Unreasonable (EX) Tennant

[Don-e]

Hi,

 

Over the past year I've been experiencing some problems with (seemingly) both my letting agent (employed on a fully managed basis) and my (possibly) unreasonable tennant of 6 months (November2005 - April2006).

 

Anway, the problem surrounds a boiler and my tennats view that it was unsafe during his tennancy.

 

It started like this:

 

the firday before he moved into my house I arranged for a well established and large company of plumbers to send a corgi registered technician round to surveymy boiler and issue a Gas Safety certificate. He passed the boiler- deeming it safe.

 

The tennants moved in on the Monday (A couple and an 11 month old baby). On the Tuesday another guy visited the house to check all the electrical appliances and passed those accordingly. However, he dedected a small trace of carbon monoxide eminating from the boiler and high lighted this to the tennant, who promptly relayed his concerns to the Agent, who in turn contacted me. I of course arranged for the orignal plumber to come round and fix the problem. He arrived 2 hours after the Gas Elec (Gas and Electrical guy) had left the premises.

 

the plumber stated that the amount of carbon monoxied detectedwas well within the legal level but would replace the seal that was the cause of the slight leak.

 

However, the tennant had sissueswith this and demanded a new boiler, saying that he thought he was living in a dangerous house and that the lives of his family were at risk. I had to decline his demand for a new boiler (after taking advice from the agent...I'm not sure if that wasa good thing or not?). Anyway, the next day thegas Elec guy comes round and passes the boiler - he is Corgi registered and issued yet another certificate.

 

7 days later after still not convinced of the boiler's safety he breaks rank and calls transco, who after learning of his doubts condemn the boiler and recommend that he gets his Landlord to buy a new one. The comments on the report issued by Transco syate that the boiler was shut down because of a "possible gas leak". Which puzzles me, gas leaks in the other cases appear to be easyily detectable and measurable. Either there was a leak or there wasnt? why didnt they say?

 

 

so, the boiler is shut down and my tennat is without heating of hot water...he notifies the agent hwo notifies me that they would be charging me £400 for electrical heating appliances. I strongly disagree with this and point out that the tennant broke his terms and conditions by getting Transco involved.

 

Two days later i arrange for another compnay of corgi registered plumbers to visit the house and survey the boiler, i also arrange for Corgi to come out with the first plumber to check his work - just to cover myself. The plumber visits, decided that the boiler is in fine working condition but changes some tape and a fuse for good measure and leaves (issues another cert). Tennant is still no satisfied at this point and starts doesnt make his rental obligations for the month and complains this his girlfriend has started to get "headaches".)

 

3 days later corgi arrive with the original plumber and passes the work.

 

All these vists were at my cost.

 

 

The tennant is still asking for a new boiler.

 

 

Months pass and there is another is a problems with a leak in the downstairs bathroom, it floods the floor and oakds the carpet. I again swift action and involve Thames Water who fix the problem as promplty as reasonably possible.

 

The tennat complians about this. I put tiles down instead of the carpet so that ifit happned again the carpet wouldnt spoil and cause hazard.

 

So, the Tennant blaims (at this point) Hamptons International (a fair view as they are a pretty poor managing agent, after I had to arrange most of the work myself as their costs were daylight robbery).

 

He applies to ARLA who reject his claims.

 

Tennant then starts legal action and starts county court action against Hamptons. he also summons my partner who had to take time off work and travel 125 miles to attend this acase as she lives part time in London.

 

During this time Hamptons offer a commercial settlement of £1000 to stop the proceedings, highlighting to the tennat that his case would be struck out. He declined and proceeded.

 

At court, indeed, he was struck out in the first 10 minutes. and was forced to pay Hamptons legal costs and the costs of all the were summoned (apart from my partner and myself). I realised at court thathe wanted £5,000 in compensation for the risk posed on his family's life.

 

 

after court he comes over to me and suggests that we could work something out as he had to make someone pay for his problems and that the court suggested that i was entirely liable for his problems as the contract was between him and myself.

 

I tried talking to him reasonably, and he gave me all the correspondence from his other his disputes with Hamptons.

 

He has hinted that I would be criminally charged if it went to court and that he ahs sought legal action and now wants me to pay him compensation.

 

(he has halso suggested that the £1000 he was offered by Hamptions was no where near enough for the trouble he experienced).

 

I think he still wants 5k.

 

 

I waived my right to the Deposit(without prejudice) as this was also in dispute (he wouldnt allow the TDRSA to deal with the matter and tried taking it through court with Hamptons. Obviously, it was nothing to do with them ..and the matter wasnt addressed). He left the house in a mess, dirty carpets, couches, loads of rotting bin bags and handnt kept the garden tidy at all. I closed the dispute in a good will gesture to hime, it was worth approx £250.

 

 

I took advice from a solicitor over the phone on a freebie. he said that the tenant has no grounds for a case as I used Corgi people and the legal and acted responsibly - representation wasnt required. He said write a letter telling him that you wouldntbe making an offer and that i wasnt going to consider any other matter relating to his occupancy.

 

i did this, but the fear I have is that he will see this through, and take it to court. I worry that he will use his daughter as a prop in this and that I will ultimatly be made entirely responsbile for his difficulties during his tennacy.

 

 

Has anyone got any advice? for me. What should my next step be. I beleive he will get nasty and take this forward?

 

How liable am I ?

 

With regard to his damge claims - are they reasoanble, or excessive?

 

Sorry for the length of the post (moderators, feel free to delete if this breaks any of the firum rules).

 

 

Cheers,

 

James

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

James,in reply to your post and in my opinion:

 

1.I agree with your solicitor that your ex tenant from hell has no case against you because you had a valid Corgi Landlord Certificate issued.

 

2.A tenant cannot demand replacement of a boiler.However,the landlord has an obligation and duty to ensure that the boiler has passed all the safety checks etc.

