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    • Is all of this actually on the signage? Don't remember seeing that much detail on other threads.
    • If I have learnt one thing from this forum, it's not to call and communicate via email. I passed this info on to her and they are pushing for her to call them.    "Unfortunately, you will need to call us. The conversation won’t be so black and white as to therefore type over email. In a nutshell we can confirm that the request to not pay for 3 months we cannot put in place"  I emailed them back on her behalf and said that what ever is discussed over the phone will need to be put in an email so that she can review it properly. No decisions will be made on that phone call.    "Once we speak to you on the phone we will follow up with an email to confirm the options discussed. [Phone number]"   Why are they pushing for a phone call? If its not so black and white, why can they then follow up with an email?  
    • Appreciate input Andy, updated: IN THE ******** County Court Claim No. [***] BETWEEN: LC Asset 2 S.A.R.L CLAIMANT AND [***] DEFENDANT ************ _________________________ ________ WITNESS STATEMENT OF [***] _________________________ ________ I, [***], being the Defendant in this case will state as follows;     I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim.   1. I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much-reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already written off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimant’s witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights. This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information). The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party. 2. The Claim relates to an alleged Credit Card agreement between the Defendant and Bank of Scotland plc. Save insofar of any admittance it is accepted that the Defendant has had contractual agreements with Bank of Scotland plc in the past, the Defendant is unaware as to what alleged debt the Claimant refers. The Defendant has not entered any contract with the Claimant. 3. The Defendant requested a copy of the CCA on the 24/12/2022 along with the standard fee of £1.00 postal order, to which the defendant received a reply from the Claimant dated 06/02/2023. To this date, the Claimant has failed to disclose a valid agreement and proof as per their claim that this is enforceable, that Default Notice and Notice of Assignment were sent to and received by the Defendant, on which their claim relies. The Claimant is put to strict proof to verify and confirm that the exhibit *** is a true copy of the agreement and are the true Terms and Conditions as issued at the time of inception of the online application and execution of the agreement. 4. Point 3 is noted. The Claimant pleads that a default notice has been served upon the defendant as evidenced by Exhibit [***]. The claimant is put to strict proof to verify the service of the above in accordance with s136 and s196 Law of Property Act 1925. 5. Point 6 is noted and disputed. The Defendant cannot recall ever having received the notice of assignment as evidenced in the exhibit marked ***. The claimant is put to strict proof to verify the service of the above in accordance with s136 and s196 Law of Property Act 1925. 6. Point 11 is noted and disputed. See 3. 7. Point 12 is noted, the Defendant doesn’t recall receiving contact where documentation is provided as per the Claimants obligations under CCA. In addition, the Claimant pleads letters were sent on dates given, yet those are not the letters evidenced in their exhibits *** 8. Point 13 is noted and denied. Claimant is put to strict proof to prove allegations. 9. The Claimant did not provide a true copy of the CCA in response to the Defendants request of 21/12/2022. The Claimant further claims that the documents are sufficient to pursue a Judgement and are therefore copies of original documents in their possession. Conclusion 10. Without the Claimant providing a valid true copy of the executed Credit agreement that complies with the CCA, the Claimant has no grounds on which to enforce this alleged debt. 11. The Claimant has been unjustly enriched at the expense of the Defendant by purchasing bulk debt at a greatly reduced cost and subrogating for the original creditor in trying to recuperate the full amount of the original debt 12. The Defendant was not given ample evidence to prove the debt and therefore was not required to enter settlement negotiations. Should the debt be proved in the future, the Defendant is willing to enter such negotiations with the Claimant. On receipt of this claim I could not recall the precise details of the agreement or any debt and sought clarity from the claimant by way of a Section 78 request. The Claimant failed to comply. I can only assume as this was due to the Claimant not having any enforceable documentation and issuing a claim in hope of an undefended default judgment.   Statement of Truth I, ********, the Defendant, believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in it’s truth. Signed: _________________________ _______ Dated: _____________________
    • Morning,  I am hoping someone can help, I am posting on behalf of my friend so I will try and provide as much info as possible.  Due health reasons, she is currently not working and unable to pay her contractual car finance payments. She emailed 247 Money and asked for a 3 month payment holiday, they refused this straight away with no reasons as to why. They have told her that instead she can make a payment of £200. She is currently getting £400+ a month ssp so this is not acceptable. She went back to them and explained she cannot make this payment and they have not offered an alternative plan. Its £200 or she falls into default.  She is now panicking as she does not want her car to be taken away. What options does she have?  Thank you, 
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HSBC no CCA


spartathisis
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Thanks. Had another letter confirming they do not have a copy of CCA after demanding they stop being idle and go and check their storage facilities for my records.

