Cap1 & CCA return

[ladybird17]

hey ho - health & safety and peanut allergies follow me everywhere I go to try & escape!

[progenic7]

[zubo]

Hi Gang

 

Had a cagger on another thread quizzing me, quite rightly, as to where in the regs it says that non supply of CCA after 30 days is a criminal offence punishable by upto £2500 or 3 months imprisonment.

 

I have read it but cannot find it in this thread...

 

anyone???

 

Z

[paulwlton]

SCHEDULE 1

PROSECUTION AND PUNISHMENT OF OFFENCES

Section 167

1

2

3

4

Section

Offence

Mode of

prosecution

Imprisonment or

fine

7 Knowingly or recklessly giving

false information to Director.

(a) Summarily. [The prescribed

sum].

(b) On indictment. 2 years or a fine or

both.

39(1) Engaging in activities requiring

a licence when not a licensee.

(a) Summarily. [The prescribed

sum].

(b) On indictment. 2 years or a fine or

both.

39(2) Carrying on business under a

name not specified in licence.

(a) Summarily. [The prescribed

sum].

(b) On indictment. 2 years or a fine or

both.

39(3) Failure to notify changes in

registered particulars.

(a) Summarily. [The prescribed

sum].

(b) On indictment. 2 years or a fine or

both.

45 Advertising credit where goods

etc not available for cash.

(a) Summarily. [The prescribed

sum].

(b) On indictment. 2 years or a fine or

both.

46(1) False or misleading

advertisements.

(a) Summarily. [The prescribed

sum].

(b) On indictment. 2 years or a fine or

both.

47(1) Advertising infringements. (a) Summarily. [The prescribed

sum].

(b) On indictment. 2 years or a fine or

Butterworths Direct - Print Page 137 of 160

http://wellington.butterworths.co.uk/wbs/NETbos.dll?POView?sk=AAFIMJMA&bk=... 22/12/2001

both.

49(1) Canvassing debtor-creditor

agreements off trade premises.

(a) Summarily. [The prescribed

sum].

(b) On indictment. 1 year or a fine or

both.

49(2) Soliciting debtor-creditor

agreements during visits made

in response to previous oral

requests.

(a) Summarily. [The prescribed

sum].

(b) On indictment. 1 year or a fine or

both.

50(1) Sending circulars to minors. (a) Summarily. [The prescribed

sum].

(b) On indictment. 1 year or a fine or

both.

51(1) Supplying unsolicited credittokens.

(a) Summarily. [The prescribed

sum].

(b) On indictment. 2 years or a fine or

both.

77(4) Failure of creditor under fixedsum

credit agreement to supply

copies of documents etc.

Summarily. [Level 4 on the

standard scale.]

78(6) Failure of creditor under

running-account credit

agreement to supply copies of

documents etc.

Summarily. [Level 4 on the

standard scale.]

79(3) Failure of owner under

consumer hire agreement to

supply copies of documents

etc.

Summarily. [Level 4 on the

standard scale.]

80(2) Failure to tell creditor or owner

whereabouts of goods.

Summarily. [Level 3 on the

standard scale.]

[Guest willowb]

Sorry to butt in but I've just come across this amazing post in the welcome forum and have invited the OP to come and tell the full story here.....

 

well the first thing that I have to say is THANKYOU!!! to the people that heve given information on this site. We have between my husband and I a considerable amount of alleged debt between 16 credit cards. One of the main companies that we had trouble with was mbna who between 5 cards were taking us to court with 5 different cases and were applying for 3 charging orders. Due to my husband being severley depressed and during the time of the debt collection agencys contacting us constantly his medication was increased 6 fold. We have some agreements with some of the cards, who I am now going to chase up as to whether I actually have a debt with them, this is by the by.We had court papers sent to us for CCJ's, we didnt know what to do so we didnt defend them although we didn't admit them either we did send back a statement of incomings and outgoings, we then had a letter stating that they were going to apply for a charging order against our property. There were 3 in total one for 2999.00 which we paid, 1 was for nearly 12 thousand pounds and another for over 15 thousand pounds they took us to court and had the final charging orders agreed in december 2006 and february 2007, although the judge did order that the paperwork that I had asked for way back in july 2006 be provided for the court and ourselves DL&C didnt provide the correct paperwork at that time and hadn't provided it to us within the pescribed time so the judge discharged tyhe charging orders savins us when we sold our property 27 thousand pounds !!! What a result..We wouldn't have known about section 78 [1] and [6] without you.

 

If anyone needs any help or advice then We are here for you I may not know all the answers but will try to find out Dont be frightened by DCA as they only rely on the fact that the consumer doesn't know the laws that can protect them and they never follow the laws that they are willing to use against you.

