Secondhand car not fit for purpose - what can I do next?

[Lisa G]

Hi, first time of posting here, but have been a 'guest reader' for a while!

 

On 7th August 2011 my husband and I purchased a used Land Rover Discovery - R registration, so not new by any stretch of the imagination. Our old one needed some repairs and was very high milage so we decided to get another. We saw one advertised on ebay by a trade seller, it had a link to his website, and we saw the car on there also. His website stated he only sells quality vehicles etc. We called him, had a viewing and a test drive. The belt screeched a bit, he told us the belt had got wet when he took it into town shortly before we arrived, and that was why it was screeching. We don't know a great deal about cars, and agreed to buy it. We bought it on a credit card in my husbands name, but as I drive, receipt was in my name. The car was to come with a full years MOT, which he would get done the next day and deliver the car to us after that.

 

I did not hear from the trader by early afternoon the next day so I called him. He said he couldnt get it in for MOT that day but it was being done the next day. He delivered it to us the fllowing day, 10th August. On delivery it had the MOT certificate. Advisories were - Rear registration plate deteriorated, but not likely to be misread, Nearside and Offside rear shock absorbers have slightly worn rubber bushed, Nearside rear tyre worn close to legal limit, Oil leak, and both rear tyres perished.

 

Later that day I took the car out, belt screeching and getting louder the further I went. Phoned trader, he said I could have a belt off another vehicle, I could pop up and collect one. No way, said I would not be able to fit my self anyway, he agreed to come the next day and fit the belt. He did this. We took car out for a drive again, yet again, the further we went, the more it screeched, also could hear a knocking noise from the rear. Called trader again, described where I could see water coming from and turns out water pump is leaking! He then wanted us to drive vehicle to him and leave it there for repair. He sells the cars from his house which is in the middle of nowhere, advised he would needed to collect car. After some discussion he agreed to collect the next day. Early that morning we drove it for less than 1 mile to see if we could hear knocking noise, we couldnt. When he arrived to collect car, he started having a go saying we shouldnt be driving the vehicle as we could damage it more. I pointed out that he originally wanted us to drive it nearly 20 miles to him for repair!

 

When he wanted to return it he knew we were both working, and originally agreed to return it after 6pm, then he phoned and said he couldnt do that. He would return it, park it on driveway and put keys through letterbox, advised not possible as security doors would be locked. He said fine he would leave the keys in the car - no one would want to steal it as there are far better cars to take! I couldnt believe it - he seemed like he wanted to avoid us. He also refused to give me a receipt for the repair. Because of this I booked it in for an inspection with a local 4X4 garage. The inspection was done on 17th August. OMG! Its a nightmare and they thought it was unroadworty, the list was endless! Also Air-con car was advertised as having didnt work, sunroof leaks when it rains, the rear tyre on the advisories actually has a puncture too.

 

VOSA collected the car on 24th August. It had only sat on my drive for a week but wouldnt start, a battery pack failed also and it had to run off another car for over 10 minutes before it would start. It failed on Nearside rear and Offside rear shock absorbers excessively worn and a repeater bulb not working (not worried about bulb!) Advisories Offside front balljoint has play, Offside front power steering pipe or hose has seepage from a component, offside rear anti roll bar linkage has slight play in ball joint, nearside front wheel bearing has slight play, oil leak. Christ, I would have rejected the car on delivery with that list! VOSA said that although they have failed it, they cannot revoke the original certificate so it still has MOT until next August!

 

I phoned trader saying I wanted him to give us a refund and to collect the car as I was rejecting it. It was not roadworthy and I certainly could not pull my horse trailer with it. He refused, and actually hung up on me! I sent him an email, he replied saying the faults did not warrant a refund, but as agesture of goodwill he would repair the shock absorbers or supply me with the parts. I refused this and he did not answer.

 

We lodged the complaint with the credit card company who have lied and strung it out. First the list of faults was not enough, they need estimates. 9 minutes later same person called back saying they couldnt help as used cars are not covered! Consumer Direct advised they do cover them, so back we went. Sent in the estimates. Then they were paying and would credit account. Then they needed more time and had no record of them saying they would pay! Then they said they won't pay as car used again, so we we disputed that they came back and said as receipt is in my name, and not card holder they wont pay. Im sending all the details to the financial ombudsman tomorrow regarding that.

 

Last week we sent a recorded delivery letter to the trader again, saying we want a refund. It shows on Royal Mail tracker that he got it yesterday so will see if he replies.

 

IS there anything else I can do? The car does not start, cant open with the FOB, key is very stiff but I can just about open the door. Doesnt even click when you turn the key, battery must be totally flat, just like the rear tyre! When it rains the car mists up badly and the roof lining getts sopping wet. Ive driven less than 100 miles in this car, and have not driven it myself since 17th August when inspection was done. Only other person to drive it was the VOSA man. Its been sitting there unused since 24th August. Winter is approaching I do not have a vehicle to use to move my ponies, get hay and straw to the fields for them for over winter and am generally in a right mess because of this. Would have been cheaper to get old one fixed.

