scary Rundle bailiff...what do i do now?

[diddydaisy]

Hi, any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

10am this morning i answer the door to a rather large rough looking man, im 5'5 and 8 stone.

 

he informs me he is wanting £1122 for council tax, i inform him that i had sent in a liability order 4 weeks ago and it was being dealt with

 

all he is interested in is writing down the details of the car on my driveway.

 

i inform him the car actually belongs to my dad. and he says that as the registered keeper the car is mine. i do not own this car and never bought it. i am the registered keeper for insurance purposes.

 

i telephoned the council while he sat outside in his car, the council would only say the debt has been passed to the bailiff and i have to deal with him.

 

at this point he is trying to put a letter through the cat flap, i tell him im speaking to the council. he says he doesnt care i should phone family and friends and get someone to pay the full amount.

 

i repeatedly tell him thats not possible and i can pay so much each month, he tells me its the whole lot today or he's taking my car.

 

he has left a letter stating that he will return within 48 hours with the police if necessary to remover the car.

 

i have called CAB and they have kindly made an appointment for me next thursday morning, they are booked solid for the next month so was very pleased they done this for me. she said she would call the bailiff and explain i was seeing the CAB

 

what do i do now, and sorrow for going on

[brassnecked]

You move the car well away from your hiouse and keep the door shut, there is no law that says you MUST deal with a bailiff don't let him in, speak to him through the letterbox and try to film him on a mobile to capture any threats. other Caggers will be along soon with more advice.

 

As a stsrter ask the council in the morning

How many liability orders they hold for you

What year/s they apply to

How much are they for

When were they passed to the bailiff for action

 

Then you will have to write to the bailiffs asking for a screenshot of your account when you compare the two the fees can be checked for validity

 

Others will be along soon so Don't worry

[ploddertom]

I assume amongst everything he posted was a Notice of Seizure which included the car. Going by what you say your father must complete a Statutory Declaration about ownership of the vehicle, have this notarised at a Solicitor - cost £5/£10 no appointment needed - he will need approx 3 copies and send one immediately to the Bailiffs along with a letter from yourself asking them to remove the levy and all associated charges. What fees is he claiming - on the back of the Notice of Seizure.

 

PT

[diddydaisy]

hi, the letter he left said nothing about 'notice of seizure'

 

it says,

 

ATTENDANCE NOTICE

THE CLEARANCE OF GOODS

 

i called today with transportation to remove your goods. i shall be calling back within the next 48 hours,

with the police in attendance if necessary, to complete my task. this action will be taken without

further notice.

 

i may seize and remove sufficient goods and chattels as are necessary to clear the debt at public

auction, this may include vehicles. the cost of removal contractors and auctioneers will be deducted

from the proceeds of the sale of your goods

 

TO AVOID THESE DISTRESSING AND CIOSTLY ACTIONS, CONTACT ME IMMEDIATELY

 

and there is nothing on the reverse and no mention of any fee's

 

does that help, and thanks for the response i really do appreciate it

[brassnecked]

No levy on the car yet, move and hide it a good distance away, then do as ploddertom says about the Statutory declaration, this will make any seizure of the car unlawful, and invalidate a levy on it.

the bailiff will threaten all sorts, but you must keep him out and no he doesn't need to come in to "discuss options", nor can he force entry, bring locksmiths call the police to arrest you, need to use your phone to call the office, he has a mobile of his own, need a glass of water to take heart pills, eyc etc.

[diddydaisy]

hi, i know this probably sounds silly, but what do you mean 'no levy'.

 

ive moved the car, but not many places in a small village

[ploddertom]

Until a Bailiff levies upon your goods you are free to do with them as you please. You may sell, give away, donate, set fire to - as long as it is legal etc. Many people sell their possessions to a good friend or relative and then rent them back at say £1 a year.

 

Whatever happens make sure your doors are locked and windows firmly closed. As he has not gained access to your home he is cannot even contemplate a forced entry. He may however seize/remove any goods outside and it is to this he refers to in his notice.

