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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
    • well post it here as a text in a the msg reply half of it is blanked out. dx  
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Cap1 & CCA return


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Many thanks for the reply. Very much appreciated :)

 

We had no cancellation details posted or delivered to us. We were just given the 4th page of an agreement (unexecuted agreement) with the "You will have for a short time a right to cancel" notice at the top.

 

British gas delivered the "goods" 3 days later on the 8th of April 04 .... and they had finished installing everything 8 days after the initial loan agreement was signed. To be honest, had I of had a bit longer to muse, I would have probably gone done the route of getting the original boiler fixed, and not committed us to £5000 worth of debit. T'was all very quick .... and my brain at the time was not! :grin:

 

The debt is now being dealt with by a DCA / solicitors called Howard Cohen. A CCJ has already been granted, and they've taken a charging order out against the property (I never received a copy of that by the way .... even though I'm mortgaged on the house). The debt was in my wifes name.

 

So is it correct to assume it's too late to go down the CCA route? If not, who should I send the request to? First National Tricity or Howard Cohen?

 

I'm in the process of writing to British Gas now regarding the bills/boiler and it not being fit for purpose. So touch wood!

 

 

 

 

Have now drained the tank by the way .... not a spider in sight ! :eek:

 

...... which is now leaving me wondering whether we have something bigger up in the dark eating them all !!! Might be a case for Mulder and Scully :D

 

 

 

Thanks for your time

 

 

Nyhm

 

Perhaps you have a BG Engineer still lurking up there somewhere, must be a bit peckish by now...

 

As far as the CCJ is concerned you could apply to have the judgement set aside, but not sure what happens in a case where a charge has already been placed on the property. Might be a good idea to start a thread on this and hopefully then you can find out exactly what your options are. I would definitely ask for a copy of the CCA anyway for future reference also if they installed the boiler that quickly, surely you weren't given the correct period of time in which to be able to cancel the agreement anyway? Good luck with the complaint to BG.

 

Magda

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Perhaps you have a BG Engineer still lurking up there somewhere, must be a bit peckish by now...

 

 

 

lol !!! He could well be still up there!

 

 

Have started a new thread here .. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/195291-consumer-credit-act-agreements.html#post2115383

 

 

And thanks for your advice Magda :)

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They've pinched your news for their news section.

You're getting so damn famous! :cool:

 

That was a bit cheeky - I'm assuming they didn't have your permission, Paul?

 

There was an interesting bit about credit card cheques and increased limits though;

April 17, 2009

Sending unsolicited credit card cheques or increasing credit limits could make entire loan unenforceable.

 

Have you recently received a letter through the post from your lender offering you increased credit limits or providing you with credit card cheques you never asked for? If so, and if your original loan agreement was taken out before April 2007 you may well find that the agreement is unenforceable.

 

It is an increasingly common and odious practise to encourage us borrowers to spend more at this penny pinching time of recession, when we should, on the contrary be consolidating, not increasing, our debt. But where the banks are breaking the law is by not sending out a fresh credit agreement for the customer to sign agreeing to the increased limit or the cheques. This is a requirement set out in the Consumer Credit Act but as with many rules and regulations surrounding the Act, is routinely flouted by the lender.

 

This irresponsible lending echoes the mistakes made by banks eager to make a profit by lending to sub-prime borrowers in the boom years - a practise that is widely accepted as the cause of the Credit Crunch. Lenders are only deepening this crisis by attempting to get potentially vulnerable consumers to dig themselves into an even deeper pit of debt. Research shows that many consumers believe that since the lender has offered a new more generous credit limit without this being requested, then it must be affordable and within their means

 

Savvy borrowers should challenge their loan agreements through a non fee paying Claims Management Company like Fair Judgement as soon as they receive unsolicited credit card cheques or an increase on their credit limit.

 

 

 

Hmmm, wonder how much merit that approach has? What do our legal eagles think?

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I'm not sure if they do need permission once a story is in the public domain, so to speak. Would have thought it at least polite to try to contact someone though if you are using their name in your promotional material....

 

Cheeky b's or not, though, I notice they are a no-win-no-fee company and do not take a percentage of any commission. I've been looking for one of these for ages - does anyone have any experience of Fair Judgement or any other company that they can recommend?

 

I can't make any headway with my creds and the level of harrassment is getting ridiculous now; I've written 10 letters this week alone and another four have arrived today that require a response. Think a solicitor's letter would bear more weight than a letter from a debtor - especially if they start making noises about a harrassment counterclaim.