That is reason for having the legal obligation on the landlord to make sure that the Corgi Certificate is issued at th beginning of every tenancy and yearly.

 

3.In order to be prosecuted you would have to had not bothered to get the Corgi certificate on your property(properties) issued.As long as you have all your certificate paperwork in place I would tell your ex tenant to take hike.

 

4.Having read through your post several times,I feel that your ex tenant's actions borderline on blackmail because he had his case struck out and is trying to threaten you regarding the criminal angle regarding the boiler so that you pay him rather than him having actually suffered.

 

5.As you waivered your right to the deposit I feel that you have more than compensated your ex tenant and his girlfriend for any discomfort - this was a very good move by yourself.

 

IN SUMMARY...

 

I would either draft a letter directly and send it to the tenant or get a solicitor to do it.

 

In this case,I feel that you have been a too nice guy with this ex tenant you need to show him a dose of his own medicine by telling him that you are currently seeking legal advice with the view of him being prosecuted for blackmail and demanding money with menaces which if prosecuted could carry a prison sentence because(maybe you should see a solicitor about this - and his/her opinion and there is no harm in going to the police and asking their views as well):

 

1.The boiler was safe(You must not tell him that all your paperwork is in place - i.e. you have always carried out your duties towards your tenants).

2.He has acted totally unreasonably and you have always acted promptly when you have known that there was a problem with your property.

3.You waivered your right to the deposit and this is adequate compensation.

4.The case was struck out of court so he has no case against you.

5.If he still owes you any rent tell him that you will shortly issuing a claim against him.This is because he had breached the terms of his tenancy agreement with you plus charge him a reasonable amount for rubbish removal and add this to your claim - you should have a receipt for the latter.

 

James,my friend I hope you find this information useful.

 

If you need any more help,just ask.

 

Keep us posted.

 

All the best!

[Don-e]

Thanks for the reply Nightsmares4banks.

 

Very quick indeed.

 

It's a comfort to read this, especially after having to go over this problem of mine time and time again, after a while you start beleiving that you were in the wrong.

 

 

The guy made myself and my ex-partners life a complete hell all through out his tennancy and the Agent provved to be no support whatsoever. He blames me for using Hamptons and not getting them to do their job, but i did all I could at all times.

 

I'll just have to see how it goes, but in all honesty he is likley to push it to court (again).

 

If he does threaten court again, would it be worth getting statements from all the plumbers involved and sending it to him?

 

Or just wait it out, and see him in court?

 

Cheers for the support, the advice is both valued and appreciated!

 

 

James

[Nightmare4banks]

James,please do not worry.

 

In my view:

 

1.You need here to take charge of the situation and do not send him anything.

 

2.The only thing you should do is "sit and wait" in the hope that he will give up because he has already proven to be a pillock by going to court in the first place.

Personally,I feel that because he lost at court,he is desperate to cling on to anything to get him money out of you in one way or the other.

 

3.At the same time,find out your legal position regarding the demands for money on a totally unjustified basis as per what I told you in the previous post.Go to the police station and explain briefly the situation and/or a solicitor.

 

4.Regarding,the legalities and the agent - if your agent for example harassed your tenant,your tenant could sue you for the harassment because theagent is acting on your behalf.However,if the agent say got angry and hit a tenant the agent would be liable for the wounding etc.However,regarding the repairs etc they are always the duty of the agent to either carry them out and bill the landlord accordingly or if they are over a certain quote i.e. say £300+ to get the landlord's go ahead.Also this would depend on the urgency of the repairs.

 

5.Personally,if I were in your position and if this ex tenant of yours tries to sue you again just counter sue him for stress and outline what you had done through the life of his tenancy in order to make things right including the deposit issue.Make sure though that the amount you countersue him for does not exceed his claim amount.The objective here is not get money off this prat but to make him look more daft as per the previous case and get him off your case for good.

 

If it does get to this stage and you need any help with presenting your facts,please do not hestitate to let me know and I will do all my best to help you out.

 

Anyway,I hope you find this information useful.

 

If you need any more help,just ask.

 

Keep us posted.

 

All the best!

[celtic warrior]

Hi James. I have read your statement with interest as I myself am a letting agent. My thoughts are as follows:

• Your ex tenant is without any doubt whatsoever being really unreasonable.
  
• Clearly he appears to be a semi-pro litigant
  
• He is using a form of blackmail against you after having rightly lost the idiotic court proceedings that he bought against you.
  
• You appear to have done everything possible to ensure that you used qualified engineers to service and inspect the boiler.
  
• You seemed to consider H&S risks involved
  
• You clearly have been taken for a ride by this person who seems to think that he can go around pumping his gums and flexing his muscles
  
• At the end of the day, you would not have received several safety certs if the boiler did not pass the tests.

My advice really is that as a landlord you should just put this down to a very very bad experience and when using agents (We're not all bad!) try to find out first just how strict their vetting of prospective tenants is. As for the threat of further legal action, just sit tight and dont worry unduly. Just collate any evidence you can without going out of your way in case you need to defend any action. You are more that welcome to tel us at Preseli Lettings (W.Wales) for any advice you may wish. [tel no deleted for your safety and privacy, we have 70 000 reg users, and we haven't vetted them all personally! ;-)]

[Don-e]

Cheers Fellas,

 

Thanks for the advice, still waiting on his response, which I know will be a yet more threats.

 

just to clear things up a little, he tried taking the letting agent to court, and this was struck out on the basis that the teannt has now contract with the agent, only with the landord. The judge shot him down in the first 10 minutes, then spent the other 10 trying to get Hamptons legal costs down (he filed a claim exceeding 5k). Hamptons were awarded around £1200 in costs.

 

I'll let you know ho this prgoresses as this guy is pretty prompt, and seems to have stack of time on his hands (i'm not sure he works).

 

Cheers for th advice, again, it's good to have some people in the know taking my side.

 

Cheers,

 

James

[Nightmare4banks]

Good luck James,mate!

