my mums catalogue bill isnt getting any lower

[lisamellor]

im really sorry for this thread being all over the place!!

 

my mum has a cat debt that is with a dca and the balance is not going down. it seems that every time she pays something she is being charged the same amount in admin charges

 

if my mum has late payment charges and admin charges can she claim these back? i am assuming so. so please tell me if im wrong!

 

also if i request that they send me the original contract when she opened the account if they can not provide this does this mean that they cant keep the bill open? and will they hae to write it off ?

 

lisaxx

[lisamellor]

right ive got all her statements dating from aug 02 to jul 05. i think it was then that it got passed to a debt collection agency.

 

on these statements (all in order by the way!) it has extra care insurance that adds up to around £180.00

and admin charges there are 3 of

10.00, 15.00 & 5.00.

 

this is not including the debt collection letters that i will go through when i know whats what!

 

now because they put this extra care onto her account can she claim these back as she didnt sign anything and didnt request it either. do they have to have a signed agreement saying that she agrees to the extra care?

 

also will she be able to claim back the admin charges?

 

any help would be much appreciated!

 

also do the catalogue company have to have a signed agreement of her opening her account?

 

i have just looked throught the dca letters and there are late payment charges and handling fees and a gone away registration fee also is on there. can these be claimed back?

 

many thanks

lisaxx

[lisamellor]

right i have now got in front of me numerous letters off many different dca's.

 

i contacted one dca in jan 06 to make a payment plan.

 

we received a letter off LEGAL DIRECT RECOVERIES dated 16/1/06 saying

this is confirm the agreed repayments on your account. amount due £5.00 the 1st payment and every month thereafter for a further 3 payments bla bla bla.

 

then there is a letter dated 18/1/06 from MOORCROFT DEBT RECOVERY saying you have not contacted us to discuss repayment for this debt.

in order to stop more serious action we are prepared to accept payments of 60.00 per month.

 

then a letter dated 2/2/06 of a MIDASLEGALSERVICES with a litigation warning saying that we have failed to reach a repayment agreement with moorcroft debt.

 

then another letter of moorcroft saying that she has defaulted on her agreement to pay 60.00 per month. (she did not agree to pay this much as she barely has enough to live on)

 

so i really do not know what to do to help her out. she is on a very very low income. she is on incapacity benefit and get 95. per week and out of this she has to pay 22.00 per week rent and 6.00 council tax. also due to the illness my mum has she is on tablets for the rest of her life which she has to pay for. she also has to pay for her glasses and the dentist. so she is really skint.

 

 

also can i ask for a copy of the credit agreement? with it being a catalogue she didnt sign one and should she have done?

 

please can some one give me some advise here?

 

thanks lisaxxx

[lisamellor]

bump

[lisamellor]

another bump!!

 

anyone out there who can help me out here?

 

lisaxxx

[sleepz]

Can't really help on this one, but hey, at least it's bumping the post up again

 

I get a bit confused when I see "small charges" like that, say anything up to £15.

I kinda figure a charge up to £15 is ok, after the OFT said a Credit Card charge shouldn't be more than £12 I kinda figured I wouldn't try and claim back any charges within that kind of region.

You probably can claim them back, I didn't bother trying with mine because I thought it might undermine my claim as a whole if I was claiming back charges that the OFT have deemed acceptable.

 

I guess you could write a SAR and ask the Cat company to provide you with a copy of the original contract, see if they do have it. You could probably argue the legality of them claiming the money back if there is no contract in place (ie they lost it), but then again they could argue that you are purchasing physical products and by making an order you are agreeing to buy that item ... ie you knew when you bought it that you'd have to pay for it, that's common sense wether you have a contract or not.

 

As for the Debt recovery people, those guys are ruthless, but you need to reply to their correspondance. Ie, if they say "you'll pay £60 per month", you can't ignore that, you have to either pay it, or at least talk to them about it, see if you can get the payments down or something, point to remember, never ignore these people.

 

It's a tricky one, and I don't know anything about Catalogues so im just basically speeling out what's in my head at the moment, with no faith in what im saying, or knowledge to go on.

[sleepz]

Check out this topic for some Littlewoods / Moorcroft problems, Looks like it may be of help to you.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/27830-moorcroft.html

[lisamellor]

cheers sleepz.

