ORANGE - Obstinately determined to fail its customers

[madcatz]

Hi

 

I have just read a previous thread 'Orange and the brick wall' and am now feeling very disheartened as I have been going through the same problems with Orange for the past 8 weeks and reading some of those experiences I am now much less hopeful of a resolution. Almost 2 years ago I had to make a complaint to the exect office whose email address I obtained from this site (about something entirely different - abusive Orange retail staff and a problem with a SIM Only card for my PAYG phone which didn't work) to the exec office email address and their response was swift, apologetic and so helpful (as opposed to everyone else at Orange) I really hoped they would be again. But apparently not. Clearly they were more motivated then as I held all the cards - I had just had to get my phone unlocked at the market after their idiot staffs behaviour and was free to contract with any provider in the mall and was on the point of doing so. Orange offered such sincere apologies and a good enough deal I forgave them and stayed. Now they are not motivated and clearly do not care one iota what kind of service they provide. They seem to think that get your money for 24 months and they do not care if you have service or not.

 

I entered a new 24mth contract with Orange in January after remaining in that SIM only contract for 18 mths but at the start of April I moved house. I checked their coverage at the new address before moving and both Orange and TMobile claimed it was 'very good' inside and out. But after moving I discovered there was no 3g and very limited 2g coverage and I begain missing calls - going straight to voicemail. And I have had calls cut off mid conversation due to signal loss. Or been unable to connect and make a call due to weak or dropped signal. And mostly people say they cannot hear me when I do succeed in phoning them.

 

Orange started off telling me it was temporary due to engineering works on local masts and said it would be fixed by end April and I would be financially recompensed for any additional costs if I had to make calls from my landline instead. A second customer rep repeated this late April - and tried giving free photo messages (I didn't want) even though I pointed out I couldn't send them as sometimes data messages have to try 3 or 4 times. Then on 5 May (after was due to be fix) I was cut off twice during an important conversation so phoned Orange to complain. The customer rep complained he couldn't hear me.... which I pointed out was why I was phoning and he was the most helpful person I have spoken to, experiencing the problem first hand. He told me the previous info was wrong and there was some issue with the signal and he recommended I try registering on the TMobile network manually as it was stronger than Orange. If that failed I should call back and speak to a manager.

 

But while TMobiles network is sometimes stronger - it has rapid drop offs and I kepts getting messages the network was unavailable and 'please choose another' and more calls disconnecting or being missed. So I called back. At which point they suggested maybe the SIM or Phone was interferring with the signal and suggested they get tech support to phone back as perhaps I should be sent a different SIM to try..

But when they phoned back 2 days later - i just had the speil 'we don't guarantee service' and they refused to discuss or do anything to help. The manager was the same. And they would do nothing to help improve it or ensure I could access the network at all.

 

So I emailed the executiveoffice..and their response? To deny and refute that I have a problem. They keep insisting that they have a software that checks the phone performance and call drop off rates. Clearly they need to check this software as it doesn't work. They keep telling me calls which have been disconnected and cut off mid conversation - were not cut off because their software says they wer enot. And also 'their software' claims I have good signal and call quality and their is no indication of a problem. I expect this software is about as reliable as the software that says there is good 3g at my postcode (when in fact there is none) and good signal when it is almost nonexisitant. In fact my phone is registering signal strength of -99dBm It ranges between -93 and -113. Outdoors it only improves to the east (-79 and weak 3g), west it pretty much remains the same even outside. i have suggested they phone me instead of email - that way they will hear and experience for themselves the call quality.

 

I acknowledge what Orange and people keep quoting from their T&Cs about how they do not guarantee continuous fault free service but I think the more important thing to note is the first sentance in that clause:

 

We will take all reasonable steps to make the Services available to you at all times.

 

In my case they are not doing that. This means they have to make every attempt to ensure their service is available. There are no shortage of masts where I live. What Orange's 'Brick wall' is doing is failing to acknowledge that there is a problem in the service and therefore refusing to take any steps to try and address the problem.

 

Section 4.4 of the T&C allows for termination of the contract if Orange is no longer able to provide access to network service, or else oddly states they can purchase the coverage from another network, whatever that means. Orange already has access to two networks and still they are not succeeding in providing me with adequate netowrk service most of the time.

 

And even if they don't guarantee coverage all of the tiem they do need to be providing network service most of the time. Currently I have unreliable service (missed calls, disconected or unintelligible calls) 85% of the time. As I am disabled and largely at home my mobile is my connection to the outside world and has to work reliably. This is essential for health as well as social reasons.

 

Does Orange's emails stating they will not doing anything because they refute that I have a problem and deny my calls are being disconnected or I am missing calls give me the response I need to take the issue to CISAS? It has been 8 weeks since I first raised it with them verbally (but they gave me misinformation thus prolonging it). However I have only logged it with exec office in the last 10 days-2 weeks.

 

Unfortunately I have not kept a log of all missed and disconnected calls (because of several weeks i thought it was a temporary problem). I can start doing that but don't know how to resolve an argument with Orange claiming they were not. Calls that are on my history but never connected before they disconnected orange have no record of naturally. Don't know if anyway to upload call history from HTC.

