Cap1 & CCA return

[tamadus]

Will somebody please remind me regularly not to visit the other CCA thread

 

I made a post trying to help and got told by a newbie to take them to court and he can understand if I am frightened of going to court lmao

[The Lantana]

Nice one Tam

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[pmhcfc]

Ok...Got myself up to date with this thread (phew).... Can I throw another question into the fire please.... If an Original Agreement's (loan) Terms and Conditions DO NO state anywhere that the creditor can pass the agreement on etc etc, and then they sell the 'debt' to a DCA, where would that leave things ?

[tamadus]

What me, the great dragon scared of facing some bank or CCP (or even a building society ) across a court ? Pistols at dawn is my moto lol

[tamadus]

Ok...Got myself up to date with this thread (phew).... Can I throw another question into the fire please.... If an Original Agreement's (loan) Terms and Conditions DO NO state anywhere that the creditor can pass the agreement on etc etc, and then they sell the 'debt' to a DCA, where would that leave things ?

 

You actually read it all ? OMG thats impossible lol

 

hmmm interesting question.

 

I actually can't recall ever seeing them include their right to 'sell' an agreement in T&C. They usually put that they will process data to third parties but thats a different matter.

 

IMHO I see no reason why they can't 'sell' a debt as its no different to any other commodity. IF they legally hold the rights to the debt then they can also dispose of those rights.

[InKogneeToh]

Ok...Got myself up to date with this thread (phew).... Can I throw another question into the fire please.... If an Original Agreement's (loan) Terms and Conditions DO NO state anywhere that the creditor can pass the agreement on etc etc, and then they sell the 'debt' to a DCA, where would that leave things ?

 

 

Hi

 

Good question

 

The last actual loan agreement I signed was about 12 years ago and on that document there was a clause that stated something like 'we may at any time assign our rights under this agreement to a third party' or words to that effect and your signature on the agreement gave your consent to this.

 

I can't say I've seen anything like this on more recent credit agreements that my OH or friends/family have and certainly not on any of the credit card agreements I have had since then (yes, there's been a few!).

 

Why is it that it appears to have been necessary to include this clause previously but apparently not any more?

 

Regards, Pam

 

 

[pmhcfc]

Hi

 

Good question

 

The last actual loan agreement I signed was about 12 years ago and on that document there was a clause that stated something like 'we may at any time assign our rights under this agreement to a third party' or words to that effect and your signature on the agreement gave your consent to this.

 

I can't say I've seen anything like this on more recent credit agreements that my OH or friends/family have and certainly not on any of the credit card agreements I have had since then (yes, there's been a few!).

 

Why is it that it appears to have been necessary to include this clause previously but apparently not any more?

 

Regards, Pam

 

 

 

Thanks for your replies thus far- doesn''t the Data question come into this if there's no mention on the T & C's that they (the creditor) have the right to transfer them?

[zubo]

Thanks for your replies thus far- doesn''t the Data question come into this if there's no mention on the T & C's that they (the creditor) have the right to transfer them?

 

Blimey, your up early...

 

that is a different issue - under the DPA the agreement will have a phrase agree to share data - this is your consent under DPA, in doing so as Tam points out you allow them to process your data through CRAs.

 

But assignment of debt... maybe law has changed which allows creditor to do this without any mention in T&C.

 

I was researching assignment a few weeks ago but couldnt find anything that suggested the creditor was obliged to issue anything in respect of the assignment details except that the new creditor was obliged to notify you that he now owned the debt.

The SAR should contain details of the DCA own charges and if I was ever faced with those, I would challenge them as being unfair or penalty charges.

 

Z

[Guest willowb]

Hello to you and thanks for the welcome, as far as we are concerned we now believe that DL&C can no longer persue this debt as they were unable to provide the courts or us with the paperwork to prove that we had a debt in the first place.

A few days after the final charging orders were made DL&C sent us a letter to say that they had been granted the charging orders and that they were sending in the baliffs to collect goods to cover the debt. At the time that we went to court for the hearing for discharge of the charging orders and this information was given to the judge she was horrified stating that DL&C were not allowed to do this as they already had a charging order. We were lucky on that same day that the charging order was discharged and on the same day the paperwork was ordered for the next charging order and the muppets at DL&C still did not learn their lesson and sent the same paperwork as they had for the charging order that was discharged, Thus leaving us with the second charging order being discharged and DL&C losing more money. Considering how quickly they were willing to send out the balliffs letter originally we have not heard from them since and now believe that we should ask for all CCJ's and defaults to be removed from our credit file forthwith. I am also contacting all other credit cards and making sure that they actually have a regulated agreement under the consumer credit act in order to legally collect alleged debtsfrom me.

