Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Household budgets have come under pressure as prices soared in the wake of the pandemic.View the full article
    • Please see my witness statement below.  Please let me know what modifications I need to apply.  I haven't included anything related to "administrative charge while paying by credit or debit card" as I wasn't sure if I should include since sign says "it may apply"   Background  1.1 Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of November 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.    Contract  2.1 No Locus Standi, I do not believe a contract exists with the landowner that gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” From PoFA (Protection of Freedoms Act) 2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-  (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or  (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44  For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.    Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed  3.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.  3.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.  3.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.  3.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.    Unfair PCN  4.1         As stipulated in Exhibit 1 (Pages 7-13) sent by DCB Legal following the defendant’s CPR request the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows £60.00 parking charge notice and will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue. The defendant puts it to the claimant a request for strict proof when the signage changed to show £100.00 parking charge as the evidence provided by DCB Legal stipulated £60.00 parking charge was indeed the parking charge at the time defendant parked and included in Exhibit 1   4.3        The Claimant did not respect PAPLOC   4.4        It is also unfair to delay litigation for so long and claim nearly four years' interest.    No Keeper Liability  5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.  5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.    5.3        The claimant did not mention parking period instead only mentioned time 20:25 which is not sufficient to qualify as a parking period.   Protection of Freedoms Act 2012  The notice must -  (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;      No Breach of Contract  6.1      No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY.  6.2        The wording “Electric Bay Abuse” is not listed on their signs nor there is any mention on the contract of any electric charging points at all let alone who can park there or use them.    Double Recovery  7.1        As well as the original £100 parking charge and £50 allowed court/legal costs, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  7.2        PoFA Schedule 4, paragraph 4(5) states that “the maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper is the amount specified in the notice to keeper”. Which in this case is £100.  7.3        The Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019 is also quite clear that the maximum amount recoverable is £100.  Government ministers and government web pages explaining the Act refer to extra charges as "a rip off".  7.4        Unless the Claimant can clearly demonstrate how these alleged additional costs have been incurred this would appear to be an attempt at double recovery.  7.5        Previous parking charge cases have found that the parking charge itself is at a level to include the costs of recovery i.e. Parking Eye Ltd vs Beavis (2015) UKSC 67 which is the authority for recovery of the parking charge itself and no more, since the sum £85 was held to already incorporate the costs of an automated private parking business model and the Supreme Court Judges held that a parking firm not in possession cannot plead any part of their case in damages. It is indisputable that an alleged “parking charge” penalty is a sum which the Supreme Court found is already inflated to more than comfortably cover all costs. The case provides a finding of fact by way of precedent, that the £85 (or up to a Trade Body ceiling of £100 depending on the parking firm) covers the costs of all the letters. Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court V Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practise continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (...) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6        In Claim numbers F0DP806M and F0DP201T, Britannia vs Crosby the courts went further in a landmark judgement in November 2019 which followed several parking charge claims being struck out in the area overseen by His Honour Judge Iain Hamilton-Douglas Hughes GC, the Designated Civil Judge for Dorset, Hampshire, Isle of Wight & Wiltshire. District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgement or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating “It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgement in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for a addi8onal sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998.  7.7        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.  7.8        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).  7.9        The Defendant is of the view that the Claimant knew, or should have known, that to claim in excess of £100 for a parking charge on private lands is disallowed under the CPRs, the Beavis case, the PoFA AND THE CRA 2015, and that relief from sanctions should be refused.    In Conclusion  8.1        I believe the Claimant has got use to intimidation tactics and has got greedy. I believe the truth of the manor is the Claimant has used bullying tactics successfully for too long and is therefore assured that innocent drivers will fall into the trap of paying rather than going through the hours it takes to defend themselves. In the process, wasting the time of the Court, the time of the Defendant and everyone else who has advised the Defendant, out of sheer decency to help have a fair hearing and see justice delivered.  8.2        I am still in disbelief that I am being heard in this court, defending myself nearly 4 years after receiving a charge through my door. I have had to spend weeks’ worth of my life studying the letter of the law in order to defend myself from this ridiculous attempt at a swindle.  8.3        I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. 
    • 'I thought why don’t we give it a try?' said student Swapnil Shrivastav, after inspiration struck during water rations.View the full article
    • honestly he/she just makes these ppc look so stupid everytime   fairplay lfi
    • Women share their stories of how they feel renting has held them back in life.View the full article
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

member services department


crispqueen
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 6421 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi all- I followed all the procedures and sent my LBA. I`m due to file my court claim on 14 September.

This morning I recieved a letter from Sarah Watson, it didn`t say the usual no, but said that my case is now being referred to the member services department for them to review under the complaints procedure. There was no mention of my LBA which I know they recieved. Is this normal or does anyone think they might offer a refund at this stage (before court action)?

Any views welcome.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hiya, not sure if they are useless at admin or useless at the detail, as they referred to my INITIAL letter dated 19th July, not my LBA dated 19th August! Therefore I assume that this letter (dated 7th Sept!!) was intended to reach me before I sent my LBA and subsequent claim 14 days thereafter. They really are quite c**p!

