Please help! Are the same rules applied to disabled parking in ncp multi storey as on the highway?

[jqinfo]

Hello Everyone

 

Please does anyone know whether the same rules apply in a multi storey car park for parking in a disabled bay as on the highway? I am disabled and parked in the disabled bay and paid for my parking(£9.80). Unfortunately my disabled badge was out of date, but I did not think that in a multi storey car park it would be the same rules as the highway? I paid for my parking, I was not trying to evade payment, just to indicate that I was disabled. I was in agony and I wanted to park as near to the lift as possible. Normally I would have taken my daughter with me to assist, but it was Christmas Eve, shopping had to be done and she had been admitted to hospital following a massive asthma attack and we were unsure whether she would be home for Christmas. Therefore, I was left to do the last minute shopping by myself. What a lovely present to come back to after a long, painful shop, for which I paid?

 

The sign said "Ristricted parking disabled badge holders only", unlike some that say "valid" badge holders. I am a badge holder, just an out of date one!

 

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated. I have tried to appeal and they are not having any of it. I have explained the circumstances and they do not care.

 

I have just had to pay a ticket in a council car park for not being exactly in the white lines (free parking with a disc) and I loathe to be caught out again for a minor issue. I could not park in my white lines because the car adjacent was squint and over my lines!

 

JQ

[DBC]

First thing to establish is if this is a private car-park, or one managed by NCP on behalf of the council.

[sailor sam]

Disabled bays have no legal standing on a private car park so the fact that your badge has expired is irrelevant. What have you been issued with and how much is the 'charge?'

[jqinfo]

Thank you for your swift response.

 

It is NCP on behalf of council?

 

JQ

[sailor sam]

Thank you for your swift response.

 

It is NCP on behalf of council?

 

JQ

 

So it's a council car park... where is it?

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[jqinfo]

Disabled bays have no legal standing on a private car park so the fact that your badge has expired is irrelevant. What have you been issued with and how much is the 'charge?'

 

Also, thank you for your swift response!

 

In the Notice of Rejection "Parked in a designated disabled persons parking space without displaying a valid disabled persons badge in the prescribed manner" I cannot remember what it specified on the ticket I have put it in a safe place and cannot find it!! They checked to see whether it was in date!

 

JQ

[jqinfo]

so it's a council car park... Where is it?

 

please note

 

 

the advice i offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

 

 

i would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

worthing west sussex!

[jqinfo]

Disabled bays have no legal standing on a private car park so the fact that your badge has expired is irrelevant. What have you been issued with and how much is the 'charge?'

 

 

Oh and it is £70, which will become £105 if not paid or appealed!

 

JQ

[Al27]

Does it say "Traffic Management Act 2004" anywhere?

[jqinfo]

Does it say "Traffic Management Act 2004" anywhere?

 

Hi Al27

 

Yes it does, it states Re: Notice of Rejection of Representations - Traffic Management Act 2004 - s78; Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regs 2007; Civl Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007.

 

It also states that my representations were considered in accordance with the said act and that the PCN was correctly issued and legally served in accordance with Reg 9 of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regs 2007.

 

Sounds all very legal and above board, albeit in my opinion, jolly unfair. Do you have any ideas?

 

JQ

Edited March 24, 2011 by jqinfo
Added a bit.

[Al27]

Some councils are often no better than private companies dishing out fake invoices and disallow all appeals as a matter of course.

 

We need to see scans of all the paperwork and photos of the car park would be useful.

[jqinfo]

Some councils are often no better than private companies dishing out fake invoices and disallow all appeals as a matter of course.

 

We need to see scans of all the paperwork and photos of the car park would be useful.

 

Thank you. I will scan in paperwork tomorrow, when I have worked out how to blank out the details!! I know how to change a word doc &then save as pdf, but I have a page of photos from council & I assume I will have to scan in as a pdf, which I will not be able to change? Or am I being a bit dim? Then I will work out how to upload them. Lol!

 

Thank you for your input thus far.

 

JQ

[Jamberson]

Instead of creating a pdf, can you scan it and save it as a picture format such as gif, jpeg, etc? Or if you have to save it as a pdf, can you then open it and save it as a picture format?

 

If you can, then you should have Paint installed on your PC. Open it with that, and erase, or draw a box over the top of whatever you want to hide.

[jqinfo]

Super, thank you Jambersome, I will give it a go!

 

Watch this space! Lol!

 

JQ

[jqinfo]

Hi Folks

 

I have tried to attach the photos, letters etc and below is my email representation:-

 

Dear Sirs

 

I write regarding the above numbered PCN to request that it be reviewed. I am charged with my blue badge being obscured. I did hastily display my badge on the dashboard, almost throwing my blue clock up too, not actually realising that I needed to be as vigilant about placing my badge as clearly as one does on the street. I thought in a multi storey car park it would be more about showing that I was disabled than being exactly as one must on the street, because it is not a public highway?