 

As this is a debt that will not go away you must start to make some form of payment. This may be done through online banking, Council website or automated phone. If you do make an allowance for lawful Bailiff fees - you will have incurred a visit fee of £24-50 for today, if he comes again it will be another £18-00. After that he may not charge again unless he is able to obtain a levy on your goods. If you do commence payment ensure it is done regularly - £10 every Thursday for example. This shows a willingness to pay should the Council seek a Committal Hearing and will put you in good stead.

 

PT

[hallowitch]

hi, i know this probably sounds silly, but what do you mean 'no levy'.

 

Ive moved the car, but not many places in a small village

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?320973-Another-assault-by-a-bailiff-Rossendales/page4

 

have a look on this thread post 68

 

If a bailiff had makes a levy on the car he should/would have left a notice of distress/seizure of goods and inventory ( looks like the document in post 68 )listing the car

the outstanding debt ,levy fee, and any other fee he thinks he can get away with

 

were you left this ? did he leave you anything with the outstanding debt and fees for his visit ?

[diddydaisy]

all he left was the 'attendance notice '

[hallowitch]

all he left was the 'attendance notice '

 

did this notice have the bailiffs name on it ? (have a look and see if he is certificated)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?210956-On-line-search-to-check-if-a-Bailiff-is-Certificated.....

did this notice have an outstanding balance /bailiff fees for the visit on it?

[diddydaisy]

the name he has given me is different to his surname on the register.

 

the only amount stated is the TOTAL DUE no mention of any fee's anywhere

[hallowitch]

can you PM(private message) his name till i have a look please

[diddydaisy]

sorry was my mistake, two work for Rundles with same names ish, hes got a certificate until april

[hallowitch]

sorry was my mistake, two work for Rundles with same names ish, hes got a certificate until april

 

thats ok

he informs me he is wanting £1122 for council tax,

when you phone the council and they answers the ques tens in post 2 we will be able see what bailiff fees have been added to your account

i inform him that i had sent in a liability order 4 weeks ago and it was being dealt with

 

can you explain this please its the council that get a liability order against you

 

 

is the car on HP/finance ,does your dad have any paper work for the purchase of the car by any chance

[diddydaisy]

yes the liability order was from the council, for £938.47

 

the bailiff wants £1122.97

 

no there isnt any finance on the car, dad paid cash

[Mrs E Blackadder]

If I have read this correctly, in post #1 it is stated that all the bailiff was interested in was 'writing' down details of the car on the driveway. If this is the case, then he will consider he has levied on the car. You must get something that proves the car belongs to your father or the bailiff will just consider it fair game and moving it elsewhere will only cause you further hassle from him.

 

I have been in an almost identical situation to this, whereby a bailiff tried to levy on the car on my driveway which was a lease car. All the bailiff did was write down the registration number on a scrap of paper, he certainly didn't leave anything official to say that he had levied on the car. When I told him that it was pretty pointless writing the registration number down as the car didn't belong to the person he was looking for, I just got all the usual bull about they can take what they want unless I could provide him with paperwork about who owned the car.

 

I don't know whether or not just writing the details of a car on a scrap of paper can be officially classed as a levy, but they will certainly treat it as such. Please do as suggested in above posts and either get a sworn affadavit that the car is your fathers (very easy to do at the local solicitors and probably a good first approach if your father can't immediately lay his hands on the paperwork for the car) and/or provide the relevant paperwork.

 

Good luck

[brassnecked]

No just writing the index number down, and leaving no paperwork saying it is seized can't be classed as a levy legally Mrs E Blackadder, he has noted it down for when the breakdown request is sent, he can then retrospectively cook up a notice of seizure to miraculously post through the OP's letterbox. and add more fees, and tell the council, the levy he has decided he has just done weeks later is valid.

[Dippyprincess]

If the car is in your name you, basically, buggered!!! He can then levy on it!

 

I would suggest you advise him you cant make the payment in full but agree to pay it in full before the end or March by dividing what is left to pay.

 

If all else fails, pay the council direct....but whatever you do pay the bill!

[tomtubby]

Levying on a car that does not belong to the debtor is NOT permitted and the local authority (who are responsible for THEIR agents) MUST refund ALL charges associated with a levy and this will include any of the frequently charged "enforcement fees".....

