Cap1 & CCA return

[Guest Battleaxe]

Tam,

 

This is another one in the coffin of A & L as far as I am concerned. BTW can you have a look at my thread The Smiths v A & L Second Bite.

[Guest The Terminator]

I have just completed the Section 85 Default notices for MBNA (Alliance & Leicester) and for Capital One (both of us seperate credit cards with this outfit).

 

Do I send them to the Data Controller?

 

I would send them to their legal team

 

There times up next Tuesday so they have committed an offence

 

This is going to make an interesting conversation tomorrow with Bill Wareing, Senior Legal Assistant MBNA. As I have them for non-compliance S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), Compenstation under Section 13 and now the Section 85 and the Section 77-78 CCA (time is up on Friday 26 January 2007), this is going to be fun.

 

It's time to now face the bullies down and fight them with the legislation they thought none of us would uncover.

 

Oh by the way what do they mean by consolidation in Section 85?

 

Basically consolidation means that all the interest you have paid whilst they are in default and mine go's back to 2001/2002 has to be repaid as they are not allowed to profit whilst in default.They will most proberly have to look up the meaning.

 

Hope this also mean our credit files will be cleaned up.

Yes because any defaults would have been illigally administered

[paulwlton]

I spoke with a polic sargeant I know and he said that the police may not deal with it -it should be the county courts!

 

I'll ask him why if you want to know.....

 

County Court known as the Sheriff's Court in Scotland:

County Courts deal with Civil Law such as civil issues relating to family or property law - such as divorce or disputes over land. The County court does not take criminal cases. It hear's more formal cases before a district or circuit judge, and deals with a majority of divorce cases. The judge will be advised by a court clerk on all matters, and will preside over most common law matters. County courts do not generally fit within county boundaries in England and Wales, All property cases up to £30,000, all personal injury claims less than £50,000, and bankruptcy matters are all carried out by the District Judge at the county court. The County Court also hosts the small claims court, where most minor civil matters can be resolved with an informal arbitration.

[noomill060]

Have you spoken to a CID detective or did you speak to the uniformed PG Tips chimp on the desk?

 

Dont expect the chimp to be able to understand anything more complex than the life and death need to record MOT and car insurance details.

[dollies01]

rofl

 

[Guest Battleaxe]

Thank you for this Terminator, The MBNA interest goes back 2003, wow nice little nest egg here and the Crap One cards go back 18 months each.

 

2007 is turning into a very fine year.

 

I have the address for the MBNA Legal Team, so now to find the Crap one Legal team's address. I am certainly helping keep the Post Office in business.

[elizabeth1]

Capital One Bank (europe) PLC

Legal Dept

4th Floor

Loxley House

Station Street

Nottingham

NG2 3HX

[Guest Battleaxe]

Elizabeth 1

 

Thank you, I had the envelopes addressed to their registered office in London, so now have rewritten the envelopes.

 

Oh joy oh happiness, this is going to spike their guns..

[elizabeth1]

Goodluck - this was the address I used and it's where their legal team seem to hide out!!

[zubo]

Basically consolidation means that all the interest you have paid whilst they are in default and mine go's back to 2001/2002 has to be repaid as they are not allowed to profit whilst in default.They will most proberly have to look up the meaning.

Yes because any defaults would have been illigally administered

 

Terminator a question re 'whilst they are in default': I assume you are saying that once you issue them with a default notice, then they cannot profit. ie - if you had a Credit Card account from 2001 but only just issued a default, you could not claim interest from 2001 could you?

 

And is this a formal notice such as the Section 85 you kindly supplied for me - question I ask this is what wording would you use once they have not supplied a true agreement under CCA - do you have to formally issue a Default?

 

Thanks

[Guest The Terminator]

Terminator a question re 'whilst they are in default': I assume you are saying that once you issue them with a default notice, then they cannot profit. ie - if you had a Credit Card account from 2001 but only just issued a default, you could not claim interest from 2001 could you?

 

And is this a formal notice such as the Section 85 you kindly supplied for me - question I ask this is what wording would you use once they have not supplied a true agreement under CCA - do you have to formally issue a Default?

 

Thanks

 

If you read S85 it says that a copy of the agreement has to be supplied everytime a new card is issued.So in effect by not supplying a copy of the agreement they are in default and after 30 days they commit an offence.

 

85 Duty on issue of new credit-tokens

(1) Whenever, in connection with a credit-token agreement, a credit-token (other than the first) is given by the creditor to the debtor, the creditor shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it.

(2) If the creditor fails to comply with this section—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

(3) This section does not apply to a small agreement.

So this part of the act is in plain English and interpratated means they cannot profit whilst in default.The notice merely tells them that they are in default .Now all the monies taken whilst they are in default should be paid back and as they have already committed an offence I don't think they would like to go up in front of a judge.

[Guest Battleaxe]

I woke up this morning feeling so happy regarding this Section, because Crap One have reneged on everything they have said to me. MBNA have been so smug and trying to settle out of court once they knew the ICO ruled in my favour, so this Section 85 being served on them is added joy. I'm wondering about the nterest we have paid if it will repaid with contractual interest added also, as this is what they charged us over the years. Is my reasoning flawed?

[Guest The Terminator]

Terminator a question re 'whilst they are in default': I assume you are saying that once you issue them with a default notice, then they cannot profit. ie - if you had a Credit Card account from 2001 but only just issued a default, you could not claim interest from 2001 could you?

 

And is this a formal notice such as the Section 85 you kindly supplied for me - question I ask this is what wording would you use once they have not supplied a true agreement under CCA - do you have to formally issue a Default?

 

Thanks

 

Now there is also something else that falls into our favour.The Limitation Act.They cannot come back and say it is stature barred because it is within the 6 year time limit so if they try and use that don't be fobbed off.