 

this is what i have decided to do!

 

i am going to send littlewoods 2 letters

 

letter one) to put the account in dispute

letter two) to request they send me the original signed agreement. they will have 12 days to send me this info and it will cost £1.00

once the 12 days are up they will have a extra 30 days. then if they havent send me the original contract then they will have to cancel the debt and will have to remove the defaults placed on my mums credit file. ( but that may be a different matter, and ill take that on when it comes to it)

 

i am also going to send the debt collection agency a letter informing them that the account is in dispute, and that they should make no further contact.

 

i will keep you all informed!

 

lisax

[ukaviator]

Hi Lisa

 

Here is a letter ROOSTER UK has written:

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974 s78 (1) Demand

 

1. I require you to supply me with a true copy of the credit agreement under which this account is conducted. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.78 (1) for running – account credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 cheque (xxxxxx) in payment of the statutory fee.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, under S189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Furthermore you are reminded that under s78 sub section (6) whilst the default continues you are not entitled to enforce the agreement in law

 

 

Yours faithfully

If your mum did'nt sign anything,then there is no agreement.She has to get copies of anything that she has signed to look over.With regards to catalogues when you take out an account,you get a small form to fill in requesting the catalogue.This also has the credit agreement on it.Not a big form like taking out a loan or credit card.

I would write to the companies involved and ask them for all of the paper work relating to their claims, and if there are ,any credit agreements with them.

If your mum does owe this money,then she can come to an agreement to pay it back.She will however have to fill in a form with her incoming and outgoing expenses on.This will show how much,if anything at all, she can payback.Also request that all interest is frozen at this time.It would be seen to be unreasonable by the companies involved to go down the routes they have taken without credit agreements in place.

One thing i will mention though,and i don't know how old your mum is,but you do find that some elderly take out loans for cars and home improvements,and they automatically think it is just a sign here and all will be done.They don't read the agreements small print.Elderly are a bigger risk,so their interest rate maybe higher than normal.Remember,when they were young,an agreement was a handshake at the bank with the manager.Now it is seen as reaching for your purse or wallet..

Hope this helps..

Ukaviator

 

 

[JonCris]

Can't really help on this one, but hey, at least it's bumping the post up again

 

I get a bit confused when I see "small charges" like that, say anything up to £15.

I kinda figure a charge up to £15 is ok, after the OFT said a Credit Card charge shouldn't be more than £12 I kinda figured I wouldn't try and claim back any charges within that kind of region.

You probably can claim them back, I didn't bother trying with mine because I thought it might undermine my claim as a whole if I was claiming back charges that the OFT have deemed acceptable.

 

I guess you could write a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and ask the Cat company to provide you with a copy of the original contract, see if they do have it. You could probably argue the legality of them claiming the money back if there is no contract in place (ie they lost it), but then again they could argue that you are purchasing physical products and by making an order you are agreeing to buy that item ... ie you knew when you bought it that you'd have to pay for it, that's common sense wether you have a contract or not.

 

As for the Debt recovery people, those guys are ruthless, but you need to reply to their correspondance. Ie, if they say "you'll pay £60 per month", you can't ignore that, you have to either pay it, or at least talk to them about it, see if you can get the payments down or something, point to remember, never ignore these people.

 

It's a tricky one, and I don't know anything about Catalogues so im just basically speeling out what's in my head at the moment, with no faith in what im saying, or knowledge to go on.

 

sleepz The OFT DID NOT say that ANY amount was acceptable They stated that whilst they did NOT suggest the amount was lawful they would not take any action if the charges fell too or below £12 & that consumers are still entitled to pursue charges at whatever level. It is for the money lenders to prove their charges are lawful (which they can't). & you should claim for ALL charges otherwise you won't be able to go back & get them. If you haven't you have made a major error

[give_me_it_back]

JonCris is absolutely right. You must claim for the whole amount. See the OFT statement on their website to back up what we are saying.

[sleepz]

Can I just say, in my defence, that I never said "don't claim them all back", and as for the OFT ruling, I think I semi-clearly stated how the charges related to me when I worked out my claim and never stated that Lisa shouldn't try and claim all charges back.

