Leak from upstairs flat brought down ceiling

[axil23]

I own a a pair of terraced flats. So the upstairs is rented out on a 5 year lease and managed by another company who rent it out. Its been leaking from their bathroom since November last year. I have informed them via email 5 times since then and the problem was never fully rectified. They would just send their handyman who would apply some silicone to the bath and the leak would start again a few weeks later. 

Under the lease they are responsible for the repairs to the property. 

Yesterday morning the plasterboard ceiling in the bathroom below fell and caused damage to the ceiling light too. Now my tenant doesn't have a ceiling light or half the ceiling. To makes matter worse they still haven't sent anyone out to fix the leak so water is still falling from the bathroom above. 

They have advised me that I am not allowed to do any work upstairs and if I want to they will not compensate me for it. In regards to the damage done below they want me to go via my Insurance company and are refusing to pay for the repairs. 

Would this be a valid insurance claim as its not accidental rather negligence on their part for not doing the job correctly over months. Plus I will have to pay the excess and loose my no claims? 

What are my rights?

Edited May 24, 2023 by axil23

[BankFodder]

I'm not quite clear as to what you are saying.

I understand that the upstairs flat belongs to you as well as the one which has been affected by the leak?

[axil23]

Yeah.  Upstairs belongs to me but is rented out to a company for 5 years. They use it for their tenants. The lease states that they are responsible for all repairs to that flat. 
 

I am unable to get access to that flat. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by axil23

[BankFodder]

Don't you have keys to the flat?

[axil23]

Unfortunately I don't. Its a part of the agreement that I am not allowed access. They use the flat to house vulnerable tenants and I am only allowed access by giving them 24hrs notice and then too I am not allowed to do any work in the house due to health and safety reasons. Their own workmen have to do the job. 

[BankFodder]

The continuous leak amounts to a nuisance.

The tort of nuisance is the wrongful interference with the enjoyment of property.
Clearly, the continuous/recurring leak fits in with that definition.

It is entirely reasonable to expect you to take whatever steps are necessary in order to abate the nuisance in order to prevent further damage.

Is there nothing in the agreement which obliges them to maintain the property to a reasonable standard? Is there nothing in the agreement which allows you to enter in the event of some emergency?

[axil23]

Yeah there is. I can gain access to the property for emergencies. Yesterday I asked them to give me access as it was a persistent leak which they allowed but said they would not pay for any repairs. 

I gave them the property at a cheaper rent as it was a full repair lease which stated that besides the roof everything else they need to pay for. 

[BankFodder]

Okay, in that case it seems to me that the way forward is fairly obvious.
Gain access to the flat and get the work done. Get it done properly.
Get two independent quotations for the work and choose the cheapest. Three independent quotations will be better.

While you have access to the flat, I would suggest that you check it out generally as to its condition, smoke alarms, and eventually you want to know if it has an electricity certificate and also a gas safety certificate.
 

At the same time, get three independent quotations for the damage which has been caused by the persistent leak in which they have failed to address correctly.

You can put that work in hand as quickly as possible.

Do make sure that all of your quotations are all in writing and that you have everything properly receipted. No cash deals.

When everything has been made good and you are satisfied with the quality of the repair upstairs then come here and we will help you claim from them for all of your expenses reasonably incurred plus interest.

 

 

Don't discuss the question of cost of the repairs with them. Just go in and get the work done

 They can assume that you are going to pay that bill. But once it is all finished, then claim against them and sue them in short order if they cause any problems.
 

Your chances of success are much better than 90%

 

[BankFodder]

And incidentally, if it comes down to a question of claiming against the insurance, it is for them to claim against their own insurance.

Are they insured? They certainly should be. I believe it is a legal requirement for the property to be insured

[axil23]

Ok thanks. I assume this would be through the small claims court? If they lawyer up and come back at me can I be liable for their costs? These big multi nationals always have something in their lease that they can bring up. 

[BankFodder]

If we can keep the claims to less than £10,000 then they would be in the small claims court. That means that even if you lost the case – most unlikely – you would only be liable for your own costs which would be extremely small.

I would suggest that you claim separately for the repair of the leak and for the damage caused to the downstairs flat.

In any event, you would win. It is clear that a leak which recurs after every attempt at repair, has not been properly repaired and so therefore they are in breach of their contractual duty.

