Bristow & sutor notice of seizure of goods

[RaeUK]

You've made a good start, dobie, and this thread is littered with good advice. Nice attitude the council have if they don't even care if someone is on benefits or is disabled. I'm sure you'll get to where you need to go and I hope your daughter is feeling better. Sometimes these things go wonderfully smoothly, other times they'll lie, cheat and fight tooth and nail. If the bailiff/council go down the latter route, don't be disheartened as you are in the right.

Best wishes

Rae

 

Hi PT, I'm just dipping my toes back in the CAG pool!

[dobiedogs]

Hi greenpimpernel, she can prove exactly when she moved out she also has a copy of the deposit she paid on her new house and the tenancy agreement. There is also a receipt from removal firm with address from and to she also has a copy of the council tax bill for the new area she moved to with the date on it.

[ploddertom]

 

 

Hi PT, I'm just dipping my toes back in the CAG pool!

 

Come on in the waters warm. Hope you are feeling much better and looking forward to the clocks changing this weekend.

 

PT

[dobiedogs]

Thank you Kelcou and everybody, daughter is still a bag of nerves, but fortunately I don't crumble and I suppose I'm in 'Defending the Chick' mode, so to speak.

 

I know what i'm up against with this particular council and luckily I can stay calm and be very persistent no matter how rude they are to me.

 

So letters will be fired off tomorrow and I'll update when I get a reply, if any!

[RaeUK]

Make sure you send them 'signed for' so you have proof of receipt. Mark the envelopes either 'Private & Confidential for the attention of...' or 'Private & Personal'. This will increase the chances of the letters going to their intended addressee as opposed to a run of the mill clerk who may not escalate and respond ...

Rae.

[dobiedogs]

Well guess what has just turned up in the post!

A copy of all the council tax / nndr bills and a letter for each account stating that my daughter has 14 days from the date of the letter to bring the accounts up to date or they will be putting it in the hands of the Bailiffs!

 

Strangely enough they all have the same date on which is 18th February 2011, now my daughter is absolutely adamant that she did not recieve any letters from the council back in February. However this suggests that these were apparently sent out then. These are not copies , but the actual letters and the bills are all addressed to my daughter and not her partner, whereas the original bills had both names on them.

 

Now forgive me for being somewhat cynical, but does this not smack of someone at the council sending out letters after they had placed the accounts with the bailiff and after my telephone conversation with them quoting chapter and verse of the rules & regs (thanks everyone) and now they have realised that they have dropped a bit of a boo boo!

 

Anyway off now to study said bills and letters!

[outlawla]

Well guess what has just turned up in the post!

A copy of all the council tax / nndr bills and a letter for each account stating that my daughter has 14 days from the date of the letter to bring the accounts up to date or they will be putting it in the hands of the Bailiffs!

 

Strangely enough they all have the same date on which is 18th February 2011, now my daughter is absolutely.........

 

I'm currently in dispute with my council about letter's dates that don't tally up with when they are sent. My assumption is that it's the council's automated system that deals with hundreds if not thousands of letters in one go, i.e. they wait until there's a batch to send out and one date fits all. They categorically deny this though. Having said that your case is extreme being a month out of sync; as you say perhaps there's a little more to this than postal issues.

[dobiedogs]

Have checked the bills and letters, bills have definate descrepancies as regards dates and amounts payments made ect. Everything is addressed to the daughter and not the partner although the notice of seizure does have both names on. Checked on original bills and both daughter and partners names are on them. These 'copies' aren't the same as the originals or is this arguing semantics?

 

Quick phone call to the council ref the partner and snotty reply saying " we've sent everything you have asked for!" No they haven't! No date the Liability order was obtained or when the council put it in the hands of the bailiff.

 

So nothing in partners name then his name shouldn't be on the NoS as far as I'm concerned.

No response as yet to the email sent to B & S, but neither have they turned up yet.

 

Would it be worth sending a SAR to the council?

[dobiedogs]

computers!

Edited March 22, 2011 by dobiedogs
multiple entry

[dobiedogs]

Sorry computer went wacky

Edited March 22, 2011 by dobiedogs
multiple entries

[RaeUK]

You'd be better off dealing with the council solely in writing. I suspect the reason the bills are suddenly in only your daughters name is that she's the easiest one to chase. If you haven't done so already, I'd suggest you draft one concise letter dealing with your complaint, enclosing your daughters written permission for you to handle the case, copies of supporting medical evidence, reference / quote the National Standards. Make an offer your daughter can reasonably afford to make and maintain - noting new bills are thudding on doorsteps - send directly to Head of Revenues together with notification that failure to address the matter will result in a Formal Complaint to the council CEO etc ...