This is a perfect situation for sending a stat notice, especially since a CCJ can only be removed by the Court.

 

Wxxx

[un1boy]

uni

 

First thing is - from a simplistic view - if you say you have no agreement, then you havent one so why would the bank continue to allow you to use the facilities. One thing I am interested in is what is the form of withdrawal of the facilities? ie how did they tell you - because - whilst THEY are in default they cannot make any enforcement at all!!! seems a bit peverse not to stop you using something you havent signed for and allow you to knock up more debt, but in a way it seems an acknowledgement that there is no agreement - so how did they phrase it??

 

Z

 

Hi Zubo, they havn't yet!

 

I don't think you've grasped what I am saying fella - I don't mean them cancelling the account for which they have provided an enforcable agreement, I mean that becasue they sent an unenforable agreement, can they ask you to close all ur other accounts with them ie current accont, savings, isa? The unenforcable agreement is for a credit card.

 

Hope this explains it a bit better!

[un1boy]

Corn, as I understand they first sent you an application form and then this cobbled agreement?

 

I would write back and say that you believe that what you received is a reconstructed agreement which is not permitted under the original request for a true copy of the original executed agreement nor would be allowed by a county court and that they are still in default and must supply you with the true copy of your agreement.

 

Z

 

Z

 

Does it not constitute to fraud too?

[m55dlc]

We believe it does, but we need to see what reasoning they have behind producing it. It is yet another example of their dirty tricks department churning out stuff to throw us. IMO (and I've got one too (fake 'agreement', you all know I have an opinion)) they are scuppered and it is like throwing up a white flag and saying 'we surrender' as any judge will see it for what it is.

[angel49]

Morning,I'm posting in here again as I have no responses yet from HFC section. Have all my info from HFC but only one credit agreement for an active account. I have 3 other closed accounts and want the agreements for those.From reading other threads, am I correct in thinking HFC do not have to provide them because they are settled/closed?

I want to check amounts added on for PPI etc.

The other closed accounts were loans either settled early/consolidated.

One loan in particular was for £6000 in 2002 but it cost £12,900.Nothing on the info they sent me indicates what the added costs were for.

I have called them, but no-one seems able to say what the figures are,just that the PPI and interest are built in at source.

Hope I've made sense here and thanks for help.

[InKogneeToh]

Hi angel

 

It is correct that the creditor is only obliged to comply with a s77/78 request for an active account.

 

Have you done a SAR on them, because if so they have obviously not sent everything and you should write to them again.

 

Regards, Pam

[angel49]

Thanks Pam,in my other threads I've asked what do I actually send now,CCA or just non-compliance. The info I have came via SAR on Friday.

Is a request under CCA no good in this case?

[JonCris]

If an account debt is being pursued it's not closed

[InKogneeToh]

If an account debt is being pursued it's not closed

 

Hi

 

Angel is trying to get copy agreements from previous accounts that are closed so she can check for/reclaim PPI etc.

 

Regards, Pam

[pmhcfc]

Blimey, your up early...

 

that is a different issue - under the DPA the agreement will have a phrase agree to share data - this is your consent under DPA, in doing so as Tam points out you allow them to process your data through CRAs.

 

But assignment of debt... maybe law has changed which allows creditor to do this without any mention in T&C.

 

I was researching assignment a few weeks ago but couldnt find anything that suggested the creditor was obliged to issue anything in respect of the assignment details except that the new creditor was obliged to notify you that he now owned the debt.

The SAR should contain details of the DCA own charges and if I was ever faced with those, I would challenge them as being unfair or penalty charges.

 

Z

 

Thanks for your imput Zubo...But I still have one question...If the T & C do not state they have the right to pass on the debt/sell it..whatever the wording may be...Could one not argue that one had never agreed for the Orginal Creditor to 'sell the debt on'.

[The Lantana]

Hi pmh,

 

IMHO the right to assign (i.e. sell on) a debt should be included in the agreement T&C's. However this could be deemed an unfair term under the unfair contract terms act, unless there is some sort of reciprocity for the borrower. It is unlikely the creditor would ever agree to to this.