 

£27,000:o

 

Wxxx

[un1boy]

That is great result!

[maybelline]

fantastic!

[dl&c winner]

Basic Account Customer

 

Join Date: Mar 2007

Posts: 1

 

 

we beat hillesden securities / mbna/ dl&c

well the first thing that I have to say is THANKYOU!!! to the people that heve given information on this site. We have between my husband and I a considerable amount of alleged debt between 16 credit cards. One of the main companies that we had trouble with was mbna who between 5 cards were taking us to court with 5 different cases and were applying for 3 charging orders. Due to my husband being severley depressed and during the time of the debt collection agencys contacting us constantly his medication was increased 6 fold. We have some agreements with some of the cards, who I am now going to chase up as to whether I actually have a debt with them, this is by the by.We had court papers sent to us for CCJ's, we didnt know what to do so we didnt defend them although we didn't admit them either we did send back a statement of incomings and outgoings, we then had a letter stating that they were going to apply for a charging order against our property. There were 3 in total one for 2999.00 which we paid, 1 was for nearly 12 thousand pounds and another for over 15 thousand pounds they took us to court and had the final charging orders agreed in december 2006 and february 2007, although the judge did order that the paperwork that I had asked for way back in july 2006 be provided for the court and ourselves DL&C didnt provide the correct paperwork at that time and hadn't provided it to us within the pescribed time so the judge discharged tyhe charging orders savins us when we sold our property 27 thousand pounds !!! What a result..We wouldn't have known about section 78 [1] and [6] without you.

 

If anyone needs any help or advice then We are here for you I may not know all the answers but will try to find out Dont be frightened by DCA as they only rely on the fact that the consumer doesn't know the laws that can protect them and they never follow the laws that they are willing to use against you.

vbrep_register("687939")

[elizabeth1]

Isn't that lovely to see people winning!!

 

CAG is a wonderful place for seeing people win and get back what was theirs!!

[joneshousehold]

Welcome dl&c winner, good to see such a good success. It always warms the heart to see someone led into dire straits by the debt collection tactics fight back and win the day. Well done to the judge as well for insisting on the paperwork.

[pudsters14]

Hi guys, got a reply off Argos 2day with regards to the CCA request. Cannot get my computer to upload it so will tell you what sections it has got... Clearly states in large writing YOUR APPLICATION FOR THE ARGOS CARD but then above the personal details it also says Credit Agreement Regulated by the consumer credit act 1974. It has got the following sections, About you... all my personal details.. about your employment... about your finances (which is for your bank acct details) additional card details. then its got about your acct... PPI box, DPA details, signature box, right to cancel, their signature and date etc. Underneath it has got a tear off slip which says to make your 5% min payment by DD and then a standard DD form. There is no mention to APR i notice and I didnt tick the PPI box, it was preprinted... do you think I can dispute this for lack of prescribed terms... APR missing?

[pudsters14]

Just noticed as well no mention of credit limit or how it will be determined, the application form is from 2003...

[InKogneeToh]

Hi Pudsters

 

Basic check:

 

If all of the following are on the doc. it 'may' be enforceable:

 

Credit limit (or statement as to how it is to be determined/notified to you

 

Interest Rate

 

Rate and frequency of payments

 

 

If one or all of these is missing = totally unenforceable!

 

As it's obviously an application form, and if you think it fits into the 'unenforceable' category I would write to them again, just to be on the safe side, to give them a final chance to provide a proper copy agreement (you don't want them springing one on you at later date!).

 

Something like the following - amended to suit:

 

I refer to your letter dated xx xxx

 

I note that you have sent me a copy of the application form for this account (and a copy of your terms and conditions.)

 

However, on the xxx xxx I made a written request for a copy of the executed agreement under s77/78 CCA. This letter was sent by recorded delivery and signed for at your office on xxxxx.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

(Please note that your company is now in default as this request was not complied with within 12 working days as prescribed by the CCA, and that you have also committed a criminal offence by exceeding the further one month statutory time limit.)

 

I now require that you provide me with a copy of the correct document, or your written acknowledgement that you are unable to do so, within 14 days of receipt of this letter.

 

(Please also note that until such time as you do provide me with a true copy of this document, the agreement remains unenforceable and no further payments will be made.)

 

 

Regards, Pam

[pudsters14]

Thanx Pam, am in work 2mrw but will get that sent 1st class rec on Monday!

[WormHasTurned]

Hello Winner

 

..and welcome to the forum. Thank you for posting this. The Charging Orders haven't happened which must be a great relief (I also had a similar issue with D&LC)

 

May I ask what has happened about the alleged debt and any defaults on these accounts?

