Baliff Charges For Non Payment Of Business Rates Time Running Out PLEASE HELP

[kjh0711]

Hi. I hope someone can give me some help with baliffs charges. I have until the end of the week to pay.

I was visited by a Baliff on 1st Feb 2011. I had missed a couple of payments of business rates in December2010 after making an arrangement with the council in June 2010.

He told me he was there to seize goods. After discussion he said he would give me till the end of the month (feb). I now have the money to pay the bill but noticed his charges (although not as big as some ive seen) seems a bit high. He completed a walking possession.

It states. Outstanding debt £2400. First visit fee is blank. Second visit fee is blank. Levy fee £82. Walking possession blank. Other £200. Total £2682.00.

I had paid £300 the day before his visit, so the actual amount should be reduced by £300.

Can anyone tell me if the charges of £82 and £200 are justified. I only received the 1 visit.

Also, should i pay the baliff or pay the council online as i normally do with business rates?

Im worried that if i didnt pay the baliff charges and only paid the outstanding debt, that i may get a second visit. Time is against me. Please help. Thanks.

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?207889-The-Law-Bailiffs-fees-for-collecting-unpaid-Business-Rates

 

pay the council direct

 

dx

[fork-it]

The law prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid business rates is Regulation 3© of the Non-Domestic Rating (Collection and Enforcement) (Amendment and Miscellaneous Provision) Regulations 1993 and The Council Tax and Non-Domestic Rating (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2006, broadly speaking it provides

 

1st Visit £24.50

2nd Visit £18.00

Sum recovered up to £100 - £15.00

£100 to £400 - 4%

£400 to £1500 - 2.5%

£1500 to £8000 - 1%

£8000 and above Quarter of - 1%

 

The bailiff can charge "reasonable costs" for transporting goods, but if he fails to show a breakdown or sales invoices for the work done then its £0.00. If a bailiff charges for work he hasnt done then he commits an offence: More: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200607/ldhansrd/text/70420w0001.htm see under Crime Fraud

 

Pay the council direct. There is no law saying you have to trade with a bailiff.

[ploddertom]

It sounds as if he has charged a levy fee when he has visited which is correct - the £82. The other fee is almost certainly an enforcement/van fee which he is trying to charge at the same time - this is not allowed and must be challenged. The problem with the challenging it is it will probably incur another visit which will probably attract another charge.

 

You say you owed £2400 is this the sum confirmed by the Council for the Liability Order. If it is and you have paid £300 since you should now only owe £2100. I would ring the Council and confirm what details they have such as:

1 - how much the original Liability Order is for

2 - how much is still outstanding

3 - do they pay the Bailiff fees or are you responsible for paying that afterwards

 

Come back with an answer to those and we'll see which is the best way to proceed.

 

PT

[Thegreenpimpernel]

In this situation i usually recommend paying ALL that is asked for to halt any further visits, then claim it back.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems than on the WPO you have written proof of the visit, levy and 'van fee' on the same day, so should be straight forward.

 

I would also caution that unless you have the 'end of the month' as a due date in writing, that the bailiff may appear at any time in the next week.

In which case you will owe a van fee, because it will be your word against his re. the 'end of the month' agreement.

[kjh0711]

Hi. Thank you for replies. Council confirmed i owe them £2100 and i can pay online. But i should also pay baliff fees to the baliffs. Its a good point that there is nothing in writing about giving me till end of month.

To confirm, £2100 is the amount the council want, £82 is levy and £200 other is probably the van charge.

The baliff could turn up for a second visit if i dont pay their fees, so i think i had better pay up and try to get back.? Or should i pay them what i believe is a true cost in the hope that they have no grounds for a second visit based on their fees to date?

[ploddertom]

You can pay the Council direct for their £2100 but you must ensure they then confirm you owe £0, don't forget if paying by cheque or card the banking time it takes to clear. Also ensure you print off a receipt.

 

You can send the Bailiff a cheque for his levy charge only as that is all you are due to pay. As you have discharged your Liability in full as confirmed by the Council he cannot make any further enforcement for his fees alone but must instead take you to the Small Claims Court - very few do as they have to swear their fees were correct initially. The Bailiff should know he cannot charge a levy fee & enforcement/van fee at the same time.

 

PT

[wonkeydonkey]

duplicate post

Edited February 21, 2011 by wonkeydonkey

[wonkeydonkey]

1st Visit £24.50

2nd Visit £18.00

Sum recovered up to £100 - £15.00

£100 to £400 - 4%

£400 to £1500 - 2.5%

£1500 to £8000 - 1%

£8000 and above Quarter of - 1%

 

 

It may help if fork it used present fees

 

2.- (1) In head B of the Table to paragraph 1, "the relevant amount" with respect to a levy means;-

(a) where the sum due at the time of the levy does not exceed £100, £24.50;

(b) where the sum due at the time of the levy exceeds £100, 24.5% on the first £100 of the sum due,

4% on the next £400, 2.5% on the next £1,500, 1% on the next £8,000 and 0.25% on any additional sum;

and the sum due at any time for these purposes means so much of the amount in respect of which the

liability order concerned was made as is outstanding at the time.

[kjh0711]

Thats great. Thank you for swift reply. I will go ahead and pay the council £2100 online (receipt is emailed) and phone them tomorrow for a confirmation of no outstanding liability. I will post a cheque to baliffs, guaranteed next day, for the Levy Charge of £82. I guess i should mention why i am not sending payment for the £200 "other costs". Any ideas how i should word my letter to the baliffs when i send them a cheque. Thanks.

