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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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Unfair parking ticket!!


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On 12 July i had a very depressing experience with a parking attendant in wandsworth outside my house. We have residents parking in our street from 9.30-10.30am every day. At 9.30am i parked just outside my house on a yellow line for about 2 minutes as i had forgotten my phone. When i had got the phone and went outside again, i found a parking attendant standing looking at my car and his watch. I apologised to him, explained i was in the process of moving house etc etc and was shocked when he did not even acknowledge my presence but continued to look at his watch.

 

Realising what was up (aren't I allowed 5 minutes leyway before a ticket is issued?), I got in the car, did a 3 point turn and pulled over on the adjacent street to look at my map (car still running). The parking attendant started printing out a ticket and started to chase after me so I pulled away. The ticket was not stuck to my car and therefore I assumed that it had not been issued.

 

Today I received a charge certificate from Wandsworth Borough Council demanding £120 in reference to the ticket that was never issued. In addition, they are saying that a Notice to Owner was issued on 10 August which I never received.

 

i am now in the very depressing situation that I have 14 days to act before legal action is taken with apparently no right to appeal as apparently this can only done at the PCN stage.

 

I'm clearly not keen to have bailiffs knocking on the door but it will irritate me enormously to pay up. Anyone with any thoughts on my legal position would be most welcome. Help!

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the ticket needs to be attatched to your car, (anywhere it doesnt matter) before it is legal however its your word against his and he has a target to meet so he will keep it up saying you were issued with it.

Data Protection Act sent 27/06/06

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Any views on whether i have a right to appeal now that it has reached the charge certificate stage? Also, given that we never received the Notice to Owner the charge has now gone upto £120 - do the Council have to prove that the Notice to Owner was sent out? Anyone got any advice or is it a case of we just have to pay up?

thanks

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Write to them stating this is the first you have heard of it and wish to appeal. State your grounds for appeal, and also tell them that since you never received the ticket, you reserve the right to pay at the discounted rate.

 

They should allow your appeal, if for no other reason that when they take you to court they know you will stand up and say "I never got the ticket and when i found out they wouldn't let me appeal". They know that in the interests of jutices they will not be able to enforce the ticket if they haven't been seen to act fairly.

 

If all goes well you should get your appeal (the council will turn it down they always do), you now have a choice.

 

1. Take it further i.e. NPAS

2. Pay up, (but you can now agrue that you should pay at the discountewd rate of £30.00)

 

If you go to NPAS, bear in mind that you are admitting that you parked illegally, (there is no 5 minute grace, this time is for wardens to make sure you are parked illegally and not doing something you are entitled to do e.g. unloading, but they do not have to wait 5 minutes.) so if it comes down to your word against the wardens you will lose.

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the pcn should also contain the serial number of your tax disc, if you watch parking wardens issue a ticket with the use of digital camera thet will always take a picture of the disc.

just reply saying that there was no pcn attached to your car, if they cannot supply the tax disc number, then they will proberly cancel the pcn due to "technical reasons" if, as has happened to me, they write back and ask you for the tax disc no. do not supply it.

if on the other hand they can supply the number it will weaken your case, and the best you can do is try to get the reduced rate.

:mad:LF53
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sorry, just noticed the bit about notice to owner, that has also happened to me (i,m a licensed taxi driver) they should send you a form that you take to the local court, cant remember if its majestrates or county, as i have been to both over parking tickets. they will stamp it and then you return it to your local authority and then you get the right to appeal at the reduced rate.

:mad:LF53
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You wil find the form here.

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/files/OOTApplicationPack.pdf

 

Complete the form and take them to your local county court to swear the declaration. You will not be charged for the Stat Dec or for having it sworn.

 

Your PCN should then revert back to them sending you a Notice to Owner.

 

You can then make your representations.

PUTTING IT IN WRITING & KEEPING COPIES IS A MUST FOR SUCCESS

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The NPAS decision linked below about driveaways is worth reading.

I had a similar experience with Manchester City Council last year - in that case, the warden had inputted my vehicle details before the P&D ticket had expired and then waited for a few minutes before printing it out so the time stamp on the PCN would make it look like the ticket had expired. Unfortunately for her, I came back before she could print the ticket. It was cancelled immediately after I wrote to the Council.

