Black Horse took my car this morning.

[daisy lighter]

As title.

 

9.40 the door was knocked. Dog went mad. Woman there to take my car. Believe it or not this is not the worst thing that has happened today !

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?300814-Multiple-Defaults-on-Sons-Credit-File-Not-His

 

Car bought in early 2008. Business failed and I was declared bankrupt November 2008. Kept car as on finance.

Termination notice September 2009.

Then nothing. Absolutely nothing. Same address, same phone numbers, mot done, taxed and insured. I didn't pay anything and BH didn't contact me.

2010 June I decided to phone them and ask for a settlement figure. Was given a figure which I thought was too high (way too high) so I asked them to reconsider the price taking into account that I was a discharged bankrupt and had entered any possible future shortfall from the car onto my bankruptcy.

Black horse said they would reconsider and phone me back. I offered to pay them something & we agreed on a figure of £400 which I paid there and then.

 

Again nothing. I noticed in March that they had entered a default with Experian and then today they turned up.

 

It was very civilized. Realistically I have had use of the car for nearly two years and have paid very little. (In total I think just over half of it has been paid)

 

What I really want to know is, do I have any reasonable chance of getting the default removed from the credit reference agencies as the default was registered 18 months after the contract was terminated.

OR

As I included the car in the bankruptcy do I ask them to back date the default to the 2008 bankruptcy date as is the case with all other debts?

 

Anybody any ideas?

[postggj]

intereting

 

black horse normaly do fixed sum loan agreements

 

what is your agreement

 

hire purchase or fixed sum loan

[daisy lighter]

Hi Postggj

 

It is an HP agreement. I don't have the credit agreement but the default notice says that in Nov 09 there was £6351.90 total owed and £2914.40 paid. I paid at least £400 last year and have vague recollection of maybe 2 other payments before that, for perhaps a total of £350.

 

Think I have been very lucky with this to date!

Should probably get all info from BH - not at all sure which way to go with this default tho. I'll sarn them anyway and that will give me time to think about it.

 

 

[postggj]

you need to confirm if you have paid over half

 

if they did a repo with out a court order it will be unlawful recession of contract and very serious for black horse

 

ime talking all your payments returned etc

[daisy lighter]

Was going to pen a wee letter tonight reminding BH that they are unable to chase me for any shortfall along with my request for documents but I have just found out where the car is going to be sold next week so I might wait until I try and buy it back, price dependent, first.

Also just remembered that I should have taken the tax disc as there is 10 months tax on it. Silly mare. I will just ask them for it if I don't get to buy it back.

[neontetra]

postggj

 

I didn't get any court order but the woman who came to pick it up said it had been to court. Her words were " you can't be surprised, its been to court" I never thought a thing on it but now I'm starting to wonder about everything. I just thought I was lucky that they hadn't come sooner as that's what I was expecting in 2008.

 

My calculations say I have paid over half but I can't confirm anything without the paperwork. Yep, am suddenly wondering why they never came for the car - maybe there's something that I don't know.

I will get confirmation from BH. I am quite shocked at myself for not having the credit agreement as I keep everything together. Come to think of it, the whole buying process was very strange. My ex partner choose the car in a tiny garage way out in the country. He filled in the paperwork and paid the deposit. I called in and signed a form.Then he went back a couple of days later and collected the car.

My driving license was out of date and at the wrong address so I'm sure I couldn't have used that as ID. Do you have to use your license to get HP?

 

 

Think I'd better get the credit agreement.

 

[daisy lighter]

Neontetra is catflap.

[raydetinu]

Strange! if they have got car and you have paid more than half= no debt. therfore ask them to remvove default.

as you say do a SAR.

[daisy lighter]

Thank you raydetinu

 

That sounds like the most straight forward way. I didn't know that. First time I have really looked at car finance or repossession. There seems to be quite a lot to it but with the amount of knowledge on this site I will get there.

 

Thanks, very interesting. I will get my sar away as soon as the PO is open.

[dx100uk]

me thinks more than just the repro lady are lying here

dunno why you let her take it

they hsve no legal powers to do so

 

does anything show on your cra

 

i bet not..you've been fleeced here

 

as postggj says [and i learned from the master here!]

what they hsve poss just done is given you a free car and all your paymnets back too!

 

dx

[PaulW922]

Ok - just to clarify, as this was an HP agreement then Black Horse can recover the car without a court order unless at least 1/3 the whole amount due under the agreement (inc interest) has been paid. That would exclude any default charges etc. Furthermore, as the loan is secured on the asset, as you say, only any shortfall can form part of the bankruptcy. The asset still remains security for the debt, as you home would in the case of a mortgage. In this case it seems that BH have been to court anyway. Additionally, the amount you have paid has no bearing on the default notice, so I am afraid that the OP above is wrong there. If the agreement has been broken, and it clearly has, then BH can issue a default notice. They cannot however issue more than one for the same default. If more than one has been issued the earliest applies.

 

Under HP you can voluntarily terminate the agreement after at least half the amount due has been paid, but you would need to do that yourself - a repossession would not count. The lender could also require you to pay any overdue amounts even if you did voluntarily surrender the vehicle. I don't see that this can apply here.

 

As well as a copy of the credit agreement (CRA) I would also seek a full statement of account and details of all the correspondence sent and received as well as details of phone calls which will be noted on your file. You also need to ask about the date and court location of any CCJ/repossession order. Until you have all the facts to hand I don't think you can decide on a way forward with this..

