Cap1 & CCA return

[Viscount Stair]

Based on... ???

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/enterprise_act/oft854.pdf

 

My memory did trick me in one respect: the old law only applies to agreements completed before 6 April 2008. However, since the new law (though untested) is drafted much more widely than the old law I don't think that is much of a loss.

[Viscount Stair]

Another section 140A-140C idea for people to chew over:

 

I have gleaned from reading to get up to speed that one problem is that, if a CCA compliant agreement turns up (however late), then it becomes fully enforceable again, including any interest etc racked up during the delay.

 

However, it occurs to me that this may be a case for ss140A-140C.

 

The OFT guidance on Unfair Relationships indicates at paragraph 4.29 the OFT's view (albeit in relation to its collective enforcement powers under the Enterprise Act rather than the Unfair Relationships provisions themselves) that business practices by lenders in breach of legal requirements could be regarded as giving rise to an unfair relationship. Sections 77-78 are included in the non-exhaustive list of relevant provisions at paragraph 4.31.

 

Failure to comply with section 77 or section 78 is "any other thing done (or not done) by or on behalf of the lender either before or after the making of the agreement or any related agreement" and the court has the discretion to "reduce or discharge any sum payable by the borrower (or a surety) by virtue of the agreement or any related agreement".

 

So, there does appear to me to be the basis of an argument that the court has the power to disallow interest etc for the period of default, even if a compliant agreement turns up at the eleventh hour.

 

Neither this nor my earlier suggestions are anything more than ideas to chew over. I'd be interested in others' ideas.

[lexis200]

I have gleaned from reading to get up to speed that one problem is that, if a CCA compliant agreement turns up (however late), then it becomes fully enforceable again, including any interest etc racked up during the delay.

I thought that when they didn't furnish you with a valid CCA/don't have one at all, that the account was therefore in dispute as they have defaulted on their duties, and as such can't add interest/charges etc?

 

I'm sure I read on threads knocking about that if you stop payments, then somewhere along the line an enforceable agreement turns up, even though the agreement is now enforceable, you would only be at the stage you were when they first defaulted - effectively meaning that the account (should) stand still from the moment they default to the moment they produce something enforceable.

 

Have I got this muddled up with something else, coz having read this I'm a bit more concerned than I was 10 minutes ago?

[swt61]

I thought that when they didn't furnish you with a valid CCA/don't have one at all, that the account was therefore in dispute as they have defaulted on their duties, and as such can't add interest/charges etc?

 

I'm sure I read on threads knocking about that if you stop payments, then somewhere along the line an enforceable agreement turns up, even though the agreement is now enforceable, you would only be at the stage you were when they first defaulted - effectively meaning that the account (should) stand still from the moment they default to the moment they produce something enforceable.

 

Have I got this muddled up with something else, coz having read this I'm a bit more concerned than I was 10 minutes ago?

 

Wow this is getting me all confused too:confused:

 

Surely f they cannot come up with te agreement in the allowed time by law surely there must be a law to say that then cannot then enforce it a sthey have been given all the legal time to do so??

 

Simon

[lexis200]

Unfortunately Simon they can enforce it the moment a valid agreement turns up - so much for time limits eh:(

 

My concern is more to do with whether or not they can carry on with adding charges etc when there is not an enforceable agreement, then they find one and you're suddenly liable for a much bigger debt. I didn't think that was something they could do.

[Viscount Stair]

Look, in one sense, I hope I've got the wrong end of the stick. But I'm pretty sure I've seen some posts about agreements turning up - I think it's only a problem for the ones that had gone missing, rather than the ones that exist but don't contain prescribed terms.

 

What section 78(6) says is that the agreement cannot be enforced while the creditor is in default. Unlike some of the 2006 amendments, it does not say anything about interest and charges stopping during the default as well.

 

I am still very much learning here, so older and wiser hands may be able to clarify this.

[swt61]

Unfortunately Simon they can enforce it the moment a valid agreement turns up - so much for time limits eh:(

 

My concern is more to do with whether or not they can carry on with adding charges etc when there is not an enforceable agreement, then they find one and you're suddenly liable for a much bigger debt. I didn't think that was something they could do.

 

 

MM yes I understand where your coming from but I think its still unfair they were given a chance & failed!!

 

They are so hot to chance but seem very laid back in dealing with CCA requests in my view,

 

Kind regards,

 

 

 

Simon:D

[lexis200]

Just because you're learning doesn't mean you're wrong;)

 

I do wonder though if I've got confused with the difference between a default and a dispute...

 

Just reading your last post, you mention the creditor being in default, which is obviously right. However, when they've got bumpkiss in the way of an agreement for me, I've written with a formal complaint and put the account in dispute.

 

Maybe if they've just defaulted on their requirements and it isn't actually in dispute then they can add charges etc, but when the account is formally disputed they can't?

 

I've just remembered a letter OH had from Halifax, where they stated although they had defaulted they could still apply charges/interest, but they were then at pains to say that they didn't consider the account in dispute, straight after this sentence. I didn't think much of it then, but I suppose it could be because if it's in dispute they really can't do anything?

 

I do hope someone can set me straight on this, it's making my brain ache:D

[lexis200]

MM yes I understand where your coming from but I think its still unfair they were given a chance & failed!!

