Reporting tax and benefit fraud?

[watchinginvestigation2011]

The people I cant stomach are those like you read in the daily mail when an articel re benefit fraud is there and they go on how many they know are doing it and how it disgusts them, but i doubt they actually do anything and report them, all mouth some people.

 

I also know one person who shocked the hell out of me. When split with ex I became single mum and dwp came around assesed me and said I should be on dla etc... as to be honest was in bad way and couldnt talk properly to them even as had just got out of hospital. They were lovely.

 

When telling a close confident how nice they had been and the help I would get, she looked at me as **** even down to the fact that my estate was riddled with benefit ****, I have never been so shocked in all my life and it was obvious this friend did not want to be my friend any more. Thing is just prior to having to move house she admitted that for years she had been claiming what she considered entitled to benefits, she was normally very stum and private on such matters and that now due to hubby moving in she was able to come off of them.

 

Thin gwas she had a short memeory, I did not know she was on benefits, but her living arrangements had been this. Her boyfrined of many years was a constant night worker, he owned a house that he sub let out and at one time it was rented by me ex, he slept every day in her house upstairs and I thought nowt of it and we quietly chatted for a while each day.

 

When she was spouting about how benefit claimants were **** and therefore it felt as if she was calling me as such, I had a brain wave, hang on her to be hubby who was long standing live in partner of over ten years was living there. He I knew had own house and bills in name to this house but paid by his sub letters. So all this time this moo had been happy to sit in judgement on others whilst doing the same her self.

 

She had been claiming for as long as I knew I then realised and her benefit books were say on the side as she had also had a late child with the new man upstairs.

 

This woman I realised was horrible, I knew what she had done for all the years, but felt it better to realise she was one to avoid and in any case I would find it hard pressed to do antying due to the fact she was now going official and I knew the other house was in his name bills and all although he didnt live there.

 

This woman when I claimed benefits consideree me **** there was no doubt about that, but some fraudsters seem to put themselves on a pedastal especially if been doing it for years and seem to t hink they are not doing anything wrong.

 

She also it runed out had been only being so daily friendly with me a bit like mrs bucket daily tea time to hear how I was going on, to feed it back to my ex and his new partner I later found out, when she had her fill and did the damage she made me clear all people on my estate claiming benefits were ****.

 

If I had been aware years ago I would have reported her, but knew too late to do anything and as it is now I here she is spltting from her partner who cant cope with her so her situation has changed to whre she will probably have to ask for help herself once more, wonder if her opinion will have changed of people like me xx

 

Another friend of mine reported maliciously an old man as living with a woman and cause him so much distress he soon later had a stroke. Reason being he had stopped me lending her money that I myself could not afford, he reminded me she already owed me money and to say no and next thing he is reported as living with a woman.

 

Guess what I was there when they turned up to his house and they are talking about this woman, I said I think you are talking about me as I lived where they said he was living. When we told her what we suspected as much as she couldnt say yes this person did say it to us, her words were, you are not wrong and he was told it was a malicious complaint obvioulsy.

 

She had reported him when he lived about ten miles from me and was the only person I grew to trust to watch my kids when in hospital. I must say he has been dead nearly four years now and it was me who found him. I had had a seizure and asleep on the sofa, he wanted to stay with me and fell asleep sat up on the sofa, he had recently had a stoke and heart attack but would not go home as said i was too poorly. I woke to find he had died, turned out he had had another heart attack prior was aware something was wrong and chose to drive to my house and pass away here for fear he would end up in hospital miles away from us as he did care.

 

i think he knew he was dying but was more concerned I had had seizure and unfortunately both of us had a fear of hospitals. I had no idea he was having another heart attack as in and out myself, I do remmber him telling me he was hot and asked if I could reach to the window to open it, I did it and remember waking to find the room freezing adn there he was sat past away. I wish to this day I had been well enough to click something was wrong with him and that it was a sign he needed hospital, but instead I fell back to sleep and woke hours later.

 

I say the malicious stress caused to him for simply looking out for me, caused that moo to do what she did and he went down hill as was nearly seventy.

 

So if you genuinely suspect fraud it is right to report but as long as for the right reasons, i mean a malicious report will be soon sorted and detected but the stress is an unair side effect of someones revenge.

 

I msut admit op we dont judge and as said reporting although belated was right thing to do, but it has to be asked why are some happy to accept it is going on when living with them. i know there are many different situations but you could have reported it whilst lived with him at any time also and he wouldnt have been told who did it. xx

 

We dont judge, but seems those who judge more viciously but for not genuine reason as in outing a fraudster, are the ones up to something themselves in the end. Possibly guilt or need to show honesty for an alteria motive perhaps, we can only guess.