[kjh0711]

Just thought...The baliff said that he turned up in a van to take stock. He also said he had just visited someone else. I have no way of knowing as i am in the centre of a town. Infact, he wouldnt have legally been able to load and unload at the time he came, due to restrictions.. Couldnt he say that he has the costs of the van(even though im sure he hasnt). He acted as though he was being generous to me as he believed i was being honest with him, by letting me pay by the end of the month. thnx.

[hallowitch]

Just thought...The bailiff said that he turned up in a van to take stock. He also said he had just visited someone else. I have no way of knowing as i am in the centre of a town. Infarct, he wouldn't have legally been able to load and unload at the time he came, due to restrictions.. Couldn't he say that he has the costs of the van(even though I'm sure he hasn't). He acted as though he was being generous to me as he believed i was being honest with him, by letting me pay by the end of the month. thnx.

 

 

the bailiff is not there to remove goods on a first visit he is there to levy goods against your debt (hence the reason he cant charge a van/attendance fee) therefore it doesn't matter if he went to 50 addresses

 

you must put in your letter that you have satisfied the liability order direct to the council and you have enclosed a cheque for the levy fee of £xx this being the only fee that the bailiff can charge at this stage of enforcement according to The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 (amended) Regulation 45 Schedule 5 charges connected with distress and you now consider the account closed inform them to confirm in writing that the account is closed or provide an explanation for the charge listed as other on the notice of seizure and why they believe you are liable to pay this fee

send a copy to your council also

[ploddertom]

He can attend with a 44 ton articulated lorry if he wants but he may only charge fees in accordance with THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) REGULATIONS 1992 as amended. Doesn't matter if he's been to someone else or not & strangely enough there can be a dispensation from the Council for him to break any loading restrictions. Yes he has visited you just the once and he is there to levy distress on your goods, however he cannot at that same time charge you a 1st Visit Fee (as he levied distress), he may have made a levy (very remiss of me but I should have asked on what - can you do this now?). For some strange reason he has not asked you to sign a Walking Possession Agreement whereby he could have charged another £12.

 

Schedule 5 of the Regulations says that a levy must take place before an attendance fee may be charged - that is correct in your case. Case law in Culligan v Simkin & Marstons Group (2008) where the Judge analysed the process of making the levy concluded that there must be a gap between the two procedures and stated "to give the debtor a reasonable opportunity to pay what is due at the time of seizure".

 

Although the above was made in connection with road traffic enforcement it is reasonable also in Council Tax/NNDR cases. Incidentally did the Bailiff leave you a Notice of Seizure?

 

PT

[kjh0711]

There were 2 pieces of paper. 1 is headed NOTICE OF DISTRESS where he has written some of my goods/walking possession and the fees that i have mentioned. The other piece of paper is headed BALIFF REMOVAL, magistrates liability order/ distress warrant.( in BIG LETTERS) That says payment in full - 24 hours. Giving me the baliffs name and a mobile number. I cant believe someone with the power to take away goods can be so dishonest with their charges.

[ploddertom]

There were 2 pieces of paper. 1 is headed NOTICE OF DISTRESS where he has written some of my goods/walking possession and the fees that i have mentioned.

 

Can you list what Items he has listed or has he written something like "all goods to satisfy the debt"

 

PT

[fork-it]

It may help if fork it used present fees

 

I think this is up to date as we'll ever get. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/3395/regulation/2/made

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Just for the record.

 

They are normaly much harsher when collecting business rates, and i believe they can remove goods on the first visit if the debtor refuses payment or WPO / payment plan.

 

I would like to be proved wrong, then i can get my local authority to change their published bailiff policy which states that 50% of the NDR arrears must be paid or goods removed on first visit.

 

This has no bearing on the op's situation. i.e. they cannot charge the visit / levy / van 'combo' in one visit.

[kjh0711]

The Inventory states.... Large qty of stock inc bedding etc. casio till. 2 tables. all goods belonging to (me) unless exempt by statue. The baliff didnt believe their was enough stock to satisfy the debt. I sell gifts and homewares, so lots of small items. He didnt even fill out the reverse of the form. Its a bit of a rush job.

[kjh0711]

Baliffs will get cheque on Wednesday with letter that im about to draft, thanks to all your help. It does say on their form..."cheques accepted at our discretion". If they receive it on 23rd Feb (given that he gave me till end of month) it may not be cleared by that time. Could this be a problem? Can they use the fact that the Levy payment of £82 has not cleared.

[ploddertom]

Hold off sending your cheque, it seems as if he made a "global" levy which is not allowed. If that is the case then his only fee he can make is a 1st Visit Fee of £24-50!

 

PT

[ploddertom]

Is it possible you can scan a copy - both sides - so we can see what it has on it. Please remove all personal information though.

 

PT

[kjh0711]

Wow. Global levy? dont know what that is..

[kjh0711]

yeh sure. having a go now.Thanks.

[brassnecked]

Wow. Global levy? dont know what that is..

 

It's where a bailiff attempts to sieze all goods on the premises without listing them all, as in enters building lists things in one room only and also puts something like "all other property belonging to XXX " or all other assets on the premises" This is not allowed as in a domestic situation there are things he cannot take.

[kjh0711]