 

We are on your side completely!

 

If you have any more questions,just ask!

 

Keep us posted.

 

All the best!

[Don-e]

Hi,

 

No news yet but i found this small bit of guidance with regard to Tennants taking their Landlords through legal proceedings. It might be useful for both Landlords and Tennants alike.

 

I found it helpful.

 

HASKC - Housing Advice Service Kensington & Chelsea

 

 

I'll keep you all posted of any advances in my case.

 

Cheers

 

James

[Don-e]

******UPDATE******

 

So, I sent a letter last week, pointing out to my ex-tennant that I used fully corge qualified engineers and that I would NOT be making any sort of compensation gesture.

 

Here's what i got back...sorry, this guy waffles on more than i do.

 

(Question to the panel...is there any gravitas to this letter?) Please remember that after the Gas-elec guy came round, Edward Bays (Corgi registered plumber) Came round witihn 2 hours to repair the boiler (although he still ,maintanes that the gas co,ing for the boiler was wll within the tolerated level and he repaired the boiler to keep the guy quiet)

 

 

Dear Don-e and his ex girlfriend

 

Thank you for your letter dated 14th September 2006.

 

As tenants, we have a right to expect safety whilst living in a rented property.

If there is a problem detected with a gas appliance in that property, then as a landlord you have a duty to keep a record of the date of all the gas appliance safety checks together with a record of any problems that the safety check highlighted, and a record of any work that was done to rectify these problems.

 

As you are aware, a Mr Mike Dunckling of Gas-Elec disputed the Gas Safety record issued by edward Bays, and not myself of [name removed at that person's request]

although we appreciate your offer, we will not therefore require any explanation as to edward Bays company operational methods of their legal practice. I suggest that as this is an issue concerning only yourselves, Gas Elec, Edward Bays, and Hamptons International, any dispute and proffesional opinions of the contractors working on your behalf should be resolved between those parties concerned. these issues do not involve us as your tenants as we are not qualified to dispute the proffesionalism of any contractor who is certified to have worked on the gas boiler at your property on your behalf.

 

You are aware that it was your agent Hampton International, and not myself or [name removed at that person's request] who instructed edward Bays Ltd and Gas-elec to carry out works on your behalf at your property. Again, any issues from the instruction of these contractors are to be raised with your agent, Hamptons International.

 

The faulty boiler was shut down on the 24th October, 2005 and this problem was not documented as being repaired until 24 days later on the 17th November 2005. it was during this period when [name removed at that person's request] complained of having headaches that led to the emergency call being made to Transco.

This call was simply made due to Hamptons failure to respond to our numerous requests to have the safety inspection carried out that had been originally requested by Mr Dunkling of Gas-Elec.

 

For your information, the Corgi Gas Safety Website reads as follws:

 

"Do not use and gas appliance or fittings you know or suspect to be unsafe. through Corgi, the health and safety Executive has asked all registered installers to disconnect and gas appliance or fittings that are so dangerous as to be a threat to life if they are used"

 

I wish to reiterate that myself or miss Hansford did not shut the boiler down in your property. The boilers was shut down on two seperate occasions by two serperate certified and proffesional individuals who were qualified to know whether the or not a boiler was safe or unsafe to use.

 

In case you are not aware, at the request of Miss Hamptons Rep.The representative who visited the property nthe 15th November 2005 spoke with Miss Hamptons Rep over the phone whilst he was at the house carrying out the emergency inspection.

Having explained to Teri that he shut the boiler down because of concern of its safety, Miss agency Rep asked him if he would stay and repiar it. His reply was that he was unable to for legal reasons and so she would have to arrange a Corgi registered plumber to fix it instead. it was based on this information that Miss Agency Rep phones Grange Plumbing who repaired it two days later and subsequently issued the second Gas Safety Certificate.

As you are aware, the warning notice issued by Transco states that the casing of the appliance was bent. This was the exact same reason that Mr Dunkling shut the appliance down on the 24th of October 2005 as it was not sealing properly agianst the back plate.

 

With regard to your persistence to state that we had breached the contract, please note that the clause you refer to excludes cases of emergencies.

 

If you do require further clarity on this particular issuem may I suggest you visit www.house.co.uk and then click the "emergency" link.

 

Transco gas Emergencies

0800 111 999

If you smell gas, think you have a gas leak, or are worried that fumes contianing carbon monoxide are escaping from a gas applaince, please call the free Transco emergency line immediatly.

 

For avoidance of doubtm it was this emergency number that was dialled on the 15th November 2005.

 

Because of the very real danger that we were exposed to whilst renting your house through Hamptons International, we invite you to propose an offer of compensation within the next 7 days.

 

If you do not wish to propose such an offer, then we feel that we have no option than to issue with a claim for damages.

 

Yours sincerely.

 

 

 

 

Mr and and Misses Problem Tenants.

 

 

 

Anyone got any questions, feel free to shoot - I'll try and give you some clarity.

 

I shouldnt be worried but some how I do.

 

Looking at that HASKC link above, am i right in thinking that any damages will be calculated using a mulitple of the rent he paid.

 

And to make it clear, I was NEVER contacted either directly through my agent by any of the following:

Enviromental Health

ARSA

the Police.

 

If it was so desperate and deadly surely he would have moved his kid out ASAP and contacted one of those agencies?

 

your help and advice yet again is apprecaited.

 

 

cheers,

 

James

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

James,in reply to your post:

 

I will repeat what I stated in a previous post(s) within this thread:

 

1.This guy is very bitter and wants to attempt to milk the situation especially after

losing the case against the letting agent.

 

2.Do not reply to him and for God's sake get some advice regarding the blackmail issue either from a solicitor and/or the police!!

 

3.As you hired a registered corgi fitter to carry out any maintenance on the boiler,you did the best you could because you sought to remedy the situation which of course is your duty as a landlord.Furthermore you are not a qualified gas fitter etc and thus you relied on the professionalism and expertise of the corgi fitter.

