O2 Contract Issues

[Andrew-P]

My wife has had a number of problems with O2 and has sent the following e-mail to them:

 

DearSir / Madam

Itis with great regret that I have had to cancel a significantly long standingcontract with yourselves for the following reasons :-

1. Agreedcontract length not applied

2. Unauthorised removal of fees frommy bank account

3. General bad customer service

1. Agreed contract length not applied

Ioriginally negotiated an upgrade in February 2010 for a new contract with a newmobile phone handset with O2. The agreed contract was an 18 monthterm. At the end of the 18 months I requested an upgrade and wasdenied. At this point I was informed that my contract term was 24 months- this was a shock as this had never been agreed with myself. When Ichallenged this issue I was told that I had signed a contract for this upgradeand that the length of contract was clearly printed on my mobile phone billsthat I was sent each month as well as on the actual contract. This bringsme to two further issues. Firstly, I never received NOR signed for anycontract and then was subsequently told by O2 that I must it must havebeen what your customer services termed an “audio signature” - they themselvesseemed very unsure ! Irrespective, O2 has been unable to provide anyproof of contract - whether that be written or verbal - this is because no such24 month contract ever existed. Secondly, my bills are held online andthe debits taken automatically from my bank account. My paymentshave been pretty much as expected therefore there has been no call for me toreview my actual online bills. My call patterns have been consistent formany years. Any serious changes in billing would only have caused me toreview potential calls or charges made - not general billing information orterms & conditions. As you can appreciate, this is not a reasonableexpectation to have.

2. Unauthorised removal of monies from my bank account

Irecently spent some time travelling to various regions abroad which,unfortunately, were reported to be rife for bag and purse thefts. Toavoid any issues with stolen phones and the problems of loss of associatedphone data etc…, a basic handset was taken away. Upon our return, Ireturned the sim to my original handset. After leaving the house thatevening, I tripped on the doorstep and dropped my phone - it skidded under thecar that my husband was reversing as we were going out and he unfortunatelycaught the handset with the car breaking the screen. I rang in the incident thenext day as the phone could not be used and requested a screen replacement onthe insurance that I have been paying for for several years. Only to betold by a member of your customer services team that my handset insurance wasnot valid nor had it been since before the beginning of my current contract -that it had expired some considerable time ago and that there was nothing theycould do. After the initial shock of this had worn off, I rang back anddemanded that they either refund all my payments for the insurance as they werefully aware the insurance contract was not valid and yet had been takenpayments which, as per my solicitors advice, is basically unauthorised removalof monies from my bank account - or alternatively they could make sure that theinsurance contract was honoured. I was advised rather rapidly that thiswould be honoured as my payments for the insurance has continuously beenaccepted to-date. A day or so later I received a call from O2 insurancesaying that as I had removed the chip from the insured handset then it wasinvalidated. I pointed out that my insurance details did not contain thisclause from the set issued several years ago when the contract was initiallyset up and that no update had been sent since. O2 staff insisted that mysim chip was currently active in a Nokia handset. When I pointed out thatI did not own a Nokia handset nor had any member of my family for several yearsand also that the basic handset used abroad was actually another Sony Ericsonhandset, they refused to accept this and basically accused me of lying.

Ialso pointed out from my legal advisors that my insurance covered the handsetand not my sim card. As my O2 sim card was the insured handset at thetime of the accident then it more than fulfilled the terms and conditions ofthe insurance contract. O2 informed me that no further discussion wouldbe made regarding my insurance that they would cancel any further payments forthis being taken. As you can appreciated, this is by no means acceptable.

3. General bad customer services

Onone particular call discussing my contract length a member of customer servicesteam stated, as I quote … “we do not make mistakes madam …” which I find to beincredibly patronising and considering the above - fundamentally incorrect.

Evenafter paying to have the screen replaced myself, there were still other issueswith the phone caused by the accident that made the handset very difficult touse. I called customer services and tried to reopen the previousissues but they refused to do so and the response was to send a complaintin writing. I did - but no response has ever been received from O2.

Havingbeen saddled with either using a very basic handset without the functions I usedaily or alternatively using a malfunctioning handset, I rang to try to arrangean early update only to be told that I would have to pay £85.10 for theprivilege ! Again - not acceptable.

Basically,O2 appear to have done as much as they can to prevent having to take anyresponsibility for their actions which I find to be completelyunacceptable. I was paying for a service that I was just not getting andalso paying for a service that was not actually valid !