 

SEE BELOW

 

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.

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Local Government Ombudsman’sReport:

 

 

Local Authority: Rossendale Borough Council

 

 

Bailiff Company: Equita Ltd

 

 

Date: 15th December 2010

 

 

 

Approximately 25% of complaints to the Local Government Ombudsmanare resolved though a “local settlement”. This is where an “agreement” is reached between the LGO and the relevant Local Authority and nearly always, is on the basis that the local authority agrees to the recommendation of the Ombudsmanby agreeing to change the practice that had been the subject of the complaint to the LGO.

 

Although Local Settlements made by the LGO are not legally binding, it is important to be aware that according to the LGO, 99% of all “local settlements” are complied with in full.

 

 

For the above reason, “Local settlements” do not result in a public report or a formal finding of maladministration. Accordingly, a copy will not be made available on the LGO website.

 

On 15th December 2010 the LGO provided their final written report regarding a complaint made to them concerning Rossendale Borough Council and their agent; Equita Ltd. This particular complaint resulted in a “local settlement” and as mentioned above, a public report is not published.

 

 

I have a copy of the full report and permission from the complainant (Mr H) to provide the following details. Please note that the underlining is not from the LGO report.

 

 

The Complaint by Mr H concerns the following:

 

 

· Charging “multiple” fees to Mr H’s account for enforcing two Liability Orders

· Charging for visits that Mr H disputes ever took place

· Levying upon a vehicle that did not belong to Mr H and failing to provide a Notice of Seizure.

 

Paragraph 21 of the Ombudsman’s report states:

 

 

· “I am also concerned that there are fees charged to both of Mr H’s accounts in relation to one visit on 2nd July 2009. Although there were two Liability Orders in place, I do not consider it reasonable to charge twice for one physical visit”

 

Paragraph 23 states:

 

 

Thirdly, I am concerned that the bailiffs levied on a vehicle parked in the street which did not belong to Mr H. The bailiffs are required to leave an inventory of the goods seized with the customer at the time of the levy and the Council confirmed that the bailiffs will check the ownership of a vehicle with the DVLA before seizing it.

 

 

Legally, bailiffs can distrain on goods in a public place (in this case a vehicle parked in the street) if they have reasonable cause to believe that the goods belong to the debtor and are not needed for the debtor's work.

 

 

I do not consider the fact that a vehicle is parked in the street outside someone's home to be sufficient evidence of the bailiff to have reasonable cause to believe the vehicle is owed by the occupier of the house. It is recognised that there is some onus on the customer to advise the bailiffs if the vehicle listed on the inventory does not belong to them. However there is also some onus on the bailiffs to take reasonable steps to check the vehicle's ownership.

 

 

Paragraph 24:

 

 

I have consulted the Ombudsman and it is her view that although contacting the DVLA would be the most effective way to check ownership of the vehicle, she would accept other documented or supporting evidence such as the bailiff having witnessed the customer using the vehicle regularly

 

 

 

Paragraph 25:

 

 

There is no evidence to show that letters were left with Mr H on 4th and 12th June 2008 and so I consider that Mr H should not have been charged for these visits.

 

 

Paragraph 26:

 

To remedy this injustice it is recommended that the bailiff’s charges of these dates are removed from Mr H's account.

 

 

Paragraph 27:

 

 

I have additional concerns about the way this case was handled by the bailiffs. There is no evidence that an inventory was left with Mr H when the levy was made on a vehicle. In addition, the vehicle levied against was not his and the notes recorded by the bailiff are insufficient to show when visits were actually made what information was left with the customer.

 

 

Paragraph 29:

 

 

In addition, although the bailiff may have two liability orders, I consider it unreasonable that two charges were made in relation to one visit, as happened on 2 July 2008.

 

 

It is recommended that the council ensures that such double charging does not happen in future.

 

 

Paragraph 30:

 

 

The vehicle levied on does not belong to Mr H and he was not required to pay the costs associated with the levy visit.

 

 

Paragraph 34:

 

 

I remain of the view that bailiffs should make reasonable enquiries to establish the ownership of a vehicle before levying against it.

