Cap1 & CCA return

[patrickq1]

LOL at first glance i thought it said RETARDS lol i do feel like one dealing with the damm banks

[monopoly23]

Hi. Today we finally got a response from Vanquis, who we CCA'd at the start of June. They have already comitted an offense.

 

What we recieved is two photocopied sheets of paper, one is A4 sized and the other is a lot smaller. Theres nothing to link the two together and they cant be two sides of one document.

 

The part with the signature on it looks like a mailer, and the only things on that page are 'Your right to cancel' and some contact phone numbers.

 

On the other A4 sized sheet there is Key Financial Information, Other Financial Information, Key Information and Missing Payments details. Then underneath there's Your Declaration (with no signature) and at the bottom there is our pre-typed address next to a note saying Please reply by 11th July 2005. Also hand written date of birth, previous address and annual salary.

 

I dont know how to check if the interest/APR adds up though.

 

We also got a prinout of the long terms and conditions, which are reffered to underneath the signature. These are not the T&C's at the time we took the card though, as the late payments fees etc are £12, and on the 'agreement' it says they are £20.

 

Does anyone have any idea where we stand with Vanquis now, as they DID default and offend.

[patrickq1]

just a thought hopefully its not without prejudice because the smaller page dose sound very interesting i am sure you would like to see this sheet for yourself sounds fishy big sheet and little sheet not too profesional

[davefirewalker]

Monopoly...how old is this?

 

statements like "key financial information" etc didnt come in until 2005(ish)

 

if the debt is older than a couple of years they have not complied with your request....go get them

 

Dave

[JonCris]

pratick 'without prejudice' would not be relevant in these circumstances

[maybelline]

anyone available to PM for advice?

[patrickq1]

wake up tomoz with a clear head may its past midnight lol

[janequeenie]

hi everyone,

 

i have just recieved this mbna cca via lowell financial.only one page recieved and this was scanned so it is a good copy.as can be seen it is mostly illegible with the exception of my name and credit limit which is crystal clear !.strange the credit limit is 2k yet i believe the apr rates refer to 1k 3k etc.

could you give me some idea on a professional response to lowell.it has also arrived beyond the 12 + 2 days but within the 12+2+30.

 

thanks

 

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x175/janequeenie/lowell.jpg

[maybelline]

wake up tomoz with a clear head may its past midnight lol

 

I wish:) had some homework to do on this one!

[monopoly23]

Monopoly...how old is this?

 

statements like "key financial information" etc didnt come in until 2005(ish)

 

if the debt is older than a couple of years they have not complied with your request....go get them

 

Dave

 

Hi. The smaller of the photocopies, which looks like a mailer/application is dated 22/06/05.

Ive also noticed on bills, that we're paying into a repayment option plan, and there is no mention of this or any kind of PPI in what they sent us. It is mentioned in the t&c's but only to explian under what circumstances it will come into effect.

Also, they have sent us their current t&c's, not the ones used at the time the account opened.

 

What I'd like to do is get all PPI payments back, plus charges because Im rubbish at trying to tell whether these 'agreements' are legit or not!

[Peterbard]

I would also have thought that it would be time limited

 

if they have had no contact since 1993 then I would have thought that the statute of limitations would apply? they have 6 years to chase a debt. unless it has been the subject of a ccj

 

rgds

 

Dave

hI Dave

 

JUst to clarify the SL would apply even if the debt was subject to a CCJ

Section 24 stat of limitaions 1980.

 

Best regards

Petr

[RCJ]

Having just had a telephone conversation with someone at Lowell's who informed me that they neither have a copy of my Signed Credit Agreement nor do they need one. I was also told that to get one (From Capital One) would take 90 days. Is this correct?

[Peterbard]

Hi. Today we finally got a response from Vanquis, who we CCA'd at the start of June. They have already comitted an offense.

 

What we recieved is two photocopied sheets of paper, one is A4 sized and the other is a lot smaller. Theres nothing to link the two together and they cant be two sides of one document.

 

The part with the signature on it looks like a mailer, and the only things on that page are 'Your right to cancel' and some contact phone numbers.

 

On the other A4 sized sheet there is Key Financial Information, Other Financial Information, Key Information and Missing Payments details. Then underneath there's Your Declaration (with no signature) and at the bottom there is our pre-typed address next to a note saying Please reply by 11th July 2005. Also hand written date of birth, previous address and annual salary.

 

I dont know how to check if the interest/APR adds up though.

 

We also got a prinout of the long terms and conditions, which are reffered to underneath the signature. These are not the T&C's at the time we took the card though, as the late payments fees etc are £12, and on the 'agreement' it says they are £20.

 

Does anyone have any idea where we stand with Vanquis now, as they DID default and offend.

 

HI

 

When you ask for a copy of your agreement it should include within the body of the document the tems and condiotions laid out in the regulations as per section 2.

I would therefore totally disregard any information headed Tand cs as being an additional information sheet.

A copy of a signature document and a set of Tand cs is simply not enough to satisfy the requirements ofa true copy no matter what the creditors say.

As has been illustrated her many times there is nothing to link the documents even if they were made at the same time.

If the prescribed terms are not part of the signature document (not nesseserally the same page) then they are not in the agreement and it is unenforceable.

As i have said before there is no mention of the term "terms and conditons" in the regulations either as a heading or anything else nor shouold ther be it is not a legal document it is an information sheet it has not been executed and connot be used as part of the agreement.

 

Regards

Peter

[Peterbard]

Having just had a telephone conversation with someone at Lowell's who informed me that they neither have a copy of my Signed Credit Agreement nor do they need one. I was also told that to get one (From Capital One) would take 90 days. Is this correct?

 

Hi

When Lowell took on the account they took on all the responsibilities as creditor see definitions cca1974.

