Cap1 & CCA return

[Guest The Terminator]

What a thread!! Intresting debate. Its taken me 3 days and i finally get to the end, and it stops!! I know its christmas guys, but please keep up the debate! Like most people who've read this thread, Im Hooked!

Cant wait for the outcome. Keep up the good work.

 

Smoothy

 

Tamadus or Terminator may I PM either of you with a specific question relating to the thread?!

 

Hi smoothy happy new year if I can be of help then please pm me.

[un1boy]

Yes write back stating you will grant them 14 days provided no attempts are made to try & enforce any debt & that if the do all bets are off.

 

Also make it clear that if they don't respond within THEIR deadline you will take any neccessary action you deem appropriate including reporting their criminal conduct regarding non-compliance.

 

Ok, makes prefect sense - why didn't I think of that? lol.

 

I have all the forms to fill in from TS now too, so i will let them know that they will be reported if I don't hear from them.

 

Thanks again

 

PS Happy New Year everyone - hope 2007 brings everything you need to make you happy!

[Guest The Terminator]

I received a letter from MBUSA regarding the default notices I sent to them on the 18th December 2006.The letter goes a little like this:

 

Dear Sir

 

Thank you for your complaint of the 18th December 2006 which is now being investigated and will be reponded to by the 18th January 2007........

 

It's quite obvious that this lot are "braindead" due to the fact that is wasn't a letter of complaint more a list of criminial offences that they have committed and are going to have to explain to a judge.

[ecobabe]

hi, today i received a letter from a large very well known DCA that I CCA'd in July. They couldn't comply and told me in Sept that they couldn't find agreement. I received a letter today stating that they were closing the file on this because "the debt cannot be enforced without the original credit agreement and you have now advised us that you do not acknowledge this debt any further" I would also say that this was for a not inconsiderable amount of money, and they have details of all payments made to it and direct debt mandate. now there is no way that an established company of this size and notoriety would do this if they had the slightest chance of continuing with it to court. So take heart and don't be fobbed off. I'm not posting the name here because I'm not finished with them but if anyone wants to know pm me.

[un1boy]

That's great news Ecobabe, well done!

 

Do CCA requests only apply to active agreements, or can you send a request for a closed agreement?

[e28bigalbexley]

hi, today i received a letter from a large very well known DCA that I CCA'd in July. They couldn't comply and told me in Sept that they couldn't find agreement. I received a letter today stating that they were closing the file on this because "the debt cannot be enforced without the original credit agreement and you have now advised us that you do not acknowledge this debt any further" I would also say that this was for a not inconsiderable amount of money, and they have details of all payments made to it and direct debt mandate. now there is no way that an established company of this size and notoriety would do this if they had the slightest chance of continuing with it to court. So take heart and don't be fobbed off. I'm not posting the name here because I'm not finished with them but if anyone wants to know pm me.

 

 

Well done Ecobabe excellent news.

Was there a default as well if so is your next step to get that remonved?

Well done again, made me smile:D

AL;)

[baileyboy]

Thats great news Ecobabe, nice start to 2007 well done

[ecobabe]

un1boy, it only applies to accounts still being paid, i think, even if it's not the original creditor they need to comply. if account is paid and closed then I think you can only reclaim charges. Bigal, there was no default registered, but there should have been so i think they knew that they were chancing their arm by not having agreement, but it makes it easier from me to deal with. once again I reiterate don't be put off, this proves that we're right about agreement because this was a lot of money that they are writing off. and let's be honest they don't do that lightly!

[un1boy]

Thanks for clarifying that ecobabe!!

[Guest The Terminator]

un1boy, it only applies to accounts still being paid, i think, even if it's not the original creditor they need to comply. if account is paid and closed then I think you can only reclaim charges. Bigal, there was no default registered, but there should have been so i think they knew that they were chancing their arm by not having agreement, but it makes it easier from me to deal with. once again I reiterate don't be put off, this proves that we're right about agreement because this was a lot of money that they are writing off. and let's be honest they don't do that lightly!

 

Well done ecobabe I knew all the reaserch that was done and is still on-going would bear fruit in the end.Oh by the way you couldn't pm me with that DCA as I'm investigating a few at the moment.

[bill-k]

Well done, indeed, Ecobabe. Good start to the year (for you !!)

 

May I also ask you to PM me the DCA & original creditor ?

 

Thanks a lot, matey.

 

Bill.

[tamadus]

We also have a request with Barclaycard that the 1 month deadline expires at the end of this week. Can you let us know at some point what you will be doing so we can try and understand our next actions. For the moment we will be writing to warn about the failures next weekend. Appreciate you may not want to publish actions so will it be OK to pm you Tamadeus when we get to the next stage?