 

They still insist it was taken out in 1996 (Mastercard took over) and theres me thinking I had an Access card for 10yrs prior to that ;)

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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Game over IMO.

 

No CCA = No pay. They cannot enforce this in court or take any further legal recourse, and if they are still processing your data on your CRF I would make a formal complaint to the ICO and say that they are in breach of the DPA.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Cheers.

 

I know have 3 letters from different people (all managers) in different departments stating they do not have the CCA and that it was opened in 1996. UUmm, I was unemployed 1996 and had been for 6 months prior to that and that damned Access card I had been using for years must have been a gift then :D

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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What was the slogan Access Gives You Freedom:madgrin:

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And they have sent a letter telling me they have increased my credit limit to £8500!!!! Irresponsible lending or what :D

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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I`m sure its old age, but I cant find the Account in dispute template, yes I have searched and gone into the letters library but still cant see it. Could someone post the link please?

 

Thank you :)

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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Ok, I have found the template, but have a slight problem with it.

 

I have not sought a copy under s78, so the relevance to that is not appropriate and the account being in dispute due to non compliance also refers to s78. I cant go saying the account is in dispute due to non production under s78 request, so any ideas?

 

Help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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And they have sent a letter telling me they have increased my credit limit to £8500!!!! Irresponsible lending or what :D

 

"LMFAO"

 

also, check out carey regarding varied agreements "DOUBLE STUFFED" or what

 

dave

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I would just compose a simple letter saying what

you are disputing and why, this will often get

a better response than a template, which is

really only intended to give guidance and ideas

how to format your letters.

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Could folks have a look at this and give me some input please, bare in mind info was sought through a SAR NOT s78 and the account was pre 2006 (they say 1996, I know it was some 7/8 yrs earlier).

 

Thanks.

 

 

I made a formal request for all the documentation you hold on the above account, you have failed to comply fully with my request, and as such I now regard the alleged account to be in default.

 

**** has confirmed on three separate occasions that there is no credit agreement relating to the alleged account in existence, this has therefore rendered this alleged account unenforceable in a court of law. *1 & *2

 

For your reference:

 

CCA 1974

s.61

"(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless -

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner”

 

S.127

Enforcement orders in cases of infringement

(1) In the case of an application for an enforcement order under -

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1) (a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner)."

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be seen as unlawful and vexatious, furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment. *3

 

I have not requested a copy under s78 of the CCA 1974, therefore a reconstituted copy (as defined by HHJ Waksman in Carey v HSBC et al) cannot be produced as a substitute.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any Credit Reference Agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must, within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I will accept this as your agreement to remove all such data by yourselves and those held by any credit referencing agencies.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

me

 

 

 

*1

Dimond v. Lovell [2000] UKHL 27; [2000] 2 All ER 897; [2000] 2 WLR 1121 (11th May, 2000)

 

Parliament intended that if a consumer credit agreement was improperly executed, then subject to the enforcement powers of the court, the debtor should not have to pay.

 

*2

The Vice Chancellor Lord Justice Chadwick in the Supreme Court of Judicature Court of Appeal (Civil Division) on Appeal from Epsom County Court (HHJ Hull)

 

Wilson v First County Trust [2000] EWCA Civ 278 (3 November 2000)

 

26. The question arises from the terms of s.61 (1), 65 and 127 to which I have referred in paragraphs 9 and 10. It is apparent from the terms of s.61 (1) that there are several grounds on which a regulated agreement may be "not properly executed" so as to require enforcement by court order under s.65. The restrictions on such enforcement contained in s.127 are in two forms; the first (s.127(1) and(2)) leaves it to the discretion of the court, the second contained in s.127(3) is an absolute bar if the regulated agreement did not contain the prescribed terms.