 

It is my sincere regret that I made the decision to trust Orange in January enough to contract with them. I had hoped better after my previous experience. They have severely disapointed me.

 

Would appreciate any thoughts and advise. Sorry for long post..

 

Thanks

 

madcatz

 

 

[watchinginvestigation2011]

Well after the executive office told me not to take notice of what told verbally in their stores, also after proving even over the phone they were acting in the same manner re sales, yep the salesman representing orange, I realised they have a very backward attitude as in no signs of wanting to improve and myself are wondering why oh why did I trust orange. I will tell you why because thier salesman in the shop led me to think so, the same salesman that head office say we should not take thier word as good enough to believe as in what they paint they sell should be what they offer, not just their own interpretation of what is on offer leading to misleading and misselling.

 

If head office do not want to aknowledge such issues as yours and mine, they obvioulsy do not care as long as feel you are hitched to them for 24 or 18 months.

 

I will not be ripped off and suggest you also record all your calls to them.

 

Orange do not sell farily or manage accounts fairly and I ofcourse am only a new customer, why would someone want to stay when their faith has gone?

 

I have been requesting promptly for the two contracts to be cancelled due to miss selling and they also recodnise I had sight problems and their staff were reading the contract out to me was not questioned by them as a problem at the time. A verbal contract is just as legal as a written one and verbal sold to me was different to what they got me to signe, to extent they had to show me where to write as could not see the line to sign.

 

Can anyone trust them?

[madcatz]

I have to admit I am wondering what on earth possessed me right now. The main reasons are threefold: 1. There coverage has signifcantly improved since the merge with TMobile and I stopped experiencing dropp offs so I thought customer service aside the network coverage had improved (how wrong was i...) 2. Apart from the odd dippy and stupid customer rep I hadn't had significant problems since my bad start - I didn't want to make and out of the frying pan leap so to speak and 3. and probably most importantly, as someone who had stayed despite past troubles I was able to keep the contract price down lower than their competitors. Otherwise I would have walked. Now I wish I had done so anyway. Hindsight is always a glorious thing.

 

I have been given conflicting consumer legal advise. One consumer legal advisor advised that I write and suggest I will terminate the contract on grounds they are not providing the service and meeting their requirements of the contracct in terms of service provision but give them time to make that provision. Another pointed out I am moved from the address where I was when the contract started. But then Orange are a mobile service and the contract is not for a specific address. Furthermore they have claimed to provide good service at the new address and made no attempts to address the service issues or investigate the problems here. What has completely thrown me is Orange persistently refusing to believe and accept there is a problem. It is the most ridiculous thing of all and does nothing to resolve anything. Surey that should make a legal dispute simpler and easier to win- - because Orange are nto meeting their obligations to make every effort to ensure service provision....instead they are making no effort at all

[watchinginvestigation2011]

Exactly how I felt no effort coming across to want to even resolve issues, jsut either confused variations on what told by reps or head office fobb offs, I recorded all my calls and even have them insiting to me my contract is void, re their other error which they later resolved, but boy was that stressfull being told my contract was not good and they wold not honor it. They made me feel as if I was asking for too much just getting what sold in the store and to go away. You are also told other reps have made mistakes and we are expected to forgive that, yet when we make the mistake of trusting what told, we are told that is not acceptable.

 

Poor double standards.

 

I appreciate how frustrating you are finding it and please make note of all dropped calls, all problems and ring them every time to report every problem and record all calls to base a trail which you can then refer to as good reason for leaving them. I mean with me it was not that hard I just had to be a new customer asking for a good deal as I asked in the store, they did all the work in that they could not tell it as it was even when pushed and prodded, one even told me the reason he had stated it was unlimited was because he never knew anyone go over the 750mb and though it unlikely, I pointed out I found that hard to believe and suggested that he bares in mind next time we record calls too and pretending their is no cap or laying on thick unlimited not meaning our definition is miss selling.

 

Head office did not give diddly squat, they had a defiante attitude well despite what you have said we will not cancel the contract and just put up with it.

 

They I feel even though linked to t mobile dont have the same customer care of common sence that t mobile has. I was told orange had rolled out a care scheme of training to t mobile by the t mobile customer care and I thought oh god, well they cant equate their fobb off care with tmobile who listen so does that mean they are going down hill too........T mobile store told me they would not dream of treating their customers like orange and when it counts they are the same company, ha !!

[aaroh]

its terrible how orange UK just does not care!!! i posted the thread that you read "Orange and the Brick Wall". Im in the process of complaining to CISAS, today was the deadline for orange to reply to which they did not. I havnt got any hopes up as people who had experience with CISAS have not a single good. word to say about them!

[watchinginvestigation2011]

Hi the 4000,00 data thread charge was told by cisas apparantly that you used the data.

 

Orange seem to say one thing when it suits them and another depending on mood it seems, got to get them for it soon.

[watchinginvestigation2011]

T mobile should should take over them not the other way around customer care wise. Orange area at the mo rolling out their training to t mobile staff, sick bucket please

 

No leave t mobile alone, their staff still seem human at the mo, although the same company up top