 

Now James my friend,like you said if we have any questions - which I do now plus some points that need clarification and to grasp a cleare picture:

 

1.Could you please tell me the sequence of events which you were aware of at the time between October 24,2005 & November 17,2005.

 

2.As far as you were aware, were the tenants without hot water and/or heating during the above mentioned dates?

 

3.Were you notified of the situation either prior to/during the above mentioned

dates either by your agent and or/your tenants?

 

4.The tenant states that the agent so called could not be bothered.Is there any written evidence of such from the tenant to the agent around the dates specified?Please give me me more details.

 

5.How much was your tenants' weekly/monthly rent?

 

The answers to the above questions should hopefully help me to assist you further.

 

You can also PM me if you wish,so I can do my best to assist you to kick this guy's a** for good!

[Don-e]

Cheers again,

 

Okay so as far as I can understand (I'm waiting for a reponse from Hamptons - although, My ex- tenant supplied me with all his email correspondence which gives seems to back this my impression up)

 

Sorry, I know you need hard facts, but until i get a clear response I'll give this provisional breakdown.

 

October 18th - Ed bays Techinican surveys boilers and its enviroment, passes boiler, and issues gas safety cert.

 

Tenants move in

 

October 24th - Gas Elec visit property to check appliances, checks the kitchen and waves his gas meter around the boiler and detects a small amount of gas - checks boiler.

 

Issues a report ( Scubbs out the Immediately Dangerous Section - enters no details) highlights a risk - stating " Casing not sealin against distorted back plate).

 

Informs Hamptons - who imform us - asking us to authorise a plbumber to attent the property. Authorisation granted.

 

Boiler as been turned off and a stiocerha been put on the appliance.

 

Plumber from Ed Bays visits property, stands by his initial issue of gas safety cert. but says that he will replace the seal, and do some minor soldering (boiler turned off during work).

 

 

Now, I think the situation has been resovled, we authorise for the plumber charge to be taken from my float.

 

 

25th October - Gas-Elec return to property - say the work is fine, but as it's not in his remit, he wont grant the boiler as safe (he didnt want to be legally repsonsible for it)

 

 

Between the 25th and the 15th November - lots of emails going to Hamptons - telling them that they werent happy with the fact that the same plumber who issued thecert fixed the problem...his girlfriend was getting headaches at this point.

 

 

Tenants still using boiler, water, heating etc

 

15th november - Transco called via emergency gas leak number. attend property. Shut boiler down (Standerd pracitce is someone suspects gas leak)

 

Report reads like this:

 

Nature of Problem: Other (could have ticked Escape, Flue, Ventilation)

 

Category: Concern for safety (could have had Immediat Danger or At Risk)

 

Additonal information: Poss faulty Gas Seal, 1 corgi Plumber thinks it's okay 2 think it's not: Top of case is bent

 

(Not sure who the 2 are? Gas elec is one, Transco possible make it two. But Gas Elec said the work was fine - Writing to Gas Elec for a full statement)

 

Boiler tunred off.

 

Hamptons infomed us,we had to pay for £400 worth of electric heaters for the tenants.

 

17th November I authorise another plumber to visit the property (I was lucky to get Grange plumbing in at short notice).

 

Plumber checks the appliance, ticks all the good boxes and gives it a good pass.

 

States some faults Sorry the hand writing is poor):

 

a couple of NCS on flue, too close to window and cavet

 

Boiler casing slightly impared

 

No On/Off tape on MCV

 

Retification work carried out:

 

PRS10 Tape replaced on seal

 

 

Boiler is turned on again

 

 

Corgi visit property on the 21st November (17th was a thursday, 21st was a Monday) Hampons arranged for this visit. Ed Bayspresent at inspection

 

Corgi Complaint Visit report highlights no faults - but change a 13A fuse with 3 A on site.

 

Comments:

 

Case seal has since been replaced Appears to be fully intact and complete.

 

During this time, Tennat was with holding rent.

 

 

Mmmh, I'll admit that the service we got from Hamptons wasnt great, this includes sedning correspondance to the Tenant that was intended to go to me. Blatantyl ripping myself and my partenr off on work they did, and the explantaions given, and even the attitude was pretty defence. But, looking over the mails I have seen from the two parties, they seem to be in the right.

 

The mails go like this:

Tenant:

I am not hapy that you got the same plumber round to fix the seal, after he issued the first gas safety cert

 

Agent:

 

The problem was highlights and fixed in good time, the boiler is now safe and the gas cert remain in place.

 

Stuff liek that, andrepaeat is 20 times, and involve CEO,managers and other departments.

 

My Tenant embarked on the legal route around February, he had moved out by the time he appeared in court with Hamptons.

 

 

Okay, house is a grade II listed terrace house, it was let fully furnished (and then some) as myslef and my parter were breaking up at the time and could decide what to do with the funriture. So he got beds, sofa's, tables, phones, TV's, all kitchen apliances etc etc.

 

Let in a nice part of town for £680 a month

 

To be clear - the teantwas not using the boiler between the 15th and 17 of November.

 

 

 

Is this any clearer? Like I said, I'm contacting the contractors involved and asking them of their views,although, my tenant beleives that it's not his concern -it;s my responsibility.

 

I would point out that during his emails to Hamptons he points out a number of times that he didnt hold us repsonsible. This changed after he struck out at court.

 

 

 

Cheers again!

 

James

[Don-e]

So, it seems my ex-tenant has decided to see this one through. Friday, myself and my ex-partner recieved Claims via Reading County Court.

 

He is claiming not more than £5000 for the "inconvience" of not having a safe boiler, "negligence" on the part of my ex-partner and myself" and "Damages" by way of his wifes illness brought on by the "unsafe" boiler.

 

He has also thrown in a problem we had with an oustide pipe that flooded the downstairs bathroom floor. Like the other problems, this quickly remedied - Wehre there was carpet laid before, we paid extra to have tiles, in the unlikely event that the problem repeated.