 

*3

Protection from Harassment Act 1997

1. - (1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct-

(a) Which amounts to harassment of another, and

(b) Which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other.

 

(2) For the purposes of this section, the person whose course of conduct is in question ought to know that it amounts to harassment of another if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other.

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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Well it looks good to me, I'll bump it

to get you other opinions.

 

Brig.

BUMP:bump2::bump2:

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Thanks, the more the merrier :)

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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Hi Spart..... you don't need to go into the ins and outs of various Acts. Let them deal with this as a complaint; leaving ample room for them to trip themselves up in writing. My suggestion is below. If they get sh*tty with you however, please don't forget that a CCA request can place an account "in dispute" in the legal sense but a SAR (which you've sent) does not. It can raise a dispute.... but does not place an account "in dispute"..... The fact that you haven't sent one might come back to bite you in the butt.... but facts are still facts (they don't have an Agreement) so it's no big deal at the moment.

 

COMPLAINT

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Your Ref: xxxxx

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

 

On xx/xx/xxxx, I made a formal request under the Data Protection Act 1998; for all documentation you hold pertaining to myself. xx days have now elapsed and you have failed to comply fully with my request. I am still waiting for xxxxxxxxxx

 

**** has confirmed on three separate occasions that there is no credit agreement pertaining to myself in relation to the above referenced account and as such, it is legally unenforceable (Consumer Credit Act 1974; sec 127 (3). Should you decide to issue legal proceedings in defiance of the Act however, your actions will be considered both unlawful and vexatious. Those actions will also be vigorously defended on a number of grounds, notwithstanding the above and reported to the relevant authorities without any further notice.

 

As you appear to have no signed authority to process my data at all (CCA 1974), please consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to cease processing any data in relation to myself and this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from any records with Credit Reference Agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must, within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

I await your considered response.

 

Yours faithfully

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I think a complaint like this needs to be escalated past

the ''customer service'' reps up to the Compliance manager'director

who is responsible for the conduct of the company in respect of law

and regulation, in my experience it gets better and quicker results.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

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Cheers P1, spot on.

 

With regards to the lack of a s78 request, what could be the consequences?

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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Cheers P1, spot on.

 

With regards to the lack of a s78 request, what could be the consequences?

 

The account is not "in dispute" in the legal sense.... so they may still chase you, despite stating that there's no Agreement. On the other hand, CPUTR is mentioned in the complaint in my last post, so they can't mislead you either.

 

Hard to say which way this will swing at the moment.... but if they do chase you, just send a CCA request! :-)

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Chase or attempt to go to court do you think? Not bothered about them chasing in the slightest.

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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AAHH, I can quote the SRA code of conduct on not misleading the court and then complain about them :D

 

If there is no CCA, how can they justify passing my details onto a 3rd party?

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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Dear Bill&Ben,

 

Thank you for your letter dated dd/mm.yyyy, the contents of which have been laughed at and forwarded to the OFT & TS & my local MP to have a giggle at.

 

Your failure to comply with my SAR has now been made a formal complaint, therefore until the ICO has carried out their investigation into your incompetent immature company, I will not enter into any further protracted willy waving.

 

See you in court.

 

:boxing:

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Dear Bill&Ben,

 

Thank you for your letter dated dd/mm.yyyy, the contents of which have been laughed at and forwarded to the OFT & TS & my local MP to have a giggle at.

 

Your failure to comply with my SAR has now been made a formal complaint, therefore until the ICO has carried out their investigation into your incompetent immature company, I will not enter into any further protracted willy waving.

 

See you in court.

 

:boxing:

 

:lol:

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Not sure that they have the right equipment to comply

with your suggestion BB certainly no BA**S IMHO:madgrin:

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am just putting my nose in on this one ref s.77 to s.79 requests for agreements

 

as we know, a creditor can send a reconstructed agreement to comply with the request

 

but that reconstructed agreement must be a doppel ganger of the original agreement to satisfy that request

 

if you dispute the recon agreement is duff

 

just send a cpr 31.16 request for the original or on the reconstructed agreement,

 

get them to certify its a copy of the original

 

no agreement, no enforceable debt

 

thats the way i see it

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