Rae

[dobiedogs]

Had a response from B& S to my email re: vunerable situations. They have sent a form for my daughter to fill out and then subject to their consideration they may refer the accounts back to the council or take further advice from the council.

 

In the form they want to about any illnesses / disability and her landlords name address and telephone number! They also want to know how much money she gets from benefits including DLA / employment etc. They want her to make an offer of payment that they may or may niot accept. Why do they want landlords name etc?

 

Should she really be filling this form out? I wouldn't but she wants to try and get this sorted out whereby she can pay what she can afford.

 

They also state that as they have already levied on items at the property (although these do not belong to my daughter or are her partners 'Tools of Trade') and that they can and will still take these items.

 

No response as yet from the council though still waiting on that.

[brassnecked]

Only a court can demand a I &E form to be filled in, and generally bailiffs and debt collectors, are not entitled to them, also DLA is specifically for help with a disability and is not "cleared and available funds" that a bailiff can suggest is used to pay them They should send it back to the council without prevarication and delay as she is clearly in the vulnerable category. If you want to provide the information to the bailiff it's your call.

 

"They also state that as they have already levied on items at the property (although these do not belong to my daughter or are her partners 'Tools of Trade') and that they can and will still take these items."

 

A stat dec will sort that out, as the levy and any resultant fee will be illegal, and if they were then to actually take goods it would be woeful for them.

 

others will be able to advise further

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Their compliance with the code is not conditional. It is not reliant on you providing a means statement; your claim is not one of 'poverty' but of vulnerability. The only thing you need to tell them is the nature of that vulnerability.

 

The rest is blackmail.

 

As for the goods they 'can' remove, the simple answer no they can't because a) It is not lawfull, and b) You are NOT going to let them in. End of.

 

Just fill in the disability / illness part and write N/A in the rest.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Thegreenpimpernel

[hallowitch]

Make a Freedom of information request to your council (this can be done on-line with most councils )

 

ask for a copy of there service level agreement between them and Bristow & sutor

[hallowitch]

this from South Oxfordshire District Council code of practice

1.1 In the case of Community Charges and Council Tax payers no attempt should be made to enter into walking possession or to remove goods without obtaining prior approval from South Oxfordshire District Council, if it is apparent that the debtor is:

(a) a pensioner

(b) a disabled person

© suffering long term or serious illness

(d) suffering from a recent bereavement

(e) a single parent family

(f) pregnant

(g) unable to understand English

(h) a benefit recipient

(i) unemployed

(j) blind or deaf

[RaeUK]

Hi dobie, can't add much more to what others have said. However, I recall we've established your daughter is in receipt of full DLA. I don't recall you mentioning any other benefits, in particular Job Seekers Allowance or Employment & Support Allowance. The reason I ask is that both of these benefits can have Council Tax arrears deducted by the Council. Round about £5pw equivalent iirc. So if your daughter is in receipt of JSA or ESA then also request that the Council takes the debt back for direct deduction from benefits ...

Rae

[dobiedogs]

Just an update. I fired off letters to the council involved as advised including copies of the councils code of conduct and a complaint to the council concerned. I also emailed the Bailiffs again and pretty much told them to back off and wait for the councils response quoting the Code of Enforcement.

 

On Friday my daughter received 2 letters in the post 1 from the bailiff dated 30th stating that if the debt was not paid in full by 6th April they were coming back to remove goods. This is even though they know about daughter's illness / disability (and now bereavement).

 

The 2nd letter was from the council dated 28th thanking us for the letters and stated that as they were now investigating the circumstances they had put the Bailiff action on hold. So Bailiffs would have known the council had put the hold on before they sent out their latest demand with menaces letter.

 

Daughter has made an offer to pay out of her benefits to the council, albeit only small amounts that they have not agreed to as yet, but to do that the council will have to recall the debt from the bailiff. It also stated that as there was a dispute over dates these would remain on hold until the investigation was complete.

 

Daughter feels a bit better and I have told that if the bailiffs do come back to show them the letter from the council, not to let them in etc. I have also copied the letter so bailiff can't take it .

 

So thank you everyone, not quite settled yet, but at least someone has finally started to listen at the council.

[brassnecked]

Just an update. I fired off letters to the council involved as advised including copies of the councils code of conduct and a complaint to the council concerned. I also emailed the Bailiffs again and pretty much told them to back off and wait for the councils response quoting the Code of Enforcement.

 

On Friday my daughter received 2 letters in the post 1 from the bailiff dated 30th stating that if the debt was not paid in full by 6th April they were coming back to remove goods. This is even though they know about daughter's illness / disability (and now bereavement).

 

The 2nd letter was from the council dated 28th thanking us for the letters and stated that as they were now investigating the circumstances they had put the Bailiff action on hold. So Bailiffs would have known the council had put the hold on before they sent out their latest demand with menaces letter.