[JonCris]

Of course what you claim is upto you & I'm not having a go but after reading your post 6 again its clear that you have not claimed those charges you think are near to the OFT statements. To suggest this as a course of action is misleading to those newcomers who don't know any better & could result in them being very poorly compensated .

 

You also stated that the OFT said a charge should be "no more than £12" Not correct & again very misleading for you to claim such.

 

Sorry if this seems like having a go I'm sure like most here you meant well but really it's intended to correct any wrongs your info might impart to newcomers.

 

As for the money lenders we take no prisoners here

[lisamellor]

wheh i send the letters off to request my mums signed agreement they will have so long to give me the agreement.

 

if they dont provide this info then i will go along the road to get it wiped off.

 

if they do have an agreement and they send a copy of it to me, then it will be at this stage that i go into seeing exactly how much she has been charged, i will then claim ALL of the charges back, and then i will send a budget to them along with the letter requesting them to wipe the debt off completely.

 

i dont want to go into all the charges etc at the moment as if they havent got the contract then it will be just a matter of closing the debt.

 

i may even look at claiming the charges back! depends on how cheeky i feel at the time.

 

but tbh my main concern is to get the accounts in dispute, so my mum can have a bit of breathing space from it all.

 

by the way shes not elderly, late 40's.

she has just had a very very hard time. and tbh she really doesnt deserve it all, she is a fantastic mum and gran to my kids. so if i have to i will pay the catalogue bill for her, but i would rather it get wiped off.

 

cheers all

 

lisaxx

[lisamellor]

i called both dca today to request the balance owing.

 

i have informed both dca's that i am putting the account in dispute

 

both wanted to know why, and kept going on and on with themselves, so i just said all information will be posted to yourselves.

 

lisaxx

[JonCris]

Why oh why are you phoning these people. Unless you can record your telephone conversations very strongly suggest you don't do it. They will deny any conversation took place when it suits them. Also they may redouble their efforts to recover the debt BEFORE your demand reaches them.

[lisamellor]

i needed to call them to see what the balance was any way.

and on a letter of dispute that i found it says regarding our recent conversation.

"I am writing to you following a telephone conversation on the (inset date) regarding the outstanding amount of £***. I informed your operator that the amount owing on this account is now in dispute"

i had to open the letter in some way and this was the only letter that i found.

seeing as this was the only way i thought there was to go, i had to use this. As i dont know how to set out a letter asking them to place the account in dispute, so i found a dispute letter and used that.

i can not find a letter of dispute on the site anywhere, there most probably is one on here somewhere, but for the life of me i can not find it anywhere.

lisa

[JonCris]

If the balance is in dispute whats the point of knowing it! If you need any info from ask in writing & this is the letter below

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will communicate further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for rolling sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number 18012024.

 

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

4. Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

5. As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

6. Furthermore you are reminded that under s78 sub section (6) whilst the default continues you are not entitled to enforce the agreement in law

[lisamellor]

right!!

 

i havent posted the letters yet i was waiting for your reply!

 

i have got the letter requesting copy of agreement, but it does not say on the letter " i do not acknowledge any debt to your company"

 

i did not know what you just had to add that.

 

i just did what i thought was best.

 

i will copy this letter now and get it printed off and post it with the cheque.

 

cheers lisaxx

[lisamellor]

right i have sent the letters off to the catalogue company

 

i have not sent one to the dca yet. shall i send one to them now?

 

as i dont want to send the same letter to the catalogue company and the dca.

as i am not going to send a request for the contract to the dca as i have already sent it to the cat company now.

 

im getting flusterd now!

[JonCris]

Send the letter to the DCA. They will than almost certainly have to contact the creditor to get the docs.

[lisamellor]

so ill send the same letter to the dcas also?

 

do i enclose the £1.00 cheque with it aswell, even though i have sent a cheque to the cat company?

 

cheers lisaxx

[JonCris]

Yes to both questions

[lisamellor]

thankyou jon!

 

i was dreading coming back to the thread as i thought you'd shout at me again!

 

chees luv

lisaxx

[JonCris]

thankyou jon!

 

i was dreading coming back to the thread as i thought you'd shout at me again!

 

chees luv

lisaxx

 

Naw!.....................THIS IS ME SHOUTING