 

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/user_documents/YoniLaminavTFL.pdf

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  • 8 months later...

a couple of years ago, in canterbury, my daughter was issued a parking ticket for parking outside my pub while she was unloading the boot of the car. yes, a double yellow line but we were being continually told by the council that we were always allowed 20 mins before a ticket was given. she gt the ticket in the time it took to get from th car to the secondfloor of the pub. seconds!!!! but they kept insisting that she had been gone for more than 20 mins which was just untrue. we argued about it saying that the wardens in canterbury never stoo and watched, but went off somewhere for the 20 mins then came back, and teh car they saw when they came back, wasnt the same car that had been there first of all. they wouldnt have any of it. interestingly, the parking notice said that it was a blue car and she had a green car, so we took it all the way to tribunal. this process took almost ayear!!! we took along the registration document and after the head of parking had really given it some heavy talk, even though the photo taken was such a bad photo you couldnt even see that there was a car there, and mr.adjudicator asked of there was anything ese we wanted to add to our case before he made his decision, i just said 'actually yes. we dont have a blue car' showed him the reg doc with which he said 'case dismissed'

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I do not understand the issue about residents parking and the single yellow line where you in the resident day or not?

A single yellow line is a no parking waiting restriction (loading only) if this was in force you were technically in contravention the minute you left your car.

Most councils give 5 minutes observation to check if loading is taking place but Wandsworth give 2 minutes which they are entitled to do.

The ticket should be attatched to the vehicle but like previous posters state its your word against theirs.

The VEL tax disc number is not required on the PCN under the RTA 1991 otherwise untaxed vehicles would not get parking tickets it is just extra info to prove the councils case like the car colour etc which also is not needed by law.

You cannot involve the courts in London as parking is not a criminal offence you have to go to the parking appeals adjudicator.

Photos of the vehicle are also not needed to prove the councils case they just increase the odds in their favour many councils do not even use cameras.

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A single yellow line is a no parking waiting restriction (loading only) if this was in force you were technically in contravention the minute you left your car.

 

It can be, but it isn't necessarily. A single yellow line signifies that a restriction exists for a period less then 'at any time'.

 

The actual restriction must be posted on signs parallel to the road - at least one per length of yellow line - or identically on all CPZ entry signs. A CPZ fails if any single sign on any possible entrance to the CPZ is defective, regardless of whether the driver entered that way or otherwise.

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i have just sucessfully won a case here in southport, when i parked for three hours on lines i considered were not enforcable citing case healeyvdavis, which the council rejected, but was unheld by the NPAS AJUDICATOR.-------------my advise is to go all the way if the yellow lines do not conform to the regulations, and take plenty of pictures.

attend the hearing in person, the council will just send loads of maps and waffle.in my case, the lines were double, double for a length of 12 metres, that is, two sets of double side by side, and no T bars plus gaps where the road had been repaired.the council said the lines were enforcable under my car, but i argued that one portion cannot be legal and the rest unenforcible,in other words, the whole sign must be according to regulations to be effective.-----------all this costs nothing, so take "em all the way, and notify the local press when you are advised you were right all along!

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  • 3 months later...
HI my names keith and i got stuck in a lift whilst repairing a photocopier in newbury and was late back for my parking ticket.and had a penalty charge i appealed explaining my situation but they said in so many words tough,is ther anything i can do as £70 is a lot of money to me.

 

You had a Fixed Penalty Notice - Newbury is not decriminalised parking. The only courses of action left to you are pay the FPN or take your case to the Magistrates' Court - be aware that to do the latter, you must follow the instructions on the FPN; if you do nothing, the next thing is bailiffs.

 

I would suggest that if you are going to Court, I would obtain some evidence Statement? Call out sheet?) about being stuck in the lift.

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You had a Fixed Penalty Notice - Newbury is not decriminalised parking. The only courses of action left to you are pay the FPN or take your case to the Magistrates' Court - be aware that to do the latter, you must follow the instructions on the FPN; if you do nothing, the next thing is bailiffs.

 

I would suggest that if you are going to Court, I would obtain some evidence Statement? Call out sheet?) about being stuck in the lift.

 

 

Unless of course it was in a Car Park when it would be an Excess Charge Notice ;)

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  • 11 months later...

My son parked on an Aberdeen city centre street overnight, and went back the next day to pick up his car. Some weeks later he received a £60 penalty notice, payable within 30 days - or else. It related to the previously noted overnight stay, when he received a £30 penalty notice. This was apparently attached to his car at the time, but was not there when he went to pick it up.

 

My question is, is this a legal way of issuing fines in somebody's absence? Even if the warden took a photograph, there is nothing stopping somebody from removing it - or indeed being blown away by the wind! Does anybody have a view on this?

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  • 3 months later...
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