 

He also makes a reference to us allowing the Agent to "Extort" money from them. I think this is a reference to the Agent charging him for electric heating fans.

 

These heating fans had intially been charged to us...but, as we had already paid to correct the boiler after the electric and appliance safety inspector had raised doubts over the boiler - we beleived that the loss of heating in the house was casued my the tenant calling in Transco (breachin his contract) - he had decided to have the boiler shut down.

 

Just to recap.

 

The boiler cert was issued by a Corgi plumber

 

An appliance safety techinicain later visited the house and raised doubts on the safety on the boiler (he detected a small Carbon Monoxide in the air...although legally within tollerance, he asked that a plumber investigate the back=plate). Sticker placed on boiler...boiler shut down

 

Original plumber called attened property - he replaced a seal - did some soldering work..turned the boiler back on.

 

 

Gas Elec guy visits property to check the boiler and pass the house as safe. Says that the boiler looked okay, and didnt want to commit to saying it was 100% - but DOES NOT CONDEMN the Boiler...and leaves it on.

 

 

Tenenat doesnt like the fact the the first Corgi plumber did the repair work and asks that the boiler be replaced. Agent declines this request.

 

2 days later, Tenant calls Transco, Transco dont even look at the boiler, they just listen to the Tenants story...and shut the boiler down. Suggesting that the boiler be replaced (convinient as they happen to be the UK's largest supplier of Gas Boilers).

 

Now the Tenant doesnt have hot water of gas (this is November). Electric Heaters supplied - initally out our cost.

 

We then arrange for yet another, different Corgi plumber to visit the house and inspect the boiler. (it was very hard trying to get 1 plumber at short notice, let alone, 2 - as we all know, plumbers dont do charity work and myself and my ex-partner were charged premium rates for these visitaions and works).

 

This plumber doesnt notice anything serious, applies some extra tape and replaces a fuse. issues a gas cert.

 

Tenant still unhappy. So, Corgi is called to survey the gas boiler with the first plumber to inspect the work done on back-plate.

 

Corgi suggest another fuse is replaced...passes the boiler and the work done by both technicians.

 

 

Looking back over the bills - it may have been cheaper to buy a combi boiler.

 

 

So, where do I go now...I am not going to part with any money unless I really have to. Remember, Iby my ex-partner and myselfhad to go to court and tae a days holiday, pay for travel, sit there and watch this guy waste everybody's time and get struck out of court within 15 minutes.

 

We let him off our right to expenses. (which could have amounted to a fair mount as we are both accounts and investment proffesionals - who had to travel some way to here his faulted claim in a court miles away form where we both live and work).

 

We also (as a good will gesture) let him off the portion of desposit the inventory suggested we hold back for the state of the house (around £235 - filthy carpets, cups, holes in walls, 8 rubbish bags fuill of rotten food in the garden). He did not allow the TDRSA to make a judgement on this matter as per his contract!

 

 

 

Where do we go from here? I've spoken to 2 legal pro's who say the case isnt worth worrying about?

 

 

This matter has been really destresssing and embarressing, as I have had to use time the conflicts with my working life to try and settle this thing fairly without him taking me to court. Its caused a lot of hurt, mainyl because of the personal nature that house represented.

 

 

So, is there any way I can scare the guy off (legally)? Is a CPR18 applicable - ie, ask him to state what laws I have borken and to highlight any contractual breech that may have occured?

 

Any chance of applying to have the claim struck out under Rule 3.4:3? PRACTICE DIRECTION – STRIKING OUT A STATEMENT OF CASE - This Practice Direction supplements CPR Rule 3.4

 

 

I will write up the full claim later tonight, along with the attached letter stating his grounds.

 

 

He isnt using a solicitor.

 

I heard through the grape vine that The Agent is having to take him to court for the £950 (less the Deposit I released to him - that the Agent are now holding as part payment) as he hasnt paid since the court ruling back in June. Just a rumour.

 

 

 

Any adivce/tips?

 

 

Thanks for reading.

 

James

[Don-e]

 

 

Morning all,

 

 

Here's the detail;s of the claim, i've put some points on there...just some thoughts I have....if ANYONE has any guidance I'm really keen to read it.

 

 

 

Brief Details of Claim

The claimants claim compensation for breach of contract.

The claimants claim compensation for the injury, stress and inconvenience caused by the defendants' disrepair of faulty gas boiler, and for the danger that they were exposed to that was caused by this disrepair.

The claimants claim compensation for the stress inconvenienced caused by the defendants's disrepair of a water mains tap and an unnecessary flood that this disrepair then led to.

The claimant also claims compensation for the stress and inconvenience caused by the defendants property-managing agents attempt to extort money from the claimants.

The claimants claim compensation for the rent that was paid whilst the property was deemed as uninhabitable

 

 

 

The claimants claim compensation for breach of contract.

WHICH PART OF THE AGREEMENT? CLAIMANT SHOULD HIGHLIGHT TO THE COURT AND DEFENDANT WHERE IN LAW, OR CONTRACT THAT A CONTRAVENTION OR CRIMINAL ACT OCCURRED.

The claimants claim compensation for the injury, stress and inconvenience caused by the defendants' disrepair of faulty gas boiler, and for the danger that they were exposed to that was caused by this disrepair.

WHAT INJURY? DISREPAIR? THE BOILER WAS LOOKED AT 3 DIFFERENT GAS PROFESSIONALS - PAID BY LANDLORD. NO MEDICAL EVIDENCE WAS EVER PRESENTED BY CLAIMANT. NEITHER EVIROMENTAL HEALTH OR COINTACTED DEFENDANT.

The claimants claim compensation for the stress inconvenienced caused by the defendant's disrepair of a water mains tap and an unnecessary flood that this disrepair then led to.