 

Sorry its so long, but any help or advice would be greatfully recieved.

[totiesquoties]

hi lisa g,

as this was paid on a credit card, ring the bank up immediately and explain what has happened, they should refund the card immediately, and the garage will then have to try and claim off the bank, i did this with a problem wth a garage for work not carried out, and i paid, i got all my monies i claimed back from the bank, totiesquoties.

[Lisa G]

Credit card company (Barclaycard) have been useless. As I said above, they currently say they will not pay out as the card is in my husbands name, but receipt is in my name. Excuses before this one have been -

 

It could not be proved the faults were there when we purchased the car.

 

As it is a used car it is not covered.

 

Both above are untrue and confirmed they are covered by Consumer Direct.

 

Now its the receipt thing, no idea if this is correct as cannot find anything on it. Barclaycard have never contacted us when they said they will. We even sent a letter a month ago asking them to send us the financial ombudsman details by return. They confirmed in a telephone call that they recieved it (I know as sent recorded delivery), but have never sent the information requested.

[totiesquoties]

hi lisa g,

you have 120 days requesting the bank initiates the chargeback process, you will have to be persistant . have a look at www.whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback a lot of info on there about this hope this helps totiesquoties.

p.s. if the 120 days lapse they will not pay out, it is all on the above website.

[Lisa G]

So does that apply to a credit card? All the info I found on it refers to debit cards.

 

The financial ombudsman has put a complaint in for us to Barclaycard, and said they have 8 weeks to respond. Why does everything have to take so long?

[heliosuk]

Sorry, can't buy into a lot of this. It sounds like the person you have bought it off is not aware of what they are dealing with. On balance the faults are not that serious and the VOSA report seems to concur this. It's routine wear and tear items which should have been put right before sale to you.

 

You need to remember that even a new car has inherrant design faults which some people pick up on, let alone an R registration car.

 

You have not given any indication of mileage, price or condition of the purchased Disco so how can you reject?

 

Advisories are as such. They are not an indication that the car is unfit for purpose, unsafe or whatever, hence the term advisory. It's an observation that at some point the parts mentioned might need attention.

 

The sunroof leak problem is well documented and as an obvious devoted Disco owner I'm surprised you are not aware of it. The fix is well documented and easily available to all as well. It has though been fixed permanently.

 

I take it you have served notice of rejection to the sellar and that it has remained on your drive so to speak with you not using it?

[Lisa G]

Thanks for reply Heliosuk.

 

I have not used the car since returning from inspection on 17th August. Only time it has left my drive since then was when VOSA took it on 24th August.

 

The trader we bought it from is a suposed 'dealer in Land Rovers'. He only had Disco's for sale, and when we were there he went on about them alot! Ive had 2 previously, both older than the one we bought, both had the dual sunroof's and neither had a leak. I wanted another because I find them good for towing my horses around and can get across the fields in almost any weather in them. Ive not looked into them other than this, had no idea about the problem with leaking sunroof's! I told him the problem with my one I had at the time, which was a problem with the brakes, and to get it fixed would have cost around £800. He asked how much I wanted for it, and he knew what I needed a car for. He has sold me a car that needs more doing to it than the one I sold! We paid him £2,000 for the new one, and it has 140,000 miles on the clock. It has leather seats and air-con, and similar ones I saw selling privately and advertised as in good condition were around £1750 so from a dealer I accepted it would be a little more, but we thought buying from a trader would be better! How wrong was I! As I said previously, im no expert. I get in it, turn the key and drive it. Other than checking oil, tyre pressures and water and filling with fuel I dont really know much else! I sold my old disco privately.

 

I spoke to the garage where VOSA took it for the re-mot. The guy there remembered very well the car going in 7 weeks before. He had looked at some of the points with him, he said the rear shock absorbers are totally gone, no way could that have been missed during an MOT, and he thought the wheel bearings were bad too. He was more suprised that the original testing garage did not send a representative down to be present during the retest. I asked him about the welding repairs that had been done to the car but he had not looked at them. The garage who I got to inspect the vehicle said they were the worst they had ever seen and were close to seat belt mountings etc. When they showed me these repairs and you tapped the area's, white powder comes out, they say they have used some sort of filler. (no drug jokes please!)

 

We have not had a reply from the last letter we sent the trader, but will wait and see what he says. We have again asked for him to refund our money and collect the car. He did not reply to my last email, so we sent a letter by recorded delivery, which has been recieved by him.