 

 

The person receiving the levy must accept some responsibility for advising the council or bailiff if the vehicle levied upon does not belong to them.

 

 

Paragraph 42:

 

 

The council has stated that a levy form was supplied. The Council has never produced a copy of the levy inventory.

 

 

The Council's complaint response to Mr H advised that the bailiff has not retained a copy of the levy form. Surely this document is essential if the bailiff were ever to proceed to seizing a vehicle? Mr H was not aware of what had been levied against until he received the Council's response to his complaint which commented on a levy having taken place, in relation to the silver Audi. At this point he was able to advise the Council we did not own such a car. I therefore remain of the view that there is no evidence of the levy inventory was left at the property.

 

Paragraph 53:

 

 

In addition, although the bailiff may have two liability orders, I consider it unreasonable that two charges were made in relation to one visit, as happened on 2nd July 2008.

 

It is recommended that the council ensures that such double charging does not happen in future.

 

 

Paragraph 54:

 

The council has accepted the recommendations and has agreed to apologise to Mr H for any procedural errors the bailiffs have made. I consider this a satisfactory way to resolve this complaint and so I have discontinued the investigation and closed the complaint.

 

XXXX

 

Investigator, on behalf of the Ombudsman

[diddydaisy]

UPDATE.

 

Firstly can i thank everyone for their help and advice, i really do appreciate you all taking the time to help, thank you

 

after speaking to a lovely lady at CAB the day the bailiff came, i had my appointment today.

 

i will never use the CAB again, never been made to feel so pathetic. the woman was condecending, and told me that i had to do what the bailiff wanted or basically go to prison.

 

was i not already petrified enough??

 

and told me that hiding the car was illegal, i refered to much of the advice from here, she did finally call the bailiff, he still wanted way more than i can afford each month and she really had no interest in helping.

 

i left feeling more desparate than when i went in.

 

a strong coffee and knowing i needed to resolve this, i called the council again, was again told that i had to deal with the bailiff.

 

now feeling i have nothing to lose i ask for her manager. got a llovely man who asked to hear my whole situation.

 

and he helped...woo hoo

 

he asked what i reasonably afford each week or month. he has notified the bailiff he must accept this amount

 

i have just gotten off the phone to the bailiff, a standing order is now in place to pay each week and it was actually a pleasent phone call.

 

so to anyone going through what i just have, please dont take the councils first answer that they cant help, ask to go higher and hopefully you will get someone who is understanding. and do try to resolve it. i never want to have to sit hear scared to hear the door bell ring again.

 

thanks again everyone, and a to a fabulous website xxxx

[brassnecked]

UPDATE.

 

Firstly can i thank everyone for their help and advice, i really do appreciate you all taking the time to help, thank you

 

after speaking to a lovely lady at CAB the day the bailiff came, i had my appointment today.

 

i will never use the CAB again, never been made to feel so pathetic. the woman was condecending, and told me that i had to do what the bailiff wanted or basically go to prison.

 

was i not already petrified enough??

 

and told me that hiding the car was illegal, i refered to much of the advice from here, she did finally call the bailiff, he still wanted way more than i can afford each month and she really had no interest in helping.

 

i left feeling more desparate than when i went in.

 

a strong coffee and knowing i needed to resolve this, i called the council again, was again told that i had to deal with the bailiff.

 

now feeling i have nothing to lose i ask for her manager. got a llovely man who asked to hear my whole situation.

 

and he helped...woo hoo

 

he asked what i reasonably afford each week or month. he has notified the bailiff he must accept this amount

 

i have just gotten off the phone to the bailiff, a standing order is now in place to pay each week and it was actually a pleasent phone call.

 

so to anyone going through what i just have, please dont take the councils first answer that they cant help, ask to go higher and hopefully you will get someone who is understanding. and do try to resolve it. i never want to have to sit hear scared to hear the door bell ring again.

 

thanks again everyone, and a to a fabulous website xxxx

 

CAB are unfortunately variable in their advice, but at this stage there is NO WAY a bailiff can cart you off to jail or force entry. but I am glad you are sorted, any more problems post back and Caggers will be ready to help I'm sure