IB to ESA migration worry

[Nystagmite]

As for not being followed, I understood those going for medicals where "watched" leaving their cars to go into the centres, and that the assessment start from when you left your transport there.

 

This makes sense. I know this has happened to me when I've been for DLA tribunal.

[poollie1]

Sparky, pleased to hear you have a good result, as I understand the procedure for IB claimants being migrated to ESA the burden of proof lies with the DM to prove you are fit for work, your supporting evidence obviously proved you were not, hence support goup without an assessment.The burden of proof lies with existing and new claimants of ESA to prove they are not fit for work, hope I got that right? Rover87 the old Invalidity claimants are exempt from paying tax as I am. We were all transferred over to Incapacity when it came into force but only new claimants had to pay tax. Jamey125 it took 4 weeks from sending form off to receiving assessment date, although it does vary, I know someone who has been waiting 7 weeks, hope this helps.Orlok I also was lead to believe you are watched from the moment you enter the medical centre, but others who are reporting being followed say they are followed from their homes into the medical centre car park. They wont be able to follow me into the car park because there isn"t one, unfortunately I have to park in a public car park and walk the rest of the way, which is quite a long way away, I requested a home visit but was denied one.

Edited October 2, 2011 by poollie1

[Rover87]

Orlock - Sorry, I had not realised you were previously on Invalidity benefit. Incapacity benefit is taxable though for everyone else unless you were in the first 6 months or something...although new claims were abolished a few years ago. You only pay tax though if you earn more than your tax allowance.

 

I'm not convinced anyone would be following you - even if they did what good could it do them? It wouldn't be mentioned in the Atos report as it is not part of the assessment.

[poollie1]

I cant see it would do any good either, maybe they are trying to discredit our evidence, for instance I have stated I am only able to sit or stand for 10 mins at a time without feeling pain and discomfort making it difficult for me to travel to the medical centre without having to stop the car after 10 mins to relieve the pressure on my spine,( hoping I would be granted a home visit but that was denied) maybe that is cause to follow me to see if this is true.I cant understand why people would say this if it were not true, what would they gain from lying?.

[45002]

Hi,

 

I have been transferred from IB to ESA without a medical and put in the support group, well that's what I've been told over the telephone, but haven't had it in writing yet. I sent my ESA form in in July 2011, and upto now my payments into my bank account still say IB, so don't know whats happening, I was going to write to the DWP, but not sure where to send it.

 

Hi Sparky514

 

Have a read of this

 

About moving from IB to ESA http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/Illorinjured/DG_171894

 

Customers moving onto Employment and Support Allowance from incapacity benefits

 

You'll be told whether you're in the Support Group or Work-Related Activity Group after the review of your claim to:

 

• Incapacity Benefit
  
• Income Support paid on the grounds of illness or disability
  
• Severe Disablement Allowance
  

See 'How it works' section above for more information.

Your benefit will be transferred automatically and there will be no break in the payments you receive.

If the amount of incapacity benefit you get is more than the amount of Employment and Support Allowance, you’ll get a top-up payment. The amount of benefit you get won't rise until the amount of Employment and Support Allowance catches up with the amount of the top-up payment.

If the amount of incapacity benefit you get is lower than the amount of Employment and Support Allowance, you will get more money. Your money will increase as soon as you move to Employment and Support Allowance.

[Horus1]

Its all a big con, i have recieved incap and DLA since 2006, i have recently been for an atos medical where i was reansferred onto esa in the work related activity group, i am severely disabled and can barely walk because of pin at the best of times, i have just recieved a letter revealing thier real plans, it says as follows:

 

The government wants to change how long ESA can be paid for some people, the change has not been approved by parliament yet, but if this happens it will become law by spring 2012

 

this proposal is in the welfar reform bill which is currently going through parliament, changes may be made during the process, which is expected to be completed by the end of 2012,

 

we are writing to you because if the change becomes law it will affect your benefit, you currently get contribution based ESA, and you have been put in the work related activity group, the government want to limit how long you can get this to 12 months

[poollie1]

45002, what you say is correct, former invalidity/ incapacity claimants do get transferred automatically with no break in payments providing they pass, but these claimants such as myself who has been on invalidity/incapacity since 1993 still have to go through the migration process and pass the assessment to qualify for ESA, I am going through the process at the moment, assessment date 17th October. Another thing IB claimants must remember when attending an assessment to be migrated to ESA is that the burden of proof lies with the DM and therefore for the DM to gather their own evidence to prove that the claimant is fit for work, if they do not do this and the claimant fails the assessment that is very good cause for appeal, whereas the burden of proof lies with a new or existing ESA claimant to prove they are not fit for work and therefore collect their own supporting evidence, these are the differences between the two claimants, everything else is exactly the same process.And Horus1 that is also correct, if a claimant is placed in the work related group any payments will stop after 12 months, if of course this is passed in parliment and will take affect from April 2012.

Edited October 3, 2011 by poollie1

[45002]

45002, what you say is correct.......

 

poollie1

 

I not said anything,It's just a quote from direct gov website,I posted for Sparky514 who in the Support group..............................

 

See the link at #30

Edited October 3, 2011 by 45002

[poollie1]

45002, Sorry I misunderstood you, I thought you was infering all existing IB claimants got transferred automatically without the need for an assessment, which of course some claimants do without the need for an assessment because they supplied enough supporting evidence.

[count orlok]

I got my letter this am, I'm being moved to ESA from the end of this month. I did not have to attend an interview, but did have to fill out an assessment form (ES50?), and will be getting £99.85 plus a top-up payment.