 

So, again IMHO, you could challenge their right to assign if the matter comes to court.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[pmhcfc]

Sorry to the regulars on this wonderful post but I seem full of questions today...THis one is unrelated to my last question... Here's the scenario..

 

CCJ on file for ,say, £200 + costs.. ammount of unlawful charges on account, say £500...Obviously there is case for having CCJ set aside...Now as far as a CCJ is concerned, what does having it 'set-aside' actually mean per say? Does it mean that no more payments need to be made on this and it's effectively 'written off' and no longer exists, or does it mean that te CCJ is effectively 'paid up' and it simply shows as 'settled' ?

[pmhcfc]

Blimey, your up early...

 

that is a different issue - under the DPA the agreement will have a phrase agree to share data - this is your consent under DPA, in doing so as Tam points out you allow them to process your data through CRAs.

 

But assignment of debt... maybe law has changed which allows creditor to do this without any mention in T&C.

 

I was researching assignment a few weeks ago but couldnt find anything that suggested the creditor was obliged to issue anything in respect of the assignment details except that the new creditor was obliged to notify you that he now owned the debt.

The SAR should contain details of the DCA own charges and if I was ever faced with those, I would challenge them as being unfair or penalty charges.

 

Z

 

Hi pmh,

 

IMHO the right to assign (i.e. sell on) a debt should be included in the agreement T&C's. However this could be deemed an unfair term under the unfair contract terms act, unless there is some sort of reciprocity for the borrower. It is unlikely the creditor would ever agree to to this.

 

So, again IMHO, you could challenge their right to assign if the matter comes to court.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

 

Thanks Latana, my opinion is much the same as yours on this. The only thing I can see mentioned in T & C's is that they have the right to inform the CRA's - nothing about assinging the rights and duties to someone else.

[InKogneeToh]

Sorry to the regulars on this wonderful post but I seem full of questions today...THis one is unrelated to my last question... Here's the scenario..

 

CCJ on file for ,say, £200 + costs.. ammount of unlawful charges on account, say £500...Obviously there is case for having CCJ set aside...Now as far as a CCJ is concerned, what does having it 'set-aside' actually mean per say? Does it mean that no more payments need to be made on this and it's effectively 'written off' and no longer exists, or does it mean that te CCJ is effectively 'paid up' and it simply shows as 'settled' ?

 

Hi

 

Having a CCJ set aside just means that that judgement of the court that has given the creditor the right to enforce payment, e.g. charging order, attachment of earnings, bailiff warrant etc. has been cancelled - NOT that the debt has been cancelled.

 

The creditor will need to (and can) apply for judgement again if he wants to - but hopefully the debtor will by then have been able to come to some repayment arrangement or may have some sort of defence to the claim.

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

Hi again

 

Have just found this interesting little snippet about assignment of debts. Of particular interest is the statement:

 

It is, in any event, desirable for notice of an assignment to be given to the third party because the third party will otherwise be entitled to continue to make payments to the assignor!!

 

Lawdit Solicitors - Intellectual Property Solicitors. Southampton Free Legal Articles about Copyright Trade Marks Media Law Patents Data Protection and more

 

Regards, Pam

 

 

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

Having a CCJ set aside just means that that judgement of the court that has given the creditor the right to enforce payment, e.g. charging order, attachment of earnings, bailiff warrant etc. has been cancelled - NOT that the debt has been cancelled.

 

The creditor will need to (and can) apply for judgement again if he wants to - but hopefully the debtor will by then have been able to come to some repayment arrangement or may have some sort of defence to the claim.

 

Regards, Pam

 

Hi

 

Just to ad it is wotrth bearing in mind that icosts the defendant £65 quid if i remember correctly to set a case asside so it is as well to be sure of your ground especioally on a smaller claim.

 

Regards

Peter

[pmhcfc]

Hi

 

Having a CCJ set aside just means that that judgement of the court that has given the creditor the right to enforce payment, e.g. charging order, attachment of earnings, bailiff warrant etc. has been cancelled - NOT that the debt has been cancelled.

 

The creditor will need to (and can) apply for judgement again if he wants to - but hopefully the debtor will by then have been able to come to some repayment arrangement or may have some sort of defence to the claim.

 

Regards, Pam

 

Thanks Pam (I clicked you) ...That's all I needed to know...SO in my POC I will still have to claim back all what's owing on CCJ and have it marked as satisfied and or have it removed from my CRA file..