulations 1983, can't seem to find it anywhere.

 

Paul

I use the link to the OFT guidlines to lenders that others have used. The opsi, website, and the statute law database, don't have a copy at the moment on line

 

Mike