Thisappalling customer service was the final straw and I felt I was left with noother option but to leave O2 as all trust in your ability to deliver an adequateor even basic level of customer service had gone. As such, I have portedmy number from O2 to Vodafone. I was informed by O2 that I would have topay a fee of around £130 for cancelling my contract early, however, there wasno actual agreed contract in force at the time of my porting my mobile numberto another company, therefore, this cancellation fee is not valid nor legallyenforceable as no actual contract was in place at this tie. Indeed, O2have actually received additional incomes from myself beyond the end of myagreed 18 month contract.

Also,as I have been reliably informed by your own O2 customer services staff that myinsurance policy was expired and was not even valid prior to my even taking outthe last contract with you and that they could not work out exactly when itexpired, then I have to assume I have been charged for a non-existent policyfor quite some time. I would therefore like a refund. As O2 haveinformed me that the date is definitely some time considerably prior to my lastcontract being taken out then I will assume an insurance expiry date ofDecember 2008 which is roughly halfway through the previous contract. Therefore, a refund for the last 32 months worth of charges at £4.99 totals£159.68 PLUS vat. Obviously, I am happy for this to be recalculated oncea confirmed expiry date is given with documented proof from yourselves.

Aspreviously stated, legal advice has been taken on all aspects of these issuesand we are prepared to take the necessary legal proceedings to recoupunauthorised payments taken by O2.

Iwould very much appreciate your comments on the above and look forward tohearing your speedy resolutions to prevent further escalation of these matters.

If an appropriate and acceptable response is notreceived within 14 days then this will be followed with a formal ‘letter beforeaction’ as a prelude to the commencement of legal proceedings against O2.

As you can see she is very upset and prepared to do what it takes with O2 - I can't understand why they appear to have done everything possible to lose a customer who was with them for many years.

I would appreciate any advice on what our next steps should be in terms of getting what is due from O2.

Thanks in advance.

A n d r e w

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi Andrew,

 

Firstly, welcome to the Vodafone network - I trust that everything is running smoothly with us so far.

 

In regard to the concerns you've mentioned below there's naturally not a great deal I can do directly to assist you but I'm happy to provide as much advice as I can.

 

Further to the steps you've taken so far I'd recommend following matters up with them again and also state that you consider the account to be in dispute in order to provide the opportunity of having this logged on your account with them and as such have this reflected on your credit file as oppose to adverse information indicating late payment.

 

If you didn't previously I'd send your correspondence via recorded delivery and keep your reference slip safe just in case you need to refer to it at a later date.

 

Best wishes and let me know how you get on.

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[Andrew-P]

Thanks for the comments and advice.

 

I will keep posted on what happens next - as yet we have had no reply from O2

[locutus]

Thanks for the comments and advice.

 

I will keep posted on what happens next - as yet we have had no reply from O2

 

Read this web page here and get your complaint escalated through their complaints procedure.

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?320647-Harrassed-by-Capital-one-and-vodaphone

 

Have moved HarrassedbyCapitalOne's posts and the answer by locutus to a thread of its own. Linked above :

[raydetinu]

02 usually pretty good and normally confirm new contracts by a letter etc.

you just have to plugging away and get an full response in writing from them.

E mail or write to them in future, no more phone calls.

good luck.

[Andrew-P]

An Update ----

 

We heard nothing from O2 until this afternoon when a letter arrived from ‘Moorcroft Group plc’ stating the account has a balance of £144.31 and asking us to contact them. I have no problem with this letter as such – it is clear and business like – although I am livid with O2 who are acting in a very unprofessionl way in my view.

 

I plan to send the following letters to Moorcroft and O2 respectively and would appreciate any thoughts on their suitability and any changes that should be made. Also if anyone could point me in the direction of a ‘Letter Before Action’ which I can use to reclaim insurance payments for a service which O2 simply failed to deliver.

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

A n d r e w

 

Letter to Moorcroft

 

Moorcroft plc

Moorcroft House

PO Box No. 17

2 Spring Gardens

Stockport

SK1 4AJ

 

FAO A J Martin

 

Your Reference: 003285049989(D-PC123)

 

15th November 2011

 

Dear Sir,

 

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 12th November 2011 and am writing to inform you that this account is currently in dispute and that your client, Telefonica O2 (UK) Limited have failed to provide any information to substantiate their claim that any monies are currently owed to them.