 

My apologies for not understanding the situation, but my main thought at the time was to be as near to a lift and central as possible for ease of shopping. Normally I would have my daughter with me to do the physical stuff, but she had been admitted to the Acute Medical Ward in St Richard's Hospital in Chichester following an acute asthma attack. She was kept in on oxygen, a nebuliser and steroids etc etc. This left me to sort out the shopping by myself in total agony. This was not what we had expected and coupled with the worry of my daughter's poor health and whether she would actually be at home for Christmas, I had to physically do all the things that she was going to do with me, by myself. I did not check the position of my badge before leaving the car, as I explained I thought it was more about showing I am disabled rather than a legal requirement as is required on the highways.

 

I did pay £9.60 for my parking, as per ticket no 6201/055282800/016203. I did not try to evade paying, nor intend to park illegally. I was in agony and I had to park as centrally as possible, because I knew it was going to be a long, arduous, pain filled shopping trip, with no assistance and I had to make the best of the situation! I wanted everything done so that if they did let my daughter home for Christmas, she would not feel obliged to try and help. As it was they eventually let her home later on Christmas Eve with strict instructions as to her breathing and medicine. Her condiiton was dangerous and any minor deterioration would involve an immediate return to hospital; and judging by today's standard, she may well be back in this evening!

 

Please review this ticket and realise I did not intend to do any harm, I just wanted to indicate that I was disabled and that is why I parked there at put my badge up as I did. I nearly did not put my blue clock up, because I did not see it necessary when I was paying for my parking and I could stay as long as I wanted. There was no restriction/time limit to which I had to adhere, so I did not deem it necessary, but just popped it up at the last minute. Thank goodness I did or that would have been another contravention!

 

Please have some compassion for an already stressed, painstricken person facing an awful Christmas with an extremely sick daughter and please cancel this ticket.

 

Many thanks.

 

Kind regards.

 

 

I hope it has worked? Any comments much appreciated!

 

JQ

PCN NOTICE OF REJECTION OF REPRESENTATION PAGE 2.doc

PCN NOTICE OF REJECTION OF REPRESENTATION PAGE 3.doc

[green_and_mean]

I'm confused? In your first post you said the PCN was because the badge was out of date, in the letter above you say it was because it was obscured? Was the badge valid or not?

[jqinfo]

Hello & thank you for your response. I don't have a good memory due to a brain issue, but I thought the original ticket was for the badge not being correctly displayed because the clock coveted the date. However, I can't remember where I put the ticket!

 

JQ

[jqinfo]

Oh & yes it was out of date, but becsuse I wasn't on the highway I didn't think it mattered, I had to pay & there was no limit to how long I could park!

 

Perhaps I was stupid, I don't know? Am I the only person who thought that way? I thought it was a private car park & thus was not "policed" in the same manner. I thought it was convenience to park nearest the lift, I didn't think it was law! Not only that most of the spaces were empty!

 

JQ

[green_and_mean]

Most Councils would usually cancel on susequent production of the badge to show it was valid, but as it wasn't that wouldn't apply and if cynical they'll probably think you covered it to hide the fact that it was expired. The best thing to do is check the traffic order for the car park to see if it states a valid badge must be displayed.

[jqinfo]

Hi All

 

I have just found my Blue Badge Scheme Booklet that came with my disabled badge and quoted under No 6 Where The Scheme Does Not Apply, it states "The scheme does not apply in off-street car parks". Therefore, does this mean that I have been charged erroneously??

 

Furthermore, the only mention of misuse or criminal offences is with regard to those who ARE NOT disabled. Not those who are and do not have a valid badge! My badge may have expired, but my Disability Living Alllowance is awarded indefinitely. So, not only did I pay for my parking, I am disabled and displayed a badge albeit out of date, it appears that I am actually being penalised for being disabled and parking near the lift?

 

Please may I have some comments on this, because if this guide is correct my badge is not valid in the car park anyway?

 

 

JQ

[DBC]

If this is a council car park then that council would have applied an off- street traffic order thus making the blue-badge scheme operable in this car-park.

Edited March 30, 2011 by DBC

[jqinfo]

Thank you for that DBC, do you know if this has always been the case?

 

Surely if this is possible then it should be explained in the rule book? I thought I was within the rules of the scheme, as I interpreted it and as it did not have any further explanation visible in the car park or an update in the law notified to me, how could I possibly be aware of that?

 

JQ

[jqinfo]

If this is a council car park then that council would have applied an off- street traffic order thus making the blue-badge scheme operable in this car-park.

 

Hello again DBC

 

I have just come across the Thornton V Shoe Lane case, does this apply to my ticket if the correct signage of the requirements of the blue badge scheme are not displayed readily and I have entered via a barrier ticket machine outside on the road and then inside the multistorey car park I have parked, thinking it is not the same as parking on the highway; and as per my blue badge scheme indicates?

 

Thank you for your input.

 

JQ

[jqinfo]

Anything else? Anybody?

 

JQ

[green_and_mean]

Personally I think you are bang to rights, the badge was 3 months out of date and does look like you deliberately obscured the date to avoid a PCN (even if that wasn't the case). http://tro.parking-adjudication.gov.uk/files/WU01.pdf the TRO seems to back up the PCN so cannot really see a way out.