Unfair default notice by vodafone

[sirkay]

A default was registered against me which is unfair

This contract in question was from 21/03/08 to 23/09/09 (18 months) at the end of which i notified vodafone of my intention to cancel but was told i have to write a letter of cancellation and also allow 30 days which resulted in extra days OUTSIDE the contract...so after paying my last bill october 2009 i forgot all about vodafone and moved house.

I rang vodafone a little while later to check if my account was satisfied only to be told i have yet to balance £35 which i promptly paid over the phone.

 

I use to have excellent credit scores but after I've been refused credit cards and bank accounts i checked again and lo and behold a DEFAULT sat there staring at me...my score was in the poorest category.

 

Default registered on 03/04/10

Acct started on 22/1/07

 

To have my life and future ruined by £35 is rather unfair as i was a good vodafone customer and i sometimes pay £200 a month for going over my contract minutes without even complaining.

 

I've contacted vodafone over this default but they couldn't see that i ever had a default also the collections team couldn't find anything...pls what else can I do as i'm about to work in the financial sector and this is already scaring me!

[locutus]

Follow this advice

Hi

CAG

members,

 

We thought it would be nice to introduce ourselves and to assure you all that our presence on

CAG

is with the very best of intentions.

vodafone

UK has recently introduced a dedicated Web Relations Team which is keen to seek out customers who’re having difficulties with their accounts and feel that they have no other place to turn to than CAG and other consumer forums and blogs.

Naturally, it’s not possible for us to help directly with account specific queries on CAG and as such we would encourage those members who feel we can help them to contact us privately and securely using the ‘Contact us’ form on the Vodafone website with your account details.

https://help.vodafone.co.uk/system/s...PARTITION_ID=1

 

When emailing us we would also ask that you either provide us with a link to your post or thread – if you’ve posted in another member’s thread please also provide your CAG username so that we can check what your query is – and state the code WRT135 within the body of your email to make sure it comes through to us.As soon as we’ve received your email we’ll endeavour to get back to you as quickly as possible.

 

Many thanks

 

Web Relations Team

Vodafone UK

.

CAG members contacting us, add the code WRT135 in the subject line in order ensure that email gets routed into our queue.

 

The webteam have a good track record of sorting problems like this out.

[sirkay]

thanks locotus

I've mailed them and received an auto-response with reference #5794766

[locutus]

They'll be in touch soon then

[sirkay]

They'll be in touch soon then

thanks for your help:-)

[sirkay]

Received the following reply from vodafone this morning...they obviously don't want to investigate my query.

 

 

"Hi,

 

I appreciate why you are frustrated however I assure you the terms and conditions of your contract state that even after the commitment period the contract will continue on a rolling monthly basis until you give us your 30 days written notice.

 

As you did not give your written notice we legally could not cancel the contract, the outstanding amount is therefore correct and the default will stay on your credit file for 6 years.

 

If you have paid the outstanding amount then the default will show as satisfied though it will still be visible on your credit report.

 

If you have any proof of written notice being sent to us, either proof of an email or postage proof that you contacted us by letter at the end of your contract we can look into this further for you.

 

Thanks

 

Holly

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK"

[locutus]

Reply to them and ask if they now consider you to be at DEADLOCK. Do you have any proof of postage out of interest?

[sirkay]

Reply to them and ask if they now consider you to be at DEADLOCK. Do you have any proof of postage out of interest?

 

unfortunately i don't have any proof of postage...i'll reply as you said, should I SAR them if no progress?

[locutus]

If they say you have reached DEADLOCK you will be at a point where you can take the complaint further out of Vodafones hands, either the Alternative Dispute Resolution (Otelo) See here or small claims court. You need to decide which path you wish to take. Otelo is funded by the telecoms industry, and from what I've seen they do side a lot with the telecoms company, but they are free. Court obviously costs you money, but they have no connection with the mobile industry, so their impartiality cannot be called into question.

[silverfox1961]

I suspect that letter has come from the'normal' complaints team rather than the CAG/VF web team.

 

I know Lee has been off for a few days so when he comes back he could well see this

[waterminx]

Hi - am interested in the SAR question. Is it possible to SAR Vodafone? If you do have a complaint about the way they have behaved - which I have - big style - is it CETO or the OFT that the complaint goes to.?

 

thanks

wm

[2Grumpy]

Received the following reply from vodafone this morning...they obviously don't want to investigate my query.

 

 

I assure you the terms and conditions of your contract state that even after the commitment period the contract will continue on a rolling monthly basis until you give us your 30 days written notice.

 

As you did not give your written notice we legally could not cancel the contract, the outstanding amount is therefore correct and the default will stay on your credit file for 6 years.