 

I would also point out that under guidance published by the Office of Fair Trading “Debt Collection Guidance – Final guidance on unfair business practices” section 2.8k states that you should now cease to pursue this reasonably queried and disputed debt and that under section 2.6h that any further pursuance of this alleged debt will be considered harassment.

 

For the avoidance of doubt I am keen to resolve this matter but as yet O2 have not provided any proof that they are owed any money and a claim is currently being prepared against them for monies paid for insurance services not provided.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Letter to O2

 

Telefonica O2 (UK) Limited

260 Bath Road,

Slough,

Berkshire

SL1 4DX

 

A C C O U N T I N D I S P U T E

 

15th November 2011

 

Ref:

Dear Sir / Madam

 

We have received a letter from your agents, Moorcroft Group plc, in pursuance of an alleged debt the contents of which have been noted. As this alleged debt is in dispute this is contra to guidance from the Office of Fair Trading and should not have been passed to your agents. Please note that other than an acknowledgment to your agent explaining that there is a dispute we will not be entering into any further correspondence with them.

 

Furthermore, you have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/78 by e-mail. A `’read receipt’ for this e-mail was received on the **DATE**. You have failed to comply with my request.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become currently unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment. This is in addition to action being taken to recover overpayments taken by yourselves with regard to insurance not provided.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit and also to pursue my own legal action to recover monies paid for insurance which was not provided.

 

You have 21 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I look forward to hearing from you. This should be in writing, I have no wish to correspond by telephone.

 

Yours faithfully

[locutus]

The downside here is that mobile service is not "credit" so the consumer credit act does not come into play.

[Andrew-P]

The downside here is that mobile service is not "credit" so the consumer credit act does not come into play.

 

Thanks for this.

 

I am so glad I posted here before we sent the letters.

[locutus]

Yeah, nothing worse than quoting the wrong regulations and them getting to reply a snotty letter stating "thats deosn't apply to us".

 

Apart from that the letter to morecroft looks good to go. Add to the o2 letter that you would like an update on how far they are with handling your complaint, and if they will issue a DEADLOCK letter.

 

 

Keep us updated, and let us know how they reply.

[Andrew-P]

1. Letter to O2

Telefonica O2 (UK) Limited

260 Bath Road,

Slough,

Berkshire

SL1 4DX

 

A C C O U N T I N D I S P U T E

15th November 2011

 

Ref:

Dear Sir / Madam

 

We have received a letter from your agents, Moorcroft Group plc, in pursuanceof an alleged debt the contents of which have been noted. As this alleged debtis in dispute this is contra to guidance from the Office of Fair Trading andshould not have been passed to your agents. Please note that other than anacknowledgment to your agent explaining that there is a dispute we will not beentering into any further correspondence with them.

 

Furthermore, you have failed to respond to my formal request to supply me anyevidence that the contract was 24 months rather than the 18 months agreed toover the telephone. As a copy of thecontract was not provided in writing you are in breach of the ConsumerProtection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 as you failed to provide:

· clear information about the supplier,the goods or services and the sale before deciding to buy;

· confirmation of this information inwriting;

You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and theOFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptiveand/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when adebt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wronglypursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonablequeried or disputed debt'

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFULand VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawfulharassment. This is in addition to action being taken to recover overpaymentstaken by you (totalling £159.68 plus VAT and interest) with regard to insurancenot provided.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authoritiesas I see fit and also to pursue my own legal action to recover monies paid forinsurance which was not provided.

 

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentionsto resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I look forward to hearing from you. This should be in writing, I have no wishto correspond by telephone.

 

Yours faithfully

[citizenB]

I look forward to hearing from you. This should be in writing, I have no wishto correspond by telephone.

 

You could add on to the final sentence above..... This is to avoid any misunderstanding or misinterpretation"

[Andrew-P]

An update - this is still going on.

 

We have not yet taken them to court due to other time pressures.

 

They have now apparently sold the alleged debt - can they do this when it is under dispute?

 

For reference they have still to provide any evidence to support their claim - even when a SAR was eventually returned.

[Somebody Told Me]

As this remains unresolved I think it's now time to refer matters to their Ombudsman so that they can be reviewed on an independent basis.

Also, check your credit file and if they've record a default I'd contact the CRA's to add a Notice of Correction to explain that the account is subject to a dispute.

[Andrew-P]

Well the alleged debt has been sold to another company Lowell Financial who have been in touch yet no-one has still demonstrated that any debt exists.

 

Is it the Financial Services Ombudsman we need to complain to?

 

Thanks again for everyone's help