Once again, the detail is important. Make sure you are scrupulous about getting quotations in writing from completely independent sources.

Make sure that the upstairs leaseholder fully informed as to visits for quotations and also the commencement of the work.

At some point it would be a good idea to furnish them with copies of the various quotations.

Once again, while you are in the flat, check for any breaches of regulations which apply to landlords – because that's what they are.

Also, you say that they are housing vulnerable tenants. Presumably they are doing this for the local council something. Be prepared at some point to complain to the local council that the tenants interests are not being properly looked after. Especially if you find that things like smoke alarms et cetera, monoxide alarms, safety certificates are properly in place.

Does your agreement give you any right to inspect safety certificates?

 

Who drew up the lease/agreement?

[BankFodder]

Also, you should get each one of the people who do the quotations to give a comment on the quality of the work that has been carried out so far and which has failed giving rise to the leak.

[axil23]

Thank you. Will do this and get back to you. 

[BankFodder]

Don't get into an arguement about who is going to pay the money .

Your objective at the moment is to get the independent quotations and then to put the work in hand.

Don't rock the boat

 

 

[axil23]

Understood. Sent email to gain access times for workmen to quote

Edited May 24, 2023 by axil23

[BankFodder]

Are you also putting in hand quotations for the repair of the damage to the downstairs flat?

These quotations could be obtained as quickly as possible and should be completely independent of the leak repair upstairs.

Let us know when you have got these. We are talking about at least four quotations – two up and two down. Six if possible.

I might suggest a slight change in strategy once you have got this

[BankFodder]

Also, you need to know how long they will need access to the upstairs flat. Can they do the job in a single day – meaning a single entry's – or would they need more than one day – multiple entries.
You will need to stress that the job must be of the very highest quality. You will be a good idea if photographs can be taken before and after – and even while you are escorting them for their quotations.

[axil23]

I am organising the 2 x upstairs and 2 x Downstairs quotations by tomorrow. Will be in touch as soon as I have these. 

Honestly thank you once again. You guys are so helpful. 

[BankFodder]

Don't start getting too excited. It is quite likely to start getting bloody at some point.

Have they agreed to allow you to enter for the quotations?

[axil23]

No reply to email so far. I sent it last night so I guess should give them till end of today? 

[BankFodder]

We are on the verge of the weekend. I suggest that you leave it until Monday lunchtime.

Meanwhile, please could you post up the message which you received from them in which they said that they would permit you to carry out works but they would have to be at your expense

[BankFodder]

Also a copy of any reply that you made to it and anything else in the exchange

[axil23]

My original email to ask them to pay if I do the repairs

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We wouldn’t be paying for this work to be done if the LL is completing the work – it’s the LL responsibility to complete the works.

When I asked them if they will repair the ceiling

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That is correct we would not repair the damage on a property that is not on the contract, the only thing I can advise you do at this stage is raise a complaint and you would do the by contacting the AIRE team.

 

Reply to my email for access yesterday

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Good Afternoon,

 

Thank you for your email, in order to provide access please complete and return the attached H&S form.

Please ensure a specific date and time is provided, allowing a 48 hour notice for access.

This is not acceptable as its an emergency and 48hrs will take us into the bank holiday weekend. Do I need to fill in a H&S or can I get access today as its urgent and the electrics are wet. 

[BankFodder]

What do you have to say about them saying that it is your responsibility to carry out the works? You said that the agreement make them responsible.

What is the AIRE team?

What is H & S? It would be helpful if you would give us the meaning of these acronyms without being asked.

You could certainly get access today – but that will then lead you into a confrontation which could be unhelpful.

I suggest that you start by completing the form – whatever it is – but then probably write to them in parallel. At least you have things moving along.

What are the wet electrics? I don't think you have mentioned this before

[axil23]

AIRE Team is there point of contact for tenant and LL to report repairs. 

H&S = Health & Safety

I am guessing he is saying my responsibility as they won't carry out any work on my flat downstairs due to it being company policy. 

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We are not permitted to carry out ANY works on properties that are not part of the contract, it would need to be an insurance claim situation.

Wet electrics are the ceiling light directly below the bath and 4ft away in the pantry is a fridge freezer which is also wet. The electric fusebox is tripping due to this.