This means they must comply with the request as if they were the creditor and suply the information within the required time frame or be in default.

 

Regards

peter

[monopoly23]

So I should write back saying that what they've sent does not satisfy my request and the account is still in dispute? Are there any other points I should mention apart from

1) The documents they have sent are not linked in any way, and the signature doc is a totally different size than the doc with the financial info on,

2) The t&c's reffered to in the doc are earlier ones to what they sent and are to be disregarded,

3)There are no prescribed terms within the signature doc

4)They are way over the lime limit for providing this info and cant enforce it without a court order anyway?

 

Thanks a lot peter, you're an absolute star!

[Peterbard]

Hi

YOu could quote

Form and content of regulated consumer credit agreements

2.-{1) Subject to paragraph (2) below, documents embodying regulated

consumer credit agreements (other than modifying agreements) shall contain the information set out in Column 2 of Schedule 1to these Regulations in so far as it relates to the type of agreement referred to in Column 1.

And say that the t and cs you sent were not conntained within the agreement but were sepperate to and therere the copy you sent did not contain the prescribed terms. It might be woth mentioning, that it should be noted that the t and cs you sent were not even concurrent with the execution of the agreement.

 

Regards

Peter

[spiritgirl59]

Hi

When Lowell took on the account they took on all the responsibilities as creditor see definitions cca1974.

This means they must comply with the request as if they were the creditor and suply the information within the required time frame or be in default.

 

Regards

peter

 

RCJ this is what I sent to one of my DCAs, H Cohen & Co, when I got that same response as you (courtesy of Rory) :-

 

May I draw your attention to the XXXX paragraph of your letter wherein you state:-

 

“Please be advised that we Howard Cohen & Co are not obliged to furnish you with documentation under a request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, any such request should have been directed to our client, CL Finance Limited”.

 

May I now respectfully draw your attention to the following:-

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974

s.175

Where under this Act a person is deemed to receive a notice or payment as agent of the creditor or owner under the regulated agreement, he shall be deemed to be under a contractual duty to the creditor or owner to transmit the notice, or remit the payment, to him forthwith.

 

You are therefore obliged to pass on my request to your client.

 

 

Love Spiritgirl x

[Peterbard]

RCJ this is what I sent to one of my DCAs, H Cohen & Co, when I got that same response as you (courtesy of Rory) :-

 

 

 

Love Spiritgirl x

Hi

 

Yes alolutely if Lowells are acting as an agent for the creditor but if they have bought the account then they become the creditor.

"

“creditor” means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit agreement, includes the prospective creditor;"

section 189 cca

Regards

Peter

[spiritgirl59]

Thanks Peter

 

LOL these DCAs will try anything to wriggle out of their responsibilities...obviously hoping we will never remind them of them:rolleyes:

...and if Capital One are involved as the OC, the chances of you getting a copy of a properly executed agreement anyway is nil IMHO. I've yet to see anyone on here (myself included) get anything other than photocopied application forms from Capital One RCJ!

 

Good luck, will keep watching!

Love Spiritgirl x

[janequeenie]

hi pb spiritgirl,

 

could you give me assistance on the below as little new to this and i think trying to act on all my dca at once is causing confusion.

 

i have just recieved this mbna cca via lowell financial.only one page recieved and this was scanned so it is a good copy.as can be seen it is mostly illegible with the exception of my name and credit limit which is crystal clear !.strange the credit limit is 2k yet i believe the apr rates refer to 1k 3k etc.

could you give me some idea on a professional response to lowell.it has also arrived beyond the 12 + 2 days but within the 12+2+30.

 

thanks

 

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x175/janequeenie/lowell.jpg

[Peterbard]

Hi

As far as i can see they have not sent all the information they should have( full copy of T+cs cancellation details ,signed statement of account etc.) so they are still in default

I would challenge them on this first

 

Then i would challenge them on the agreement itself and the fact that it does not conform to regulation of form and content as required under section 60 of the act.

All the prescribed terms seem to be there so you would not be able to say tht this was unenforceable however there a large number of discrepancies that could be listed and used to make them have to go to court to get permission to enforce.

 

Regards

Peter

[noomill060]

As Peter says, a copy of a sig document/ application form/mailer and copy of the T&Cs, does not a true copy of a properly executed agreement make.

 

Peter has written confirmation of this from the Secretary of State himself.

[Peterbard]

Thanks Peter

 

LOL these DCAs will try anything to wriggle out of their responsibilities...obviously hoping we will never remind them of them:rolleyes:

...and if Capital One are involved as the OC, the chances of you getting a copy of a properly executed agreement anyway is nil IMHO. I've yet to see anyone on here (myself included) get anything other than photocopied application forms from Capital One RCJ!

 

Good luck, will keep watching!

Love Spiritgirl x

 

Yes i am waiting for one myself from Cap 1. I have just sent the letter threatening them with action to recover all charges on the account,usually stirrs em up.

 

Regards

peter

[janequeenie]

Peter,

 

if they were going to rely on this as the agreement shouldnt it also be signed by them which this isnt unlike others i have recieved off mbna with the stamped signature .

also i find it hard to believe that they would already have given a credit limit of 2k on an application form, if this isnt the case surely thay are not allowed to tamper with the agreement by adding things on that werent their originally.

 

j

[noomill060]

**thinks** BCard have sent me two versions of their T&Cs.

 

Neither of them are the same. One is dated as as 7/99 and the other 8/99.

 

Both came with a letter saying

 

1) herewith are enclosed copy of your executed agreement in the prescribed format. (unsigned photocopy of the T&Cs)

 

2)A copy of your Barclaycard signed Credit Agreement regulated by the CCA 1974, which you signed in agreement that you were legally bound by the Barclaycard Terms and conditions. (my application form/mailshot- no prescribed terms)