CLAIMANT STATED TO ME IN COURT THAT HE SUSPECTED THERE WAS A LEAK IN THE BACK GARDEN _ HE THOUGHT IT WAS AN UNDERGROUND STREAM/RIVER - HE FAILED TO ACT IN A TENANT-LIKE MANNER, WHICH ALLOWED THE PIPE WORK TO FURTHER DETERIORATE. THE TENNANT SHOULD HAVE HIGHLIGHTED HIS SUSPISIONS BEFORE THE WATER WAS ALLOWED TO RUIN THE FLOOR AND INCUR ADDITIONAL COST TO THE LANDLORD

The claimant also claims compensation for the stress and inconvenience caused by the defendants property-managing agents attempt to extort money from the claimants.

NO EXTORTION EVER TOOK PLACE. EXTORTION IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE AND NO POLICE INVESTIGATION WAS EVER INITIATIVE. MANAGING AGENT SUPPLIED ELECTRIC HEATERS TO TENANT AT A COST THAT WAS PASSED ON TO CLAIMANT - AS PER CONTRACT

The claimants claim compensation for the rent that was paid whilst the property was deemed as uninhabitable.

ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH WERE NEVER CONTACTED. THE PROPERTY WAS AND NEVER HAS BEEN DEEMED UNINHABITABLE BY ANY OFFICIAL AUTHORITY. CLAIMANT NEVER VACATED THE PROPERTY DURING THE PERIOD OF THE ALLEGED PROBLEMS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the Reading County Court

 

The Claimants rented a property from the defendant for a period of six months commencing on the 21st October 2005. The property had been advertised as "to let" by the defendants letting agent Hamptons International who are located in Marlborough Wiltshire. The property was fully managed throughout the entire tenancy of the property from the Oxford branchof the defendant's agent, Hampton International.

On the 4th of October 2005, a Corgi registered contractor working on behalf of the defendant inspected the gas boiler in the kitchen of the aforementioned property and shut it down for a fear that it was leaking carbon monoxide. On the 25th October 2005, another contractorworking on behlaf of the defendant's agent inspected the appliance and passed it as being safe to use.

Due to a conflict of proffesional opinion, the first contractor who intially shut the boiler down re-visited the property and informed the defendant's agent that an inspection from Corgi would be required. Despite numerous requests by the claimant to the defendants agent to be given the date of inspection, it ddid not take place until the 21st November 2005.

Whilst waiting for the inspection by Corgi, symptons of carbon monoxide poisoning in the form of headaches were experienced by the claimant, and because at the time the defendant's agents had still not provided the claimants with a date of the Corgi inspection, an emergency telephone call was made by the claimant to Transco.

Having made an emergency inspection of the appliance, Transco shut the boiler down for the second time on the 15th November 2005 for the fear of it again leaking carbon monoxide.

Despite a number of requests to the defendants managing agent to have the boiler repair in accordance with the current gas safety regulations, this repair was not carried out until the 17th November 2005. two days after Transco had issued the second warning notice and almost four weeks after the boiler was first shut down.

Despite freezing temperatures, the central heating and hot water systems could notbe used at times, as they had been deemed by two seperate Corgi registered proffesionals as being unsafe.

Because the boiler as not deemed safe to use, the claimants were therfore left in a house last November without heating or hot water. On certain nights wehre the temperaturedropped below freezing, Hamptons knew that the claimants had a one-year-old baby daughter living in the property, but despite this offered to do nothing.

Because the claimants one year old baby was living in the property, the claimants insisted to Hamptons International that they would need some form of alternative heating to be provided so as to try to keep warm. Having been left for a number of nights by Hamptons International without any heating whatsoever, fan heaters were eventually provided but after having collected these heaters from the property once the boiler had eventually been repaired, Hamptons then made numerous demands for the sum of £ 235.00 in order for the claimants to pay for using them.

Despite the fact that the contract that was signed at the beginning of the tenacy stated that a tenant was able to instruct a contractor in an emergency, havingmade the emergency telephone call to Transco, Hamptons claimed the claimants had breached theircontract. By doing so, the claimant was told by the defendant that that was the reason why they wanted to pay for the fan heaters.

 

In addition to the above problem, the defendant's negligance also caused the bathroom floor in the property to flood due to the disrepair of a burst mains water pipe in the back garden. The claimants therefore also had to live with unsafe and unhygienic flooring for the same period of one month.

Since the incidents occurred, the defendant's agent has continuously provided false information about the veriosn of events, and has attempted to extort money from the claimant in order to recvoer funds for charges that were incurred solety because of the defendant's negligance.

 

 

 

 

James

[celtic warrior]

Hi James

Having read through the various information once again I find it incredable that your ex tenants are prepared to go through with the trhreat of legal action. I really do not believe that they have a hope in hell of making this stick in court. The way the petition is presented by the "defendant" contains several areas of blame which really are open to question because he clearly has a beef with Hamptons in addition to yourself. The guy is in my humble opinion a semi-pro litigant who clearly wants to blame everyone bar himself for anything that may be wrong. I stick to my original impression that you as his landlord did all that you could have done given the circumstances and respected the laws which govern tenancy agreements. It appears that you were landed with the tenant from hell and I would be interested to know if he had any previous landlords who may shed a little light as to the type of character he was when he was a tenant of theirs. Did Hamptons obtain any references from previous landlords, employers, character etc? It may well be worth you checking this out as any new "evidence" may assist you when you get to court. As far as his claims for damages etc are concerned he will have to have concrete evidence to substain this in court ortherwise he will be blown out and rightly so. May I sugest that you try to make your "defence" as watertight as possible by collecting all relevent copis of doc's, letters, invoices, agreements, etc etc so that you make a very credable defence before the judge. If you remain cool, calm, collected and act in a responsible manner then this will remain in your favour. In the meantime just respond as you are required to do to the court docs which you have received and contest anything you feel appropriate. It will then be his move again and he will really have to think hard whether or not to proceed with this folly. Keep us posted and good luck to you

[MrShed]

Missed this one somehow. This can be summed up in two very brief sentences:

 

- The tenant is an idiot. You have clearly shown due diligence in ensuring the property, and in particular the gas supply, is in safe working order. You will never in a million years lose in court.