[un1boy]

Un1boy do you have a copy of the banks T&C this may be your starting point.

 

Hi Term,

 

No - the account was opened 9 years ago when I was 14 and I never signed anything to "upgrade" it.

 

It annoys me, beacsue I haven't done anything wrong - all I did was ask to open another current account and they have declined it and asked that I close all my other accounts - do the banks talk to each other about these claims and stuff?

 

When I asked for a reason, they said they can't give me one because if they tell customers/staff then they can start to manipulate applications to push them through. But, how can I "appeal" a decision, if I don't know how/why it was made?

[maybelline]

can charges be applied while a debt is in dispute?

[Mike220359]

I woke up this morning feeling so happy regarding this Section, because Crap One have reneged on everything they have said to me. MBNA have been so smug and trying to settle out of court once they knew the Information Commissioners Office ruled in my favour, so this Section 85 being served on them is added joy. I'm wondering about the nterest we have paid if it will repaid with contractual interest added also, as this is what they charged us over the years. Is my reasoning flawed?

 

Section 85 is a very powerful tool indeed, and it seems that the Men In Black have chosen not to deal with the matter. The hide behind the fact that terms and conditions are issued with each card as Simon did at Loyds TSB. Hi Simon.

 

The fact is that the the Terms and Conditions without a copy of the original agreement which enforce them are worth squat. So after the prescribed period they break the law, with all the consquences that that embodies.

 

Consider this, think of the number of cards issued with terms and conditions attached (without the original agreement) when 'chip & pin' was established. It's a ticking bomb.

 

Extend this further, they are in default, the contract is void, they're sharing my data, the CRA have my file within which is data unlawfully disseminated. You can go on and on.

 

I would imagine in all honesty that the MIB do know about section 85, but have done a risk assessment to determine whether it was worth hanging on to the original documentation or not, or to send it on when they should. Up to now they have got away with it, but now that risk assessment will be a nooses around their necks.

 

An interesting observation IKEA have just sent my wife a relacemnt card with terms and conditions attached (on a form printed in June 2006!), not a copy of the original agreement at all, the account was started in 2003!

 

I realise that alot of the readers will say that Stautory Instrument issued in 1983, negates the need to supply a copy of the executed agreemnt because the copy doesn't have to be signed or date by the parties. But and this is what I firmly believe and has proven in my experience to be correct, a piece of paper offered as a 'copy' that has a print date later than when you started the agreement is not a copy of the executed agreement, whereas one that has a print date before may be. They will argue the toss as Simon did, but they will back down.

 

Secondly, under the DPA a subject access request can include a request for a copy of the original agrement since it would be stored in a 'relevant filing system', if they cannot supply it slap a section 77 or 78 on them. This invokes the CCA requirments and offers you the protection of the law and allows you some ammunition and time to organise yourself.

 

I would like to make one thing crystal clear, I am in no way trying or encourageing others to get out of paying legitimate borrowing. What I am doing is encouraging others to use the law to battle for what is thiers. So if interst as been added because they haven't complied with section 85 get it back, they charged you that unlawfully!

 

Mike

[Mike220359]

can charges be applied while a debt is in dispute?

 

Nothing can be added to a debt whilst an account is in default.

 

Mike

[Guest The Terminator]

can charges be applied while a debt is in dispute?

 

No charges, No interest absolutly "sod all" and once the 12 day period has passed the creditor would have defaulted and would not be able to enforce the agreement until such time as a true copy of the executed agreement is received.

[Fullyskinted]

Am I right in saying this...

 

"Whilst it remains in dispute the agreement is unenforceable.

Whilst it is unenforceable, no interest is to be added to the account. No action can be taken against me. No adverse credit references or defaults can be listed against me with Credit Reference Agencies. And lastly, I am not obliged to make any further payments to the account. Essentially, the account is ‘held’ as it was on the date of my request (2nd January 2007)."

Im about to send this off TODAY so need a response quick!!!

 

 

[Fullyskinted]

Just been advised on the live chat that it should be the end of the 12 days...

[m55dlc]

Just subscribing to this thread - it's taken me two days to read through half of it at the moment. Just a quick question to the Terminator - how did MBNA resolve your S85 default? I haven't got to that bit yet?

[Guest The Terminator]

Just subscribing to this thread - it's taken me two days to read through half of it at the moment. Just a quick question to the Terminator - how did MBNA resolve your S85 default? I haven't got to that bit yet?

 

They haven't.They have about 7 days left before they commit a criminal offence then the fun begins.Especally when their hand is forced to go to court then they can explain to a judge all the other criminal offences I have collated against them.I'm just letting the law take it's course.If you read back a little bit you will see what I mean with the letters I have posted from them.

[maybelline]

Hi, what is the difference between in default and in dispute, I have done my DPA and CCA but have queries re misselling insurance which I have yet to challenge but have challenged the unfair penalty charges.

[Peterbard]

Best be careful here

 

 

A Default is a legal term

For our puposed it means

 

Failure to do something required by duty (as under a contract or by law):

 

From the creditors purposees it means

 

Failure to comply with the terms of a loan agreement or security agreement esp. with regard to payment of the debt

 

A dispute is a dissagrement over a contract or a term theirin that prents the agreement from being actioned,

 

Clear as mud

 

Peter

[un1boy]

Nothing can be added to a debt whilst an account is in default.

 

Mike

 

Can anyone point me in the direction of where is says they cannot profit whislt in default?

 

Also, how do you go about knowing when cards were issued if you want to use sec 85?

 

And lastly, it says in the defualt notice earlier that you will record the information on their credit files - is this posisble seeing as you do not pay them to subscribe? Would it not bee better to say that you would notify the Bank of England, seeing as it is they whom loan to the banks?