 

I have had to go and buy a cheap little run around and found an M registered Nissan Micra. Bought it for £400 providing it had 1 years MOT. Inside it was immaculate and very clean. Garage got it MOT'd. It had some advisories - 2 tyres getting near limit, and tiny hole in exhaust. Garage replaced the 2 tyres and fixed exhaust and put new windscreen wipers on it. I had budgeted for the tyres myself as looked low when I viewed it. But they paid for them. Now thats a good service, and I got what I expected and a little more. Not like the heap currently taking up my driveway! Only trouble is the Micra cant pull my trailer!

 

Im making jokes but this has put me in a right mess - im now paying insurance on an extra vehicle, as well as having to pay to get my horse feeds etc delivered. Soon, everywhere will be full of mud, and Im going to be having to walk across the fields with my little boy, who usually stays in the car watching DVD's as I do everything.

[Lisa G]

Here is a copy of the report I had done, ive cropped it take out names and addresses etc.

 

 

Sorry its so small, hope you can read it. The second page reads

 

carcass

Slight leak in N/S swivel Housing

Excessive play in N/S front hub bearing

Rev counter not working

Rear mudflaps missing

 

This inspection was done after the car had done 100 miles since the MOT 7 days before. Approx 30 of those miles were done by the trader getting the car fixed and then returning it to me.

 

Several items im not bothered about - Wiper blades, interior bulbs, mudflaps etc. But some of the other stuff is shocking! And I know some people are harder on things than some MOT garages, but the trader told it the car was of very good quality when he was selling it to us.The trader also said in a phone call to him that after the water pump was done that the power steering fluid will have been leaking because it was all disturbed to fix it. Ive checked with 2 garages, and they both say that is rubbish!

Edited October 18, 2011 by Lisa G
add to

[totiesquoties]

yes 120 days for a visa card over £100, and for a debit card any amount.

[BrazilianCCK]

I am suprised at the way VOSA have dealt with this - my understanding and experience is if a complaint is made about an MOT, the vehicle has to be returned and re-tested at the same station as the original test - after all, they are more interested in finding out what and why the testers at that station are missing items and whether it is a systematic failure of the MOT stations stystems

 

The fact that you say that no representative from the original testing station was not present at the re-test is also very weird

 

It is also highly unlikely that it would be taken for re-test on the basis of one complaint - they generally only go down that route if a station, or a tester in particular, has received a number of complaints.

[Lisa G]

Hi,

 

Last August bought car, turned out to berubbish, MOT redone by VOSA and it failed. Trader refused to refund. He says you should expect faults on a secondhand car. I say in less than 100 miles, and 1 week, the shock absorberswill not wear out totally (metal knocking noise explained!)aswell as power sterring leaking in 2 places, wheel bearings going and a whole list of problems.

 

Did all the letters, final filed court papers. He did not respond to the court. Judgement given to me 3 weeks ago. Judgement letter sent to him returned to the court 'return to sender' Court say it stands and my next step is to pay for a bailiff. We filed it as Mr xxx xxxxx T/A xxxxcar sales.

 

He has moved his car business away from his houseto aplace just half a mile away. What I need to knowis how does it work withthe bailiff? Am I likely to get my money? I cant afford to lose any more money. This has caused us considerable hardship not having this car to use, it has sat on my driveway since last august. We only wentout in it 3 times. Once when it first arrived but it sounded so bad we went home, he then came to fix it. Next time to test it after it was 'fixed', same again and he took itaway to fix it, last time driving it to and from the inspection when theytold me to drive home slowly, they wouldnt risk their children it!

 

Any advice gratefully recieved, Im in this far butj ust cannot afford to lose any more.

 

Thanks.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Lisa G
spelling mistakes!

[sequenci]

Hello there, welcome to the forums. How much is your judgment for?

 

The reason I ask is that you may have the choice to use both County Court or High Court bailiffs - the latter are likely to be more aggressive.

[Lisa G]

Thanks for reply.

 

Its for £2150.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Report him to trading standards asap.

[dx100uk]

two threads merged

 

please keep to one thread per issue

 

dx

[Lisa G]

OK but my issue now is bailiff, hope people who may be able to help will read down this far!

[Lisa G]

Well, when the bailiff letter arrived he contacted the court! Amazing eh? Didnt get the 2 judgement letters from the court before that. The judgement was set aside and the car had to go for another inspection, so more payout for me as I had to pay half the bill and also pay for the car to be transported there and back. The car has now sat on my driveway unused since purchase last August. I have various oil leak patches all over the drive!

 

The second report was the same as the first one I paid for. Trader still says the car is worth the money, I dispute that but at the end of the day he never told us of any of the faults with the car when we purchased it.

 

Our hearing at court is now set for tomorrow, 10am - wish me luck!

[Pheobelike]

Hi Lisa,

 

I found this thread through Google, as I am just starting down the same road myself.

 

How did the case go today?

 

Thanks,

Pheobe

[hillards]

Oh, that's disappointing - I was hoping to hear what the court had said and if the matter was now resolved...?