 

 

Sure you can Jones I'll be happy to help

[tamadus]

hi, today i received a letter from a large very well known DCA that I CCA'd in July. They couldn't comply and told me in Sept that they couldn't find agreement. I received a letter today stating that they were closing the file on this because "the debt cannot be enforced without the original credit agreement and you have now advised us that you do not acknowledge this debt any further" I would also say that this was for a not inconsiderable amount of money, and they have details of all payments made to it and direct debt mandate. now there is no way that an established company of this size and notoriety would do this if they had the slightest chance of continuing with it to court. So take heart and don't be fobbed off. I'm not posting the name here because I'm not finished with them but if anyone wants to know pm me.

 

Great news Ecobabe, nice to hear that somebody has managed to pin one of these down:D

 

PM coming your way shortly

[pugsley]

Moorcroft DCA have two of my debts back to the original companies so far, they just close the account after my requests for the credit agreement.

[Mike220359]

That's great news Ecobabe, well done!

 

Do CCA requests only apply to active agreements, or can you send a request for a closed agreement?

 

Unfortunatly they only apply to accounts that and I precise subsections 77 and 78 of the act that 'are in debt', if the account is not extant or dormant, the bank has no duty to supply the agreement. Unless you can rember the agreement not complying with section 61 as I can with acouple of mine.

 

Remember the application forms enclosed in magazines, my daughter had one in her Nursing magazine the other day from a well known bank. Only one signature box! Only a small thing I know but enough to nulify the agreement.

 

Mike

[un1boy]

Unfortunatly they only apply to accounts that and I precise subsections 77 and 78 of the act that 'are in debt', if the account is not extant or dormant, the bank has no duty to supply the agreement. Unless you can rember the agreement not complying with section 61 as I can with acouple of mine.

 

thanks mate

 

Remember the application forms enclosed in magazines, my daughter had one in her Nursing magazine the other day from a well known bank. Only one signature box! Only a small thing I know but enough to nulify the agreement.

 

Mike

 

Good point!

[joneshousehold]

Has there been any developments on the agreement versus application argument? I have been watching this thread for a while and have even read it several times. Whilst some people say an application isn't an agreement I am not clear that this has been challenged at all. Have I missed anything?

 

In addition I have a copy of a document that says it is an agreement regulated under CCA 1974 but the small print says

 

'Please issue to me a *** *** Credit Card and PIN. I confirm the information I have given is true and complete' etc.

 

Later on it says I agree to be bound by the terms and conditions if my application is accepted. This reads more like an application than an agreement. A standard agreement would normally say that they agree to issue a card, pay suppliers etc and I agree to repay the debt in the manner prescribed. Have I got this confused somehow?

 

The document is signed and dated by me and signed by another person, not in the requisite box but I assume this doesn't make a lot of difference. It has a right to cancel box. When I first saw it I thought it looked fine. I came to look at it again because they have said I agreed to them contacting me by phone (just the 4 times today so far) but I was not convinced. Usually if you challenge these people they back down but it seems not in this case. A closer inspection has now made me question the whole document, especially as they have made me mad.

 

Reference is also made to notes on the reverse of the form, (which I think is supplied as a separate page to me now) on the monthly statements, financial and related particulars and use of information. However the front of the form shows different sections in the terms and conditions as if there was a separate schedule for the terms and conditions at the time I applied that I have not had a copy of. This was only supplied following a DPA request and I was not going to bother with a CCA request as it seemed pointless but I am not so sure now.

 

Hope this isn't too long and rambling a post and any thoughts of others would be welcome.

[tamadus]

Has there been any developments on the agreement versus application argument? I have been watching this thread for a while and have even read it several times. Whilst some people say an application isn't an agreement I am not clear that this has been challenged at all. Have I missed anything?

 

In addition I have a copy of a document that says it is an agreement regulated under CCA 1974 but the small print says

 

'Please issue to me a *** *** Credit Card and PIN. I confirm the information I have given is true and complete' etc.

 

Later on it says I agree to be bound by the terms and conditions if my application is accepted. This reads more like an application than an agreement. A standard agreement would normally say that they agree to issue a card, pay suppliers etc and I agree to repay the debt in the manner prescribed. Have I got this confused somehow?

 

The document is signed and dated by me and signed by another person, not in the requisite box but I assume this doesn't make a lot of difference. It has a right to cancel box. When I first saw it I thought it looked fine. I came to look at it again because they have said I agreed to them contacting me by phone (just the 4 times today so far) but I was not convinced. Usually if you challenge these people they back down but it seems not in this case. A closer inspection has now made me question the whole document, especially as they have made me mad.