 

 

What they actually mean is that they chose to ignore your notice of cancellation delivered verbally.

 

They can "legally" set up contracts over the phone so I'm sure that they can "legally" cancel them over the phone. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. Did they offer an email address to send it to - or a fax number? I suspect not.

 

Is the default on your credit reference proportionate to what has happened - essentially one of lack of communication? I don't think so.

 

You might find that it has no affect on obtaining credit. If it does, you could always consider taking the advice in the debt -> DCA forum for removing cra information - that is that the contract is now over & Vodaphone & their agents do not have the right to process your data for the the next 6 years.

[silverfox1961]

Hi - am interested in the SAR question. Is it possible to SAR Vodafone? If you do have a complaint about the way they have behaved - which I have - big style - is it CETO or the OFT that the complaint goes to.?

 

thanks

wm

 

I can't say I have heard of CETO. You can log a complaint with the OFT if you wish but the do not investigate individual complaints. They log each complaint and when it reaches a certain level they then investigate.

 

You can do a SAR but don't expect much back. I did and all they sent were was the account history-nothing else and they haven't responded to my return letter

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Received the following reply from vodafone this morning...they obviously don't want to investigate my query.

 

Hi sirkay,

 

As I've only just returned from annual leave I'm afraid I'm not familiar with your case.

 

However, as you've stated your email reference number in the thread I'll take a closer look at this and will get back to you as soon as possible.

Hi - am interested in the SAR question. Is it possible to SAR Vodafone? If you do have a complaint about the way they have behaved - which I have - big style - is it CETO or the OFT that the complaint goes to.?

 

thanks

wm

 

Hi waterminx,

 

It is possible to make a SAR request to us and I can see that you're currently experiencing some difficulties with us I'd like to see what I could do to assist you further.

 

As such, could you email the details of your airtime account together with the nature of your concerns by following the steps in our pinned thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?213340-Vodafone-Webteam-for-Customers-With-Problems?

 

Once you've sent it and received the automated reply could you then update the thread with your email reference number and I'll come back to you as quickly as I can?

 

Thanks,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[sirkay]

 

You might find that it has no affect on obtaining credit. If it does, you could always consider taking the advice in the debt -> DCA forum for removing cra information - that is that the contract is now over & Vodaphone & their agents do not have the right to process your data for the the next 6 years.

 

I was refused credit and that's why i checked my credit file and its perfect except for the default...i just hope Lee would be able to help now that he's back

[sirkay]

Hi sirkay,

 

As I've only just returned from annual leave I'm afraid I'm not familiar with your case.

 

However, as you've stated your email reference number in the thread I'll take a closer look at this and will get back to you as soon as possible.

 

Thanks,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

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thanks Lee

[2Grumpy]

I have read around here (Maybe in the Debt->credit reference agencies forum) that non-credit defaults less than £200 should not affect credit scores - so I am surprised by this

 

If this is the case then maybe you could argue that the affect of this default is disproportionate and should be removed

 

In any event this does sound disproportionate to what has happened.

 

Vodaphone seem to be heavy-handed with these defaults

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

I was refused credit and that's why i checked my credit file and its perfect except for the default...i just hope Lee would be able to help now that he's back

 

Hi sirkay,

 

Although I can never guarantee the outcome to any case which the team or I handle and can assure you that each one is dealt with on an individual basis.

 

As promised in my emails I'll come back to you again as soon as I have an update.

I have read around here (Maybe in the Debt->credit reference agencies forum) that non-credit defaults less than £200 should not affect credit scores - so I am surprised by this

 

If this is the case then maybe you could argue that the affect of this default is disproportionate and should be removed

 

In any event this does sound disproportionate to what has happened.

 

Vodaphone seem to be heavy-handed with these defaults

 

Hi 2Grumpy,

 

As I've commented before, the recording of a default against a customer's credit file isn't something which we take pleasure in doing.

 

However, there will always be those instances where this course of action becomes necessary after reasonable attempts to resolve an account which has fallen into arrears have been unsuccessful.

 

By the same token there will also be genuine cases which get caught up in the mix and of course it's these which we're keen to get sorted out.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

 

 

[pjryan]

Lee.

I think it's very useful and commendable that you / vodafone are taking time to monitor these complaints.

 

However a little more research does reveal Mobile Companies are in a very privelaged position over other Credit Companies in that they do not have to issue a notice of default.

 

This allows them to act far more quickly with no notice to the customer. From my own experience it seems Vodafone policy is to record a default against a customer within 3 months of a missed payment regardless of amount or circumstance. So for a £25 outstanding amount a customer will have their Credit File affected for 6 years. Having had outstanding balances with other mobile companies (usually their own billing errors) they just do not act as swiftly Vodafones policy is not doing them any favours.