 

- The agent is also an idiot. He is quite clearly inept, and if you are fully managed there is no way you should be as "hands on" involvedas you are.

 

Personally, I would be very tempted to countersue the tenant for harrassment, as well as possibly suing the agent for negligence and breach of contract.

 

I strongly sympathise with you, this is a poor situation to be in, and the tenant really has caused you undue stress. It is tenants like this that give all the others a bad name.

[Don-e]

Cheers for the support fellas.

 

after doing some reading and seeking some further advice I think I can get to grips with some kind of strategy here.

 

Apperently the personal injury aspect of the case should be quite easy to strike out/set aside in someway as I have not seen any medical evideance to support the claims (either in court the first time or by way of correspeondance with the tenant). Its has been suggested that even her GP would not be a an appropriate witness it it wouldnt been seen as lay? To be completely inrefutable they would have to supply toxicology reports from the time she had the alledged posioning and have an expert witness to testify to that extent.

 

Also, they would have to prove that the Carbon Monoxide would have come directly from the boiler and not another source ie cigarette smoking, car exhuast fumes, the neighbour's boiler or gas system.

 

I was never supplied with any quantifying evidence by any of the corgi technicians, or any analysis of the air quality taken at the property over the course of the visits. No fair test on the boiler (ie measure air quality while the boiler was on Vs measurment of the air quality after the boiler was switched off) ever seem to have been conducted by any of the techinicians.

 

I'm wirting to the plumbers involved...asking them for details of their visits, I'm asking the Letting agent for a diarised sequence of events, asking them to state quite clearly if I at anytime objected to or obstructed any work requested.

 

 

Is there anything else that might be of use?

 

 

What really annoys me is that this worry and upset and been running for over a year now and this guy to kick all this off with no real fear of getting burnt, he stands to win a lot if I screw up and is liable for very little if I prove a success in court.

 

It sounds like a childish comment to make but its not fair.

 

Cheers though fellas.... I really appreciate the support - I know what I have to do but with the legal system being as complicated and as intimerdating as it is a guy loses his confidence and situations seem to lose their clarity.

 

 

Cheers,

 

James

[Nightmare4banks]

James,having read through the case from these tenants,my comments are as follows:

 

1.BREACH OF CONTRACT???

 

This needs to be specific as breach of contract covers a wide range of issues within a tenancy agreement.

 

2.DISREPAIR

 

A faulty boiler is not defined as "disrepair".

 

Disrepair occurs when there is a fault with the property - building/structure - i.e.rising damp and rotten timbers are two very good examples.Also,which render the landlord liable for "breach of repair obligations".

However,a boiler that does not work properly is classed as a "faulty appliance".

 

3.INJURY,STRESS & INCONVEINCE

 

The onus is on the tenants to bring the backup evidence regarding injury.

 

The stress and inconveince has already been dealt with by yourself by refunding some of the money.

 

4.LEAK

 

The tenants should have notified you regarding this as soon as possible - "damage limitation".Anyway,you seem to have remedied the situation.

 

5.EXTORTION

 

Please clarify:

 

1.what exactly are "the tenants from hell" referring to here regarding Hamptons?Please clarify.

 

2.By the way who paid for the heaters yourself/hamptons or the tenants from hell?Please clarify.

 

6.PROPERTY BEING UNINHABITABLE?

 

I agree as long as your property was not condemned by the Council - this is a load of rubbish and really absurd.

 

In my view the only aspect of this claim that may be of any merits is:

 

When the tenants never had any hot water and/or heating ONLY.

 

They would be compensated depending on:

 

Length of time deprived of usage of these facilities at an amount that would be decided by the judge.

 

Probably a good benchmark would be a rent reduction on a pro rata basis.

I know for fact that disrepair cases are calculated in this fashion.

The maximum amount that would be classed reasonable in the worst case scenario would be

a totally rent free period to reflect the conditions that the tenant endured for that that period of time.

 

Anyway,I hope you find this information useful.

 

The answers to the questions that I have asked should hopefully enable me to assist you further.

[blacksheep1979]

If it ends up in court and they play the not hot water/heating card I'd make sure that you point out that the boiler was only turned off after they repeatedly contacted gas emergency services and this is their standard practice. This was after you had the boiler checked out thoroughly by CORGI reg'd proffesionals. In effect they turned off the boiler for no good reason.

[Nightmare4banks]

Blacksheep1979,I agree in part with your last post -

 

However,it is a criminal offence to deprive a tenant of services i.e.hot

and water,electricity supply and gas supply while he/she is lawfully occupying the premises.

 

This could also potentially trigger a compensation/damages claim which would depend on the the factors of each specific case but mainly the duration of time that the tenant has suffered any hardship and also if the landlord had done any act or failed to do an act that had the objective of him having financially gained.Here I am referring to the housing laws rather than the original poster's exact specifics of his problem tenants.

[blacksheep1979]

Hi n4b - I agree that compensation would be due if there was no hot water/heating etc. But if the boiler was proven to be safe before and after they had it shut down then hopefully this then won't lead to this.

[Nightmare4banks]

Blacksheep1979,just to add:

 

The main issue is that the landlord has the duty to provide tenants with the facilities to access services if and when needed by tenants.

 

TO GO FURTHER...

 

1.In the event of say the boiler not functioning there should be say an alterative means of hot water and heating.

 

For example,if the boiler runs on gas,there should be a basic electric shower in the bathroom that can be used in the event of the boiler not working.

 

2.Also,if the central heating does not work there should be portable electrical heater(s) provided at the expense of the landlord should the need arise for use.

 

3.If there is no gas on the premises as in some blocks of flats the landlord should again provide an additional heater(s) should the other heater(s) fail to work properly.