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You will like this one.

 

Other half took out a loan 69 months ago for £15000.

She has been paying just under 300 quid a month

 

So payed just over £20500

 

Worked out that £15000 at 9.5% APR over 69 months is £19586 so basically paid loan of and they owe her over a grand and ther is still 15 monthly payments due.

 

On the credit agreement they have put total amount payable is just over £25K....

 

Going bank tomomorow and going to go ape!!!

 

If they do not play ball is there anything in the CCA that says I can get me money back...or can I threaten them with Court action.

 

One last thing this account has never missed a payment

 

HAK

 

This is now on this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/195950-you-have-got-look.html#post2123002

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Hi All,

I started reading this thread a couple of weeks ago. Im on post 2980 and catching up fast - see you in 2011!!!!:lol::lol:

 

Is your head spinning yet?

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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As I understand it - you are either the right side of the regs or the wrong side - so in absolute terms there is no de minimis - not sure a judge would see it that way - however I think de-minimis applies to loan more than credit cards.

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By what margin would the figures quoted in a fixed sum loan have to be mis-stated to make the loan unenforceable?

 

What sum/percentage would be considered deminus?

 

It's the interest calculation that is permitted to be de minimis, enforceability would depend what other figures were incorrect. I think approx 1% either way is the current accepted figure on the interest calculation.

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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It's the interest calculation that is permitted to be de minimis, enforceability would depend what other figures were incorrect. I think approx 1% either way is the current accepted figure on the interest calculation.

 

 

Hi

I haven'yt seen the allowaable cariation figure for interest, the perameters for APR are set as 1% below or .1% above the stated figure according to the regs and i suppose that this would also indirectly affect the leeway on the interst as the rate,as it could be assertained by recoving the other items frome the TCC.

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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In the case of the APR in an agreement, there is a statutory margin of error allowed, which (I think) varies according to when it was signed. Peter Bard is the unchallengable expert on that.

 

In the case of a DN, Woodchester v Swayne implied that there might be a de minimis margin for the arrears amount but that the error in that case was clearly not de minimis. That case involved an error of about a third over, but no threshold was indicated, so there could be a grey area.

 

Rankine was based in part that there was a wide margin of error and that the possibility of charges etc being disallowed was not sufficient grounds for challenge of a DN. However, that is not necessarily consistent with Woodchester, which would trump Rankine (Court of Appeal beats High Court).

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there are three Court of Appeal cases which have said de-minimis does not apply in cases where there is a breach of a prescribed term - now off to work but if anybody would like a copy just let me know

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My bad.

 

Woodchester only applies to Default Notices and we are talking about agreements.

 

"Not in the slightest mis-stated" is the rule for the prescribed terms themselves.

 

Not quite as poetic (or as drastic) as "... if thou cut'st more or less than a just pound, be it but so much as makes it light or heavy in the substance, or the division of the twentieth part of one poor scruple, nay, if the scale do turn but in the estimation of a hair, thou diest and all thy goods are confiscate" but the principle (for the prescribed terms, at least) is much the same.

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So were does it actual say if the APR is dramatical incorrect the agreement is unenforcable..

 

HAK

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:oops:

 

Clearly, I have long since got confused about what the original question was.

 

I'll get my coat.

 

Think I'll join you - Portia :p

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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So were does it actual say if the APR is dramatical incorrect the agreement is unenforcable..

 

HAK

 

Hi Hak

 

The interst is only a prescribed term on a running account credit agreement and is variable (usually)

On a running account credit agreement the interst is charged on the debit ballance a month after the transaction takes place so any error in the execution of the agreement would not be apparrent untill a month later so improper execution cannot be proven.

It would be different of course if it were a fixed sum agrement because all of the repayments and other terms are set at the execution of the agreement but as i said unfortunately interst is not a prescribed term on a fixed sum agreement.

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Sorry to ask a question that has no doubt been asked a few hundred times before but ive tired trading through all 15,000+ posts and my head is going to explode ha ha

 

in short how do i know if once recieved my CCA is enforcable or unenforcable? i fulfill everything else on ammount still owing and time it was taken out, i will be writing to black horse tomorrow to ask for the credit agreement but if they do reply with a copy of it what do i need to be looking out for that would make it un0enforcable and what do i need to do after its been identified as unenforcable?

 

many many thanks

 

martin

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