 

We live and learn xx

Edited April 30, 2011 by watchinginvestigation2011

[jadeybags]

The OP has said they reported it as soon as they found out, recently.

The children thing would have me hesitating to report someone I have to admit though.

Simply because I know how completely petrifying being called in for an IUC actually is, & I dont think that is fair on the children of the person that has to go through that, regardless of guilt.

Just think about this though, if you saw someone rob a bank & knew who it was, & they did it on a regular basis, like once a week? Because lets be honest, that's about how often blatant benefit cheats are thieving, would you turn a blind eye & just say 'good luck to em?'

[Deimos]

I did hesitate for a couple of months, because I just couldn't get my head around the fact this guy has wasted over £100,000 since moving in with us, in a matter of 4 years

 

He gets a private pension of over £1000 a month, plus another private one, which I believe to be in the hundreds, plus the take away cash in hand money, yet can't somehow afford a mortgage?

 

It's only in the last two months we've become aware of the tax/benefit fraud, plus massive debts he's racking up, we estimate the total to be over £25000.

[sj01]

I have reported many people for fraud :o

Yes I work for the JCP but I also have reported my partners family for fraud, receiving undeclared income (very large overpayment and appearnace in court!), living with a partner whilst claiming as a lone parent (very large overpayment the first time and then ended up in court after my second referral and was given a large fine and suspended sentence)

Did I feel guilty? No! It's blatant theft, I look at it from the grounds that uif I witnessed a crime I would report it and no qualms about identifying the person either.

Oh and I reported my neighbour for Council Tax fraud as she moved her boyfriend in but he never registered as living with her prefering to stop at his parents for voting etc, until they decided that she needed to be called in for interview, I noticed the car outside our home several times as I knew the fraud officer).

\

you must be so proud. I hope you have never done anything wrong in your whole life, have you ?

[jadeybags]

\

you must be so proud. I hope you have never done anything wrong in your whole life, have you ?

 

sj you make it sound like something people would aspire to do.

It's not the school playground or Wakefield prison where 'lagging' is a no no. This is the real world.

[sj01]

sj you make it sound like something people would aspire to do.

It's not the school playground or Wakefield prison where 'lagging' is a no no. This is the real world.

 

No, its far from the play ground and not trivial either.

I have read thread after thread on this site of people on the edge of suicide with worry and stress.

I am horrified about the amount of people on here that show their true colours when this subject comes up.

There was a thread in August 2010 where person after person condemned the government for trying to get people to report their friends and neighbours.

The government are not giving people enough money to live on and they are going to sanction people and try and make them do unpaid work for their JSA, the are persecuting disabled and ill people yet you are willing to do their job for them when you may not even be right.

In my opinion 'lagging' as you put it is a no no when it comes to something as serious as this, especially when a lot of it is done through envy and malice.

[Nystagmite]

Would you rather they just got away with committing fraud, SJ?

[jadeybags]

No, its far from the play ground and not trivial either.

I have read thread after thread on this site of people on the edge of suicide with worry and stress.

I am horrified about the amount of people on here that show their true colours when this subject comes up.

There was a thread in August 2010 where person after person condemned the government for trying to get people to report their friends and neighbours.

The government are not giving people enough money to live on and they are going to sanction people and try and make them do unpaid work for their JSA, the are persecuting disabled and ill people yet you are willing to do their job for them when you may not even be right.

In my opinion 'lagging' as you put it is a no no when it comes to something as serious as this, especially when a lot of it is done through envy and malice.

 

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

I actually think it's because of the genuine people that are having problems with sanctions etc, that it makes it even worse that people are getting away with benefit fraud.

[sj01]

Its quite funny really that there is a whole section on this forum that is especially there to help people get away with shop lifting.

I suppose that people see the world in different ways.

I do not condone theft or fraud but I wonder how many people on here have been completely honest all their lives.

Are we saying that there are some types of dishonesty that are ok as long as it doesnt involve too much money.

I will leave it there as I have hijacked the thread.

[watchinginvestigation2011]

They dont help them get away with shoplifting, it is advice what to do when the unfair supposed fines by RLP arrive. The store is the one who makes the decision wether to ring the police and make formal charge or ban from a store.

 

The nail on the head is the blatant fraudsters who probably have not care or concern as to what they are doing should be reported because those pushed to despair over just claiming what entitled to feel guilty enough for needing help and the view of benefit claimants by a lot of people not in the same position is one of **** unfortunately. It is just hard to chew hearing so many say I know person doing this or that, if they are so concerned and feel it is wrong, then report them.