Edited April 29, 2011 by PaulW922

[daisy lighter]

dx100uk

 

I let them take the car as I had expected the car to be repossessed 2008/2009. I never expected to have it as long as I did. So when it went yesterday I just accepted it. Seemed fair enough to me morally as I hadn't paid it. I loved the car and will try to buy it back.

BH registered a default in March 2011. When I saw it I realized that BH hadn't just forgotten me and that the car would be going, so I felt like I was on borrowed time and was expecting a knock.

 

PaulW922

Thanks for all the information. Was I right then in my original assessment of the situation? That the default should be set at a date of no later than the BR date as with other debts?

 

As all have advised I will get the info from BH first.

 

Thanks dx100uk and PaulW, much appreciated, when I get the sar docs I hope you will be about for help then

[PaulW922]

The default notice is effectively issued whenever the lender considers the agreement to have broken down and if they left it for over three years I would be astonished. That is why I suggest that you need to get hold of all the paperwork and all the correspondence and notes from Black Horse before you decide what to do.

[postggj]

Ok - just to clarify, as this was an HP agreement then Black Horse can recover the car without a court order unless at least 1/3 the whole amount due under the agreement (inc interest) has been paid.++

thats true but if the vehicle was on private property then s.92 of the cca would kick in and the creditor would need a court order to repo off private property

 

quote

 

The lender could also require you to pay any overdue amounts even if you did voluntarily surrender the vehicle

 

may i ask what over due amounts you are thinking of????

[daisy lighter]

Postggj

 

I am 100% that I did not get anything from the court. And yes the car was in my driveway. Its quite a long driveway too. You have to walk past the bedroom and kitchen windows of my house to get to where the car sits. The woman just said I shouldn't be surprised as it had gone to court but she never even left me a card saying who she was.

 

Feel like a bit stupid now coz I didn't even get her name or company.

Though I do know where its being sold next week and it is an auction full of lenders cars so she was sent by BH.

[PaulW922]

The lender could also require you to pay any overdue amounts even if you did voluntarily surrender the vehicle

 

may i ask what over due amounts you are thinking of????

 

 

 

Well, any instalment due that has not been paid - what else could it mean?

 

If I owed on a hypothetical loan the Jan, Feb and March payments, and I chose to make a voluntary surrender in April because over half the repayments had been made, that would not wipe out the three overdue payments. You cannot 'back-date' a voluntary surrender of a car under an HP agreement.

 

It is true that a car on a driveway or private parking space is technically on private property but in reality, unless it is closed off, I think it unlikely that a court would say that walking onto your driveway to take the car was a serious enough trespass to warrant the repossession itself unlawful. A DJ in a county court makes his or her decision on what they consider reasonable in the individual circumstances and it frequently comes down to the individual Judge rather than the letter of the law.

[dx100uk]

but in reality, unless it is closed off, I think it unlikely that a court would say that walking onto your driveway to take the car was a serious enough trespass to warrant the repossession itself unlawful

 

what.....!

 

its private property!

 

dx

[PaulW922]

Yes it is but we are talking about what happens in real life not what is theoretically correct.

[daisy lighter]

The default notice is effectively issued whenever the lender considers the agreement to have broken down and if they left it for over three years I would be astonished.

 

Me too. I just thought they either liked me or had lost all the paperwork!

 

Bought April 2008

Agreement terminated in September 2009

Default on Experian March 2011

Car taken Yesterday

 

Almost 3 years to the day.

[postggj]

Yes it is but we are talking about what happens in real life not what is theoretically correct.

 

been there

done that

got the tshirt

 

remember caz dx as well

 

the law is the law

 

also

 

you cannot do a vt and owe nothing with arrears outstanding or it would be a voluntry surender

 

vt- voluntry termination pay 50 % and owe nothing ( look up s.90 of the cca) for breach

vs- voluntry surender liabilities on the agreement still stand

 

two total different bits of legislation

Edited April 29, 2011 by postggj

[PaulW922]

you cannot do a vt and owe nothing with arrears outstanding or it would be a voluntry surender

 

vt- voluntry termination pay 50 % and owe nothing

 

Which is what I said.

 

But neither apply here as the car was repossessed and may well have been with a court order although Catflap doesn't remember getting one.

 

Civil law and it's interpretation is about what the court considers to be reasonable. In this case the lender's representative came to the door, said they were repossessing the car and Catflap (presumably) handed over the keys and didn't instruct them to leave (again, presumably).

[PaulW922]

Bought April 2008

Agreement terminated in September 2009

Default on Experian March 2011

Car taken Yesterday

 

Almost 3 years to the day.

 

The agreement was terminated by the lender yes? In which case that would be the date of default. A copy of the termination notice should confirm that and enable you to put the default date back two years.

[postggj]

ignorence is bliss , so in a sense i agree

but if the repo agent said they had a court order and infact had none it woukd then become a breach of statutory duty as of s.92 of the cca

Edited April 29, 2011 by postggj

[PaulW922]

ignorence is bliss , so in a sense i agree

 

I dont know what that is supposed to mean. I think I'll give up on this one

[postggj]

quote

 

The agreement was terminated by the lender yes? In which case that would be the date of default. A copy of the termination notice should confirm that and enable you to put the default date back two years.

 

a default is issued prior to a termination. it gives the debtor 14 days to rectify and after 14 days has elapsed the creditor has up to three months to register a default

 

a termination notice can be issued at any time, an account does not have to be defaulted to be terminated, as long as advance notice has been given

 

an acount can be sold after default without termination also