 

I have been worried sick for months since they announced this, but in the end it was completely painless. I did not send any evidence other than a list of medicines, but i would imagine they would have written to my doctor.

[poollie1]

Orlok, thats good news for getting transferred without an assessment, it seems as if you have been put into the work related group if your payment is going to be £99.85 plus the top up payment, this is the difference between the work related payment and your existing payment. My question to you would be, are you happy at being placed into the work related group if this is the case? or do you think you should be in the support group?. If you think you should be in support group you only have one month from when the decesion was made to put in an appeal. I would suggest you ask the decesion maker for a statement of reasons as to why you have been placed into the work related group if this is the case, also as to wether the DM sought evidence regarding your case as the burden of proof lies with the DM to prove you are fit for work. If the DM has not sought evidence then you have very good course to put in an appeal, but remember you only have a month to do this. The DM"s do not always contact your gp/consultants. I would also ask for a copy of ATOS report.

Edited October 6, 2011 by poollie1

[count orlok]

Thanks Poolie, but I am in the support group, the weekly amount for the WRAG is £94.25. The top-up payment is indeed the difference between my present IB and ESA. The Long term IB rate is actually the same as ESA WRAG, so if I had been on that I would have got £5.60 extra and no top-up, but I was still getting the top-up to my IB that replaced the pension and age related components of Invalidity Benefit (that was frozen at the rate in was when IB started).

 

I didn't realise that ESA WRAG was the same rate as IB, with the support group being more. Also the All Work Test is more strict than the WCA. So in theory the new benefit should have been a lot fairer and more generous than IB, but because of its administation and ATOS it has worked out very unfair.

 

This also demonstrates how generous the old Invalidity benefit was (that was based on sick note from your own doctor that had to be taken to the then DHSS office). Even after being frozen for 15 years the difference between IB and Invalidity is still double the difference between the 2 ESA groups.

[poollie1]

Orlok glad to hear you got the right result, Just an update on my claim, ESA50 form went back to Atos 26th August, assessment date came through the letterbox scheduled for 17th October, since sending the ESA50 back I have been diagnosed with more illnessess by my GP, dangerously high blood pressure, high cholesterol and angina. GP has prescribed 4 more different medications for these conditions and sent me straight to Cardiology for a rapid assessment. I went to Cardiology yesterday ande consultant has informed me I require an Angiogram, I will be having this procedure done in the next couple of weeks. My question is should I inform Atos and the DM of my change in circumstances since they received my ESA50 before I go for the WCA? or just take the evidence with me to the assessment? any ideas please.

[count orlok]

When I filled out my ESA50 I had been for my angiogram and was waiting for angiplasty, had angina, my blood pressure has never been high, and my cholesterol is controlled by drugs. I've been having heart problems for about 10 years, had 3 angio grams and 3 lots of angioplasty. Had several heart attacks and many bouts of angina.

 

I'm not sure how it works if your condition worsens after you've sent off your ESA50, but I think you should tell them. After your angiogram you'll know what you need to have done. It depends how bad your angina is, but if you need to use your GTN more than a few times a day even if you do nothing you'll probably need angioplasty or more. I'm not a doctor though so you'll have to wait until your results, that's just what I was told.

[poollie1]

Thanks Orlok, I think you misunderstood me, I didn"t have this condition when I sent the ESA50 form off to Atos, my claim is for other illnessess, my Angina has only just been diagnosed so wondered wether it would be best to let DWP and Atos know before assessment that my health has deteriorated with yet another illness, or just take the evidence of the new illness to the assessment with me. I"m thinking if I let them know before they may reconsider as to wether I need an assessment.

[count orlok]

I did realise what you meant, but I think the DWP should be made aware of your new condition. I have other problems in adition to my heart but I got moved straight into the support group without having to have a medical. If you let them know of your heart problems you may not need to go to an medical either. They seem to ignore peoples' problems and make things up at the medicals so it seems best to avoid them.

[poollie1]

Thanks Orlok, How do you suggest I let them know, by Telephone or by writing to them? also what would you say to them if you were in my situation, cos I think your right, at assessment they seem to make it up as they go along so to avoid one would be a great relief to me.

[count orlok]

I would suggest more, telephone, email for speed and recorded delivery post for proof. When you phone them explain the situation and ask them if you need to resubmit a new ESA50 with your recently diagnosed conditions.

[poollie1]

Thanks Orlok, think your right, I will leave no stone unturned, I will let them know in every possible way, go and knock on their door if I have to, lol.... thanks again.

[poollie1]

Let Atos know of my new illnesse"s by Email, no reply as yet and also by letter, recorded delivery, could not find Email address for DWP so just sent a letter again recorded delivery. Since doing that went to see my GP Monday and had an Angina attack whilst at rest in his surgery, he got an ambulance and straight off to hospital I went, stayed there over night to be monitered, blood tests , Ecg etc, they let me home this lunchtime. If a person has an Angina attack whilst at rest, this is classed as unstable Angina, I think I have read somewhere that this condition is not called to a face to face assessment. Anyone else read this?.

[count orlok]

I had that and wasn't called in for a medical, got put straight into support group. Although I can't be certain what the reason was as i didn't bother to get a statement of reasons, and my heart is not my only problem.

 

I actually read that it used to give you automatic pass of IB test but they dropped that for ESA (but then I still got called to IB medicals). That makes no sense though, as the criteria for IB is more strict than for ESA. The CAB also documented the case of someone who was waiting for open heart surgery being passed as fit for work. I don't think anybody truly knows about ESA, even the people that administer it seem to have little clue what they are doing.