 

As much as distressing as it is to those who appear here unable to deal with why someone can be so malicious when making false report, it is a situation soon resolved as in well if you are innocent they will realise that as horrible as the process might be and then time to get over it.

 

I say to malicious reporters karma xx

 

You can always tell a malicious reporter who is close to home, they start to hang around even more and cant resist asking searching questions hoping for the thrill that they will get confidence supplied as to what is distressing the falsely reported. I remember after my friend was cleared the woman repeatedly asking him to visit round for tea, she also asked for me to visit her and then to his face started asking how things were going and was he alright money wise. This woman was the one who had been cadging of me for ages and then not repaying, money I was borrowing from the provvy because she seemed desperate, when it stopped, well put it this way we knew it was her and she obvioulsy got no feedback from her report as we could tell she was stupid enough to ask searching questions. B***h and well rid off xx

[jadeybags]

Its quite funny really that there is a whole section on this forum that is especially there to help people get away with shop lifting.

I suppose that people see the world in different ways.

I do not condone theft or fraud but I wonder how many people on here have been completely honest all their lives.

Are we saying that there are some types of dishonesty that are ok as long as it doesnt involve too much money.

I will leave it there as I have hijacked the thread.

 

I dont go on other sections of this site so I dont know about that.

But of course we have all done things wrong. We're all human. That doesn't mean we haven't sufferred because of it in one way or another. And it also doesn't mean people should be getting away with benefit fraud. That doesn't mean I would go on a mission to be reporting all n sundry, but I also dont feel guilty lagging on that bloke years ago & others shouldn't either. But yeh, i'll leave it there too.

[leemack]

No, its far from the play ground and not trivial either.

I have read thread after thread on this site of people on the edge of suicide with worry and stress.

I am horrified about the amount of people on here that show their true colours when this subject comes up.

There was a thread in August 2010 where person after person condemned the government for trying to get people to report their friends and neighbours.

The government are not giving people enough money to live on and they are going to sanction people and try and make them do unpaid work for their JSA, the are persecuting disabled and ill people yet you are willing to do their job for them when you may not even be right.

In my opinion 'lagging' as you put it is a no no when it comes to something as serious as this, especially when a lot of it is done through envy and malice.

 

I understand what you're saying.

 

I've met lots of people who've commited benefit fraud, they would come to our service for help after they'd been found out. Very few were doing it to rake in loads of money, or were criminal masterminds. Most had just been in difficult situations, laden with debt, had mental health issues/learning difficulties or genuinely on a very low income. I have real sympathy with single people on benefits, I don't know how they manage. Most benefit cheats I've seen haven't gone out to commit a crime, they've just fallen into it, a series of poor decisions made in desperation. Then there are those who did plan it, they did not declare something from the very beginning of the claim - like one guy I saw with two additional houses (tenanted and bringing in income), a pension and an undeclared non dependant, this is someone deliberately defrauding the system. Or the person who claims to be disabled but isn't and runs marathons.

 

Benefit fraud is wrong. But it doesn't mean that a person can't have sympathy for those who've been desperate.

 

Would I shop someone? I don't know. While working for the DWP I caught a few attempting it at the beginning of their claim (they think we don't look at their bankstatements), but while working for an advice centre, the policy was not to, due to confidentiality - though we refused to help anyone we found to be fraudulent, advised them to come clean and to help with dealing with any overpayment. It might surprise you how many gratefully took us up on the offer to help them. Like they'd become trapped and didn't know a way out. None of the people I helped who willingly gave themselves in were prosecuted, but I think that things are changing and many more prosecutions are taking place.

 

Having seen so many desperate people, if I found a friend or family member or friendly neighbour was commiting benefit fraud, I would try to talk to them, offer my help in dealing with the dwp/la/hmrc, explain it was only a matter of time until someone else found out and would report them, and that it was better they gave themselves in than were discovered following an investigation. People make mistakes, and if they're someone I care about then my first instinct is to help them put right their mistake, and mitigate the fallout, rather than first reaching for the phone and calling the hotline.

 

If it was someone who was obviously not desperate but rather more of a criminal, and especially if they were bragging about their exploits, then I probably would call the hotline - but I would have to be absolutely sure about it. I've also seen how these things devastate the innocent who were reported falsely out of spite or malice, or by mistake.

 

With the OP he was being personally financially harmed by the family member's fraud, while the family member profitted - him reporting this is entirely understandable.

Edited May 1, 2011 by leemack

[Deimos]

These posts should be in a seperate thread discussing the rights/wrongs of reporting.

[leemack]

These posts should be in a seperate thread discussing the rights/wrongs of reporting.

 

I understand what you're saying but the thread is titled 'reporting tax and benefit fraud', and the OP was asking for other's opinions/experiences on the matter.