 

Reference is also made to notes on the reverse of the form, (which I think is supplied as a separate page to me now) on the monthly statements, financial and related particulars and use of information. However the front of the form shows different sections in the terms and conditions as if there was a separate schedule for the terms and conditions at the time I applied that I have not had a copy of. This was only supplied following a Data Protection Act request and I was not going to bother with a CCA request as it seemed pointless but I am not so sure now.

 

Hope this isn't too long and rambling a post and any thoughts of others would be welcome.

 

MY personal opinion (and others disagree with me ) is that as long as the application form carries all the required details and summary boxes then it can double up as the main document of a credit agreement. Terms and conditions at the time of signing are also part of it and should have also been sent. Any copies should be legible. The terms and conditions they print on statements can only be applicable if they supply a copy of the ORIGINAL terms and conditions which is what allows them to alter them.

 

An application form will NOT be classed as part of the agreement unless it carries all the stipulated components. I have one which a certain company claim to be the agreement but carries none of the items required. Hence I am persuing them for non compliance.

 

I am also making official complaints with TS about 1 call a day from another company who refuse to acknowledge my letters let alone answer the questions in them. I consider daily calls from India a breach of my privacy, harassement, and it raises the question of them passing my personal data to a company outside the EU let alone the UK. I am convinced that is an offence under the DPA without my explicit permission.

 

2007 is certainly going to get a lot warmer as I am lighting a lot of fires.

[Guest The Terminator]

Hi Joneshousehold

 

I brought this point up a while back and I beleive I posted the definitions of an application form and an agreement.They are defined in the Oxford dictionary as two completly different things so an application cannot be an agreement and visa versa.As ecobabe has proved today the original executed agreement as per the CCA(1974).Tamadus made a point in this thread a while back what if the application was unsuccessful an unscrupulous lender could use that application form and claim a debt exist's when it doesn't.What the financial institutions are trying to use are the regulations but unfortunatly the regulations cannot overide stature and as it say's in the Act"original agreement".

 

Hope this helps a little

 

The Terminator

[Guest The Terminator]

MY personal opinion (and others disagree with me ) is that as long as the application form carries all the required details and summary boxes then it can double up as the main document of a credit agreement. Terms and conditions at the time of signing are also part of it and should have also been sent. Any copies should be legible. The terms and conditions they print on statements can only be applicable if they supply a copy of the ORIGINAL terms and conditions which is what allows them to alter them.

 

I'm one of the ones who disagree

 

I am also making official complaints with TS about 1 call a day from another company who refuse to acknowledge my letters let alone answer the questions in them. I consider daily calls from India a breach of my privacy, harassement, and it raises the question of them passing my personal data to a company outside the EU let alone the UK. I am convinced that is an offence under the Data Protection Act without my explicit permission.

 

Will look that up for you and my gut feeling is that you are correct

2007 is certainly going to get a lot warmer as I am lighting a lot of fires.

 

And I've stoked up three already this week on the D&B forum and its only 4 days in:D Its going to get a lot hotter in the coming weeks.

[tamadus]

I know you disagree Terminator

[TideTurner]

There was no agreement for my mortgage!

 

When I asked (4 years ago) for the authority upon which they relied for providing my personal information to third parties, they provided four pieces of paper which they claim was the mortgage agreement entitled 'Application' and pointed out the clause that they could provide my information 'for the purposes of obtaining credit references for the provision of a mortgage or loan'.

 

I do not see this as an agreement, rather an application. An agreement should have followed once they were satisfied they were happy with my credit. Nowadays, such paperwork would simply be a an electronic application to the Credit Reference Agencies. If the result was negative, no agreement would have been offered, if good an agreement would have been drawn up and forwarded for signing.

 

This is simply mal-administration, given the growth in the marketplace at the time.

 

Sorry, they don't have it.

[me_n_my_kids]

If, as a response to a cca request, you receive a photocopy of your application form, are we any clearer yet on weather this means they have compied or if you should still carry on pushing for something else? I have recieved 3 today and clueless what to do with them:( they were all received, however, after the companies had defaulted

[GSMGuy]

Surely a copy of an application form can not be a credit agreement - UNLESS it has been signed by the credit company, eg when you get a copy of your app sent back to you after the loan has started, and it has been signed by the credit company?

 

And - Just a quick one on CCA requests guys, I have used the search function yo no avail, and cannot for the life of me find a CCA Template Letter... Any pointers???

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Fullyskinted]

If, as a response to a cca request, you receive a photocopy of your application form, are we any clearer yet on weather this means they have compied or if you should still carry on pushing for something else? I have recieved 3 today and clueless what to do with them:( they were all received, however, after the companies had defaulted

 

I would assume that although they have defaulted on the timescale(s) they have issued you with sufficient proof of ownership of the debt (assuming the copies are ligeible, accurate and carry your signature).

 

Ive just sent of three CCAs myself, so Im waiting with baited breath!