 

This would depend on how many people resided and how many rooms in the property.

 

4.Again I am not referring to James and his problem tenants here but the longer the time gap and boiler not working especially in colder months renders a landlord to possibly be questioned by a judge should the matter reach a court hearing thus if proven that "he could not careless" or had intentionally not had a remedy for the situation a tenant would be in a fairly good position to get more compensation.Of course,broadly speaking each case is classed on its merits.Judges loathe uncaring landlords and equally teenats that seem to go over the top in their persuit of compensation/damages from landlords if it is proven that there is no case against the landlord - The original poster's - (James) agent v the tenants from hell is an excellent example of this.

 

5.To put it very briefly by doing the above the landlord has covered his a**

the best way possible and carried out his duties in accordance to the implied obligations in the agreement between him and his tenants.

[Gingerheid]

Isn't it the case that Transco simply wouldn't be interested in whether the boiler worked or not, as it's not their responsibility?

 

Is it not the case that their worries are

 

a) The bit of from the street to the meter

b) Making sure that the house doesn't get blown up in a way that they could be called reckless with regards to?

 

My reading is that their actions with regards to the boiler mean nothing at all, merely that

 

a) They were called out so they came, because they have to.

b) Some said there might be a risk so they gave general advice about how to make sure the house did get blown up, because if they don't and it did they would like awfully silly.

c) It's not their business to look at peoples boilers so they don't.

 

I reckon that if you ask them, they will tell you that if you got their emergency people out and told them the boiler had been bugged by MI5 agents and was with spraying the room with boiled haggis, they would tell you to turn it off and not to use it until you got it checked out by a Corgi registered.... exactly as they did your tenants.

[Don-e]

Cheers fellas.

 

I've been a bit ill lately so havent read through all the posts.

 

I'm putting together my defence today and tomorrow. Any tips for doing this?

 

I'm still waiting back on plumbers and the letting agent so I havent anything definate by way of evidence backing my story up....but i'm guessing he's in the same position as he hasnt actually contacted any of the plumbers himself and the letting agent has already sent the timescal and diary events form the time of the problem. Also, I got to see his bundle at his first attempt at litigation.

 

 

Is it proper to stae in my defence that the tenant has already taken advantage of the goodwill gesture (the disputed deposit) and the travel. Also, while highlighting the deposit, should I highlight the Tenants reluctance to address the dispute through the agreed ( contractual) avenue of the TDRSA? He breached his contract by not allowing this board to review this matter. Stating that desoite the inventory he shouldnt have to pay for the house to be proffesionaly cleaned because it was all the workmen who made the carpet dirty. (he has always failed to address that much of the cleaning bill would have come from the food staines on the couch and the messleft in the back garden).

 

 

I only mention this because the goodwill gesture should carry weight, but he will challange this by stating that he shouldnt have to pay for cleaning up the damge i was "responsible" for.

 

Or should I not even tackle this point in so much Detail?

 

 

Also, is it wroth mentioning that I was never given any medical confirmation of the Tenant's "Carbon Monoxide" poisonining, his failing to produce evidene to that extent imparied my ability to settle.assess the matter in throrough detail which may have prevented intervention from court.

 

Cheers again for the support!

 

James

[Don-e]

So the ex-Tenant has proved unrelenting, and it seems he's going to see this thing through.

 

I submitted a defence just after x-mas and filled in all the usual allocation forms.

 

The court served us with the evidence notice about 3 weeks ago stating that our evidence had to be submited to the court by 04/03/2007,, on friday i received another note form the court with a revised date of 09/04/2007...which I was thankful for as the statements I ruequested from certain parties hasnt exactly been forthcoming ( My co-defendent and myself decided not to summons any witnesses, rather than to write to them politely and ask for their co-operation ...besides, we havent got 2 buttons to rub together at the moment and we cant be shelling out for Plumbers to attend court).

 

So, with the addition of extra time, is there any advice people can give me on evidence and mounting a defence in realtion to my case?

 

 

So far I've contacted:

 

All the plumbers involved - Asking them to state whether they took any air measurements, and asked them what their impression of the boiler was at the time they came to visit - in respects to the portable applaince tester who first raised concerns about the boiler, I asked them to state why they didnt condemn/turn off the boiler on their second visit.

 

The Agent, asking them for a sequesnce of events, bills, statements, if Enviromental Health had been in touch with them, to confrim that the Tenant refused flattly to settle the deposit ( for the cleaning of carpets and removal of bin bags for the back garden and the treatment of stains on the couch) dispute through the TDRSA ( as I was under no obligation to release this money to the Tenant as the house was dirty), the result.findings of the ARLA compalaint that the tenant made ( I know this wasnt followed up) and the agents general impression of the tenants behavior.

 

The Local Enviromental Health, asking them if there is any records of a complaint of concern raised about my property during the tennancy.

 

 

Corgi, asking them for a summary of the complaint they followed up concerning the first plumber.

 

 

I am concered that people arent going to want to get involved, this is a bit of a concern for me, but on the flip side, I'm guessing that their reluctance to get involved will alsoo extend to the Tenant who would also be relying on physical prrof that the boiler was unsafe.

 

Any advice is always apprecaited.

 

 

Cheers,

 

James

[celtic warrior]

Hi James

Sorry to hear that your ex tenant has decided to pursue this. It really is a crazy situation.

As far as these companies being slow to come forward with supporting evidence for you I might sugest that they would appear to have a duty to supply this information to the court as they are all directly involved in the case whether they like it or not. I am sure that they have all received renumeration for their services in connection with the case. Perhaps is they are still stalling you then you might wish to tell them that like it or not they are involved. This ex tenant seems more and more bloody unreasonable as time goes by. My agency have a problem looming large at the momment with some tenants who think they are bloody clever. The trouble is they waste so much of your time, effort and of course money.

I do wish you well James. I hope to God that you get the just result and perhaps finally you may be able to put it behind you. Regards