[Deimos]

Heh, good point, I forgot what I wrote in the original post.

[Nystagmite]

then to his face started asking how things were going and was he alright money wise.

 

I would've told her to bog off. I've been asked by a friend if I receive DLA. It wasn't a "I think you're claiming when you shouldn't be" type question. It was more "are you claiming what you're entitled to?" question. I've asked people questions like that and have been asked a few times too.

[watchinginvestigation2011]

I would've told her to bog off. I've been asked by a friend if I receive DLA. It wasn't a "I think you're claiming when you shouldn't be" type question. It was more "are you claiming what you're entitled to?" question. I've asked people questions like that and have been asked a few times too.

 

Oh I agree there are those who could ask the question with genuine want to help, but this woman we just nasty, she had no trouble asking weekly to borrow money from him which to be fair she paid back or me which she didnt. She knew his situation well as had known him about twenty years and saw him frequently, he knew her better than me and it was him who said he detected something was wrong in her mannerism, he also said he thought it was her straight away after she complained of him telling me not to lend her any money. I mean to be honest I was borrowing money to give to her, she when did repay it was not paying the interest I had to pay to get it and my friend said you have to stop it, she is not giving it back to you.

 

This same woman also told the woman accross the road who was being evicted to come to me to borrow money. I didnt know the woman apart from seeing her drunk regualry and there she was telling me she was told to come by you know who, and could I lend her £500.00 or she and her kids were to be evicted. She was peed crying and desperate and the only reason her friend who knew me refered her to me was they had labelled me a MUG or soft touch. I apologised politely and just said I dont know where she gave you the idea I would have £500.00 and told a slight porkie that if I did have it I would give it to you to be polite xx

 

The words of the investigator said it all, I am not allowed to tell you who it was, but you are not wrong in your suspicions. It was all left friendly with her telling me to be careful of who my friends were. I feel her report to him was to indirectly get to me and him for daring to stop her taking money, in fact she did me a favor because he stopped seeing her. My elderly friend was a very very wise man and I often want to get the courage to visit his grave which is miles away from where I live and see if he has got a headstone yet and if not one day manage to make sure he has. I hope his family have got him one but over two years later I found he still hadnt got one and feel such a man should leave his mark where he lays, he left a mark with me as I now realise without his support and wise words I might have lost my kids xx

 

 

 

 

After that I totally ignore her and she got the message.

 

But yes I agree there are also some genuine people out there who are concerned and looking out for their frineds. Just that although if slow on the uptake it might take a while, you do eventually learn who are genuine and who are not xx

Edited May 1, 2011 by watchinginvestigation2011

[A_wee_fella]

the forum seems to offer a lot of comfort and support for those committing fraud but none for those who see it for what it is; theft. A poster said 'I hope you feel proud' and commented that they hoped they hadn't done anything wrong in their life. Sorry...what? Thousands of pounds of public funding stolen, from me, from you, from your children. Sorry but no sympathy, the sooner we can break the social norm that it is okay to defraud the public purse the better.

[flumps1976]

The comment about not doing anything wrong was directed at me and until now I have chosen to leave any reply as it was in my mind a personal point, but the answer is "NO" I have never knowingly broken the law. I was raised by my parents to respect authority thank you.

Commiting benefit fraud is not a victimless crime it affects every single person in the country. If fraud could be eradicated then maybe the working tax payer would have more income and maybe those dependant on benefits would receive a more acceptable amount too.

[jadeybags]

I do find it a bit confusing on here I have to admit. Tax credit fraud does seem to be more acceptable than benefit fraud, that'll be down to the governments different attitude to it rubbing off I expect.

Is there a difference between that & benefit fraud? Genuinely interested.

Is Tax credits from the government & benefits from the tax payer?

[Nystagmite]

Given that credits are benefits, I don't get it either, Jade.

[lady-in-red]

i couldnt report anyone for that, but there are many who do and enjoy watching the misery it causes, its not my business full stop

[Nystagmite]

i couldnt report anyone for that, but there are many who do and enjoy watching the misery it causes, its not my business full stop

 

You'd be happy for someone to commit fraud?

[lady-in-red]

it doesn't concern me what others do, im not a snoop, some people dont pay car tax again not my business

[jadeybags]

Generally speaking I dont disagree with that statement, it's their problem, & will become a big problem for them eventually more than likely anyway, but I also dont disagree with people reporting them either though. For vindictive reasons or not. Does it actually make a big difference if it's for vindictive reasons? It doesn't make much difference why people report someone. The only time it's wrong is if the allegation isn't true & they just want to cause someone grief. If you dont know if they are committing fraud for sure, dont go there. I dont agree with that.