[pudsters14]

Oh and Pam, if you could do me a massive favour, could you have a look at my MBNA thread when uv got a spare few minutes and tell me what you think of that application form?!? have had mixed reactions so not sure what to do... thanx again for ur advice

[dl&c winner]

Hello Winner

 

..and welcome to the forum. Thank you for posting this. The Charging Orders haven't happened which must be a great relief (I also had a similar issue with D&LC)

 

May I ask what has happened about the alleged debt and any defaults on these accounts?

 

 

Hello to you and thanks for the welcome, as far as we are concerned we now believe that DL&C can no longer persue this debt as they were unable to provide the courts or us with the paperwork to prove that we had a debt in the first place.

A few days after the final charging orders were made DL&C sent us a letter to say that they had been granted the charging orders and that they were sending in the baliffs to collect goods to cover the debt. At the time that we went to court for the hearing for discharge of the charging orders and this information was given to the judge she was horrified stating that DL&C were not allowed to do this as they already had a charging order. We were lucky on that same day that the charging order was discharged and on the same day the paperwork was ordered for the next charging order and the muppets at DL&C still did not learn their lesson and sent the same paperwork as they had for the charging order that was discharged, Thus leaving us with the second charging order being discharged and DL&C losing more money. Considering how quickly they were willing to send out the balliffs letter originally we have not heard from them since and now believe that we should ask for all CCJ's and defaults to be removed from our credit file forthwith. I am also contacting all other credit cards and making sure that they actually have a regulated agreement under the consumer credit act in order to legally collect alleged debtsfrom me.

[JonCris]

Tam you will not be surprised to know that I don't agree with the sentiment "if I owe it I'll pay it"

 

To hell with that. If any consumer, all of whom over the years will have been fleeced at some time by the money lenders, can legally avoid paying any debt then they certainly have my whole hearted support.

 

By their conduct & their avarice the banks, the credit card & finance companies no longer hold the high moral ground & are never ever to be trusted again

[angel49]

hello, I have a posting in the hfc/household bank section but I think I now need the help of this section. I sent SAR to HFC where I had 4 accounts (loans) each one being consolidated between 2000-2003 when the last one was a "reconstruction" 3 of these are closed and one is still running. My data was received yesterday and its all coded type jargon, but there is only one copy of a credit agreement which is the most recent. Should I expect to receive ALL credit agreements? My main purpose is because I want to reclaim my PPI payments which I believe were mis-sold as being part of these loan agreements. I dont have PPI with the most recent loan from 2003 because they were well aware of my heart problems by then and it was being treated as a pre existing condition by the time I needed to make a claim.

Apologies for the length of this post,and thanks in anticipation.

[JonCris]

The data MUST be able to be understood by the data subject & if it isn't then they are in breach of the DPA.

 

Write back remind them of this & tell them that if they don't comply you will report them to the ICO

 

Also provided you have asked you should be given true copies of ALL the agreements so mention that also is one of your requirements

 

If you are still paying & intend disputing the debt you should send a sec 77-79 CCA request thereby placing the debt in dispute which means that you can stop payments & the creditor cannot enforce the debt until they comply.

 

If after 42 days they have still not complied they being in criminal default must seek a courts permission to enforce the debt which can only be given if they produce a true properly executed agreement

[angel49]

Thanks for your prompt response, the data is basically pages and pages of screen view material with codes for various items that mean nothing at all to me. I just about recognise the dates for each loan with a few repayment details but not much else,no mention of interest,insurance etc. I did call them back today but was told they have no paper statements due to the accounts being closed and with regard to insurance it was built into the loan as opposed to monthly repayment method.

However I could take all the paperwork into a local branch and staff would be able to "explain" it all to me!

I shall get on with the letter.

many thanks.

[hellhasnofury]

hello, bit a long thread but well worth the read, Given me information and advice to boost my confidence with these shyters thanks:D

[un1boy]

What if a bank tells u to close your account after u get sent an agreement with no prescribed terms? You think the FOS will fine them?

[elizabeth1]

What if a bank tells u to close your account after u get sent an agreement with no prescribed terms? You think the FOS will fine them?

 

 

YES !!! Send FOS your complaint and get it looked at etc.. as FOS are giving fines to these companies!!

[un1boy]

YES !!! Send FOS your complaint and get it looked at etc.. as FOS are giving fines to these companies!!

hmmm good point - just send it starigh to the FOS?

 

they gave me a notice to close my accounts after i claimed charges back, then repealed it saying that if i calim again they will close them

 

I cant afford for these to be closed at all

 

if i go through the fos they wont close them?