 

I'm not just bashing Vodafone here - I happen to think their Customer Service is way ahead of others with a far more reliable mobile broadband product but something has to be done about an over zealous debt department that are very difficult to deal with. They are operating on the very edge of the law in my opinion.

[2Grumpy]

 

As I've commented before, the recording of a default against a customer's credit file isn't something which we take pleasure in doing.

 

However, there will always be those instances where this course of action becomes necessary after reasonable attempts to resolve an account which has fallen into arrears have been unsuccessful.

 

By the same token there will also be genuine cases which get caught up in the mix and of course it's these which we're keen to get sorted out.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

 

 

From what I see, Vodaphone are tending to default first & (maybe) resolve afterwards or decide that the default is valid when it certainly looks at least grey rather than black & white

 

And who is there to arbitrate on this - ... Vodaphone - or the courts with all the costs, delays & stress that entails

 

I'm not just aiming this at Vodaphone - all the mobile phone (& maybe energy) companies do this, although maybe not quite as quickly and with different levels of attempted communication first

Edited March 2, 2011 by 2Grumpy

[pjryan]

2Grumpy I have to agree.

 

While I appreciate Vodafone have been pro active on here that fact that they have issued a default in my case within 3 months of a missed payment and made it very difficult to pay suggest they are using a Customers Credit file as a way of enforcement - completely by passing any court process or any potential dispute over the amount etc.

 

Given that so many mobile phone customers are young and just starting out on the financial ladder they could find themselves frozen out of the credit market for 6 years for the smallest of balances. It would be unlikely any court would issue such a harsh punishment.

 

Central to this seems to be that Mobile Companies (and energy companies) do not have to issue a Notice of Default as Credit Companies are forced to do and it would appear anyway they have realised this loophole and starting to abuse it.

[silverfox1961]

If you received no notice of a debt owing and they defaulted you, I wouldn't bother using their own complaints procedure. I would just go to the Information Commissioner. Here is a quote direct from the horses mouth

 

However, where the amount owed is relatively small and the lender has not taken steps to inform the individual that there was still an outstanding amount owed (i.e. the individual is likely to have immediately paid the debt had they been made aware of it), it is arguable that the default is unfair, as it does not accurately reflect the individual’s credit worthiness.

[2Grumpy]

2Grumpy I have to agree.

 

While I appreciate Vodafone have been pro active on here that fact that they have issued a default in my case within 3 months of a missed payment and made it very difficult to pay suggest they are using a Customers Credit file as a way of enforcement - completely by passing any court process or any potential dispute over the amount etc.

 

Given that so many mobile phone customers are young and just starting out on the financial ladder they could find themselves frozen out of the credit market for 6 years for the smallest of balances. It would be unlikely any court would issue such a harsh punishment.

 

Central to this seems to be that Mobile Companies (and energy companies) do not have to issue a Notice of Default as Credit Companies are forced to do and it would appear anyway they have realised this loophole and starting to abuse it.

 

Time for a campaign?

[locutus]

If you received no notice of a debt owing and they defaulted you, I wouldn't bother using their own complaints procedure. I would just go to the Information Commissioner. Here is a quote direct from the horses mouth

However, where the amount owed is relatively small and the lender has not taken steps to inform the individual that there was still an outstanding amount owed (i.e. the individual is likely to have immediately paid the debt had they been made aware of it), it is arguable that the default is unfair, as it does not accurately reflect the individual’s credit worthiness.

This is not a loan tho, their is no "Lender". The real downside of mobile contracts is they are not credit, so the CCA does not apply. The information is not a "Formal Default" (Which is what all the rules and regulation apply to) but rather the payment history that shows the exact same payment history as a default, so effects the credit rating exactly the same.

[silverfox1961]

This is not a loan tho, their is no "Lender". The real downside of mobile contracts is they are not credit, so the CCA does not apply. The information is not a "Formal Default" (Which is what all the rules and regulation apply to) but rather the payment history that shows the exact same payment history as a default, so effects the credit rating exactly the same.

 

I agree with you but their response was to this question

 

One example is that of one person who cancelled his broadband account before moving house and then forgot to pay the final bill. No reminder was sent and the account defaulted with no notice received. When the customer checked his credit file after being turned down for a credit card, he found the default, contacted the broadband supplier and paid the bill in full. The supplier refused to remove the default.

Does the Information Commissioners Office give any guidelines on when a default is placed on Credit Reference Agency files. Shouldn't defaults be proportionate to the debt. I would have thought that 'fairness' would come into play. Penalising someone for 6 years for such a small debt is disproportionate to someone who has defaulted owing hundreds or thousands.

 

So you can see where I'm coming from