 

Absolutely it is!!! Would they just let us get away with it if the situation was reversed? Would they my bum:)

[swt61]

Absolutely it is!!! Would they just let us get away with it if the situation was reversed? Would they my bum:)

 

Yeah wpould they Bum Bloody right:-x

 

Mate you any good on working out something for me if I p.m you with some stuff as i anm thinking of V.T a H.P agreement but I keep getting my figures mudlled:confused:

 

I have all the documents here and I need an answer rapid really

 

Thanks,

 

simon:D

[lexis200]

More than happy to try and help anyone, but seeing as I don't know what V.T is standing for, I might not be your best option;)

 

If I can help though, I've got no issues with trying:)

[Viscount Stair]

... and it is precisely because it so unfair that I am suggesting sections 140A-140C come into play.

[lexis200]

Right, I see what you're getting at with those sections.

 

Sounds good to me, but having read back a few posts I don't think I'll be jumping in to be one of the first to try it out - I'm far too much of a wuss for that:D

[gaz2006]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...lp-wanted.html

Ive posted a link here can the experts on here give me some quick advice on whether agreement is enforceable as I think ive gone into wrong section ie general how do I change it ? Or can someone change for me regards G

[foolishgirl]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...lp-wanted.html

Ive posted a link here can the experts on here give me some quick advice on whether agreement is enforceable as I think ive gone into wrong section ie general how do I change it ? Or can someone change for me regards G

 

Click on the triangle at the bottom left of your post & ask a mod. if they would move it for you Gaz

[Viscount Stair]

Right, I see what you're getting at with those sections.

 

Sounds good to me, but having read back a few posts I don't think I'll be jumping in to be one of the first to try it out - I'm far too much of a wuss for that:D

Point taken entirely - I am far more courageous hiding behind a posting ID talking about this in theory than I expect to be when push comes to shove for real!!!

 

But, that said, what I'm suggesting about using sections 140A-140C when an agreement turns up late isn't something you would need or want to do pre-emptively. It's intended as a helpful suggestion about how to react to a problem that though rare does seem to be real in at least a few cases and is a potential risk in many cases.

 

Also, my suggestions are intended to promote a wider discussion about the possible uses of section 140A-140C. Maybe many of us would be too much of a wuss to try things out but I'm not sure about how keen the industry would be to test out some well put together arguments either.

 

Open to the floor ...

 

PS If this would be better as a new thread, then maybe one can be set up.

[42man]

Viscount this is your original thread here on Amex, or start a new one on your own situation if necessary...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/amex/162268-viscount-stair-amex.html

[gaz2006]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...lp-wanted.html

Ive posted a link here can the experts on here give me some quick advice on whether agreement is enforceable as I think ive gone into wrong section ie general how do I change it ? Or can someone change for me regards G

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/169592-urgent-help-wanted.html

now in different section but anyone on here tell me if this is enforceable ? Regards G

[paulrob2808]

I think this is very interesting, i have been looking at sites about claiming but they charge so much and some want 30% of the claim. i would end up in more debt than i had before. has anyone made a successful claim or will they fight you in court. paul

[car2403]

I think this is very interesting, i have been looking at sites about claiming but they charge so much and some want 30% of the claim. i would end up in more debt than i had before. has anyone made a successful claim or will they fight you in court. paul

 

Don't pay them.

 

There's nothing they can do that you can't anyway. Plus, if you have to go to Court, YOU have to take the CREDITOR to Court - that company can't "do" it for you, and most I've seen won't attend Court... they expect you to do that yourself.

 

What are people paying them for, when there's enough info on this forum to get you through it on your own. Don't believe me? See all my threads - there's a link in my signature to them - and you will see it is possible. Everything I've learnt has come from this site. My debt is now £15k lighter and I only have 1 credit card, which I'm more than happy with.

 

Once you've cleared your CCA issues, you can start on your charges/PPI claims, of which mine are underway.

 

[paulrob2808]

Thanks for that chris, would you be able to guide me through the proses as i dont have a clue about how or what to do, i am also worried that the card company will get nasty if i start a claim. I am with egg at the moment with a 0% deal on balance.

[car2403]

Thanks for that chris, would you be able to guide me through the proses as i dont have a clue about how or what to do, i am also worried that the card company will get nasty if i start a claim. I am with egg at the moment with a 0% deal on balance.

 

Try having a read through the links in my signature - see my post above - for a starting point.

 

What you need to do is start a thread of your own, (also see my sig for how) then post you're questions in that thread. This way, we can give you specific advice on your individual case.

 

If you're willing to listen to advice, ask, what will sometimes seem like dum questions to you, (there's never a dum question!) and follow through, you CAN do this on your own...

[Josie8]

Thanks for that chris, would you be able to guide me through the proses as i dont have a clue about how or what to do, i am also worried that the card company will get nasty if i start a claim. I am with egg at the moment with a 0% deal on balance.

 

 

Well that seems to be a very sweet deal. Normally its becuase the interest rates are skyhigh that people come to CAG for help:confused:

[Having_A_Knightmare]

I can see another great debate on the following subject.

 

Many Credit Card credit agreement say for credit limit:

This will be determined from time to time etc.

 

1983 CCA regulations say:

 

Credit Limit

 

 

A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or there is no credit limit.

 

Writing time to time is not a manner to be determined if you know were I am coming from.

 

If they put for the prescribed term for interest rate “interested will be determined from time to time" it would make the agreement unenforceable.

 

Any comments

 

HAK

Edited November 22, 2008 by Having_A_Knightmare
typo

[paulrob2808]

hi, i have a quick question. I have a card that i took out about oct 07 and transfered a large balance to it. am i still able to try and make a claim under the CCA or does this card come under a newer CCA which means i have no case. thank you