 

Daughter has made an offer to pay out of her benefits to the council, albeit only small amounts that they have not agreed to as yet, but to do that the council will have to recall the debt from the bailiff. It also stated that as there was a dispute over dates these would remain on hold until the investigation was complete.

 

Daughter feels a bit better and I have told that if the bailiffs do come back to show them the letter from the council, not to let them in etc. I have also copied the letter so bailiff can't take it .

 

So thank you everyone, not quite settled yet, but at least someone has finally started to listen at the council.

 

If the bailiffs turn up send a Formal Complaint to the CEO of council, Complaints department clearly marked FORMAL COMPLAINT copied to Council leader, Councillor and MP, stating that as the council are vicariously liable both jointly and severally for the actions of the bailiff, who has called even though you had been told they were on hold pending investigation, you are now placing a formal complaint about the bailiffs continued harassment.

 

others will be able to advise further, but it is a typical bailiff tactic to feign ignorance of any order by a council for them to cease and desist, and continue action on their own initiative. Well they want their fees after all, that is paramount to a bailiff.

Edited April 5, 2011 by brassnecked

[RaeUK]

That's a start, dobie, any updates?

Rae

[dobiedogs]

Update:

Daughter has had another letter from the council stating that they are investigating her complaint, however their letter totally ignores what we have put in it including her offer to pay out of her benefits. They will have to recall the debt from the bailiffs to do this, which I think is the problem, but the tone of the letter is stroppy to say the least so hopefully we have rattled someone's cage.

 

Good news is the bailiffs haven't been back as they have threatened.

 

Will update again when I have further news

[RaeUK]

Hi dobie, thanks for posting again as it gave me the chance to - at least - re-read page one of the thread. Am I right in thinking your daughter is seriously disabled due to an RTA and yet is being hounded by bailiffs still and the council are being somewhat incalcitrant and dragging their heels? Have you written to both bailiff and council outlining your daughters vulnerable status as per the National Standards for Enforcement Agents? (I presume yes is the answer). If so, and things are looking yucky, have you written a Formal Complaint to the council CEO?

Rae

[brassnecked]

As per Rae, but copy the Council leader and local councillor into the complaint, and also contact your MP, as they will be interested in any wrongful action by councils especially if their party is in control of the council, and they are found to be harassing vulnerable debtors, in breach of national guidelines.

 

 

It may be worth posting the letter up minus identifying details, to pinpoint further advice and direction.

 

So long as there is an "attachable" benefit in payment there should be no obstacle to a recall beyond incompetence, and a desire to see that the bailiff gets their sometimes dodgy fees.

[dobiedogs]

Update:

Sorry it's been a few weeks since posted last. Latest news is that the council claimed to have replied but strangely enough my daughter didn't receive any letters, quick phone complaint and numerous emails to various CEO's at the council and lo an behold some more letters. The council claimed that they had told the bailiffs to go ahead as they had not received any replies. Daughter has done income & expenditure and has made a formal complaint about the bailiffs who called whilst daughter was out and told the babysitter that they were coming in and tried to force an entry, didn't get in though so bailiff told everyone who could hear what was going on who they were and why they were there.

 

Another complaint to B & S and council!

 

Council sent another stroppy letter stating that the offer of payment was not good enough and, I quote, added

" You claim that due to your disability and illness you state you want the debt recalled from the bailiff. I would be obliged if you would explain what it is about your disability and illness that make you vulnerable..........".

 

Hmmm, Serious Illness / use of crutches & wheelchair/ 24 hr care / that's why she has high rate DLA for both care & mobility

 

But they strongly advise that daughter makes payments "..to show good faith." They want the payments to go to the bailiffs, who won't take them because they want the whole amount!

 

Meanwhile bailiff turned up again and daughter answered door on her crutches (on heavy medication at time and loud banging on door) This time he tried to force entry and pushed the door forcing daughter backwards causing her to fall against the wall. Again he didn't get in as her hubby arrived. Daughter now under strict instructions not to answer the door to anyone.

 

Fired off another complaint to B& S reference National Standards for Enforcement Agents. They claimed that when made aware of vulnerable situation they did go back to council who ordered them to proceed, therefore they have adhered to the code. Then they claim what we said did not happen, there are no records of the bailiff calling, but under the Data Protection Act they are allowed to make inquiries of 3rd parties and the act does not allow for total privacy........

 

So I& E form sent back to council.

SAR applied for back in March

Formal complaint to Council now at stage 1.

3 Complaints sent to B&S

now awaiting further correspondence from council who may decide what she has got to pay!

 

So is there anything else we can do?

[Leakie]

Hi Dobiedogs

 

Just read through the thread,

Your poor daughter, Hope you get it sorted,

Is she OK

sounds like this needs to be reported to the police.

 

Leakie