Link to post
Share on other sites

They are really c**p at Nationwide. I filed court papers on 18 August and they had until 7th Sept to file their reply. They either ignored it or missed the date, either way I win by default. Seems like one dept. don't know what the other is doing, they are really over whelmed by all the claims!

Claim from NATIONWIDE

Data Protection Act request for info - 17/6/06

Request for repayment of charges £2485 - 24/7/06

Letter Before Action - 2/8/06

Papers filed at court - 18/8/06

Judgement won 8/9/06

Refund given 30/9/06

Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks to all of you helping me out here! Like Lisa Daddy they didnt refer to my LBA but to the origional 11 Aug letter . I think youre right Geordieboy - they must be overwhelmed! I`m from Northern Ireland and there was a feature on our local news through the week from the consumer council telling everyone here to go for it and dont wait for the banks to change the rules. I`ve now contacted them and Im delighted to say they have a press department-thats what I was hoping for - so if it goes to court (or if it doesnt) I`d love to give a wee interview and make public how they took money off me from child benefit , wftc and created mortgage arrears!!!Their charges were to the value of my mortgage every month for months for a long time, when things were tough for us.It really does look like payback time!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi - got a letter this morning (on the 14th day after LBA) from Karon Winkler, with the usual `it may be an appropriate time for you to consider changing your account to another provider` bladeblagh. I`m going to file my claim on Monday when I have the court fees. I know its giving them more than 14 days , but its ok isnt it to wait till after the weekend? I read somewhere that it allows time for postage anyway! Let me know if I`m ok leaving it till Monday cos otherwise I`ll beg steal or borrow the money and do it tommorrow!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't even get a reply to my preliminary approach so suspect they may be drowing in paper work now - the postoffice website said that it'd been signed for!

 

Sent my LBA, waiting to see if I get a reply to that one instead! ;)

Barclays

Settled in full 13/09/06 after LBA (£115.00):D

 

Nationwide

LBA sent 13/09/06 - Response 04/10/06.

Moneyclaim submitted 04/10/06.

Won (settled in full) 19/10/06. (£748.00):D

 

Halifax

S.A.R sent 05/10/06.

Prelim sent 14/11/06.

LBA sent 28/11/06.

Offer rejection sent 30/11/06.

 

GE Capital

S.A.R sent 25/10/06 on behalf of sister.

Incomplete statements sent.

 

Barclaycard

Prelim letter sent 30/11/06

Barclaycard agree to pay difference between charges and 12 pound OFT charge suggestion. Accepted £64.00 06/12/06.

Link to post
Share on other sites

ok... tap tap tap... - decided to get it done cos I cant wait! Downloaded and printed off the court form, filled it in with the help of all these threads an lovely people. Printed off another 3 schedule of charges with the 8% interest added.

Had to split claim to under the £2k mark in northern Ireland.

This is what I end up with;

 

claim 9/11/00 to 17/5/06 £1.951.50

interest at 8% 321.95

court fee 62.00

total 2335.45

 

If this works I`ll do my 2nd claim form may 06 forward. That already adds up to £430.00

Any advice welcome...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, seems good to me. Good Luck. You can start another claim after they settle.

George Loveless - “We raise the watchword, liberty. We will, we will, we will be free!"

 

My advice is only my opinion, I am not a legal expert.

 

IF YOU LIKE THE ADVICE I'M GIVING AND ARE HAPPY WITH IT, CLICK THE SCALES ON THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THIS POST AND TELL ME.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am so excited. Went into town and experienced my first ever visit to a courthouse. Even if it was only to file a small claim! The staff at laganside Courts are lovely and explained the procedure of small claims for any questions I had. Here we go...PS does anyone know how to get rid of the thumb sign that I have no matter wher I post on the web?Bit premature isnt it?lol

Link to post
Share on other sites

you should have your money back within 2 to3 weeks :)

Data Protection Act sent to Nationwide 19/05/06.

Statements received 24/06/06 - Charged £1,954.50 :eek:

Prelim letter sent to Charles Bacon 27/06/06 :)

Cannot refund letter from Sarah Watson 07/07/06 :rolleyes:

L.B.A. sent to Charles Bacon 18/07/2006 ;)

Claim deemed filed 30/08/2006 8)

* REFUND TIME * 15/09/2006 :p

*£1945.50 + £443.37 interest + £62.00 Court fees*

** DONATION MADE **

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

BUMP Hiya well I lodged a claim at Belfast Laganside courthouse. Forms sent back to me to sign because being served in Swindon. Posted all that back recorded delivery again 28 sept - not recieved till 5 oct. (Query with Royal Mail but thats another story) Why have I not heared a dickie bird???Its now 14 Oct. Any opinions please post! Hope I`ve done this right...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hiya, another newbie here. I have started the process of trying to get back my charges from Nationwide. I have had 3 replies to the first 2 letters and countless emails, visits to branch etc. First one is the :- we are transparent about our charges blah blah, terms and conditions blah blah. Second one is :- your enquiry has been passed onto Branch Service Centre. Third one is from Member service. Stating once again that they are open and transparent about charges. Sorry that this has caused me concern but they cannot refund any charges. My claim was initially for £892 but with further charges it is now £1020.

 

I really don't know what to do now. It seems they are quite adamant that they are not going to refund any charges. I don't want to let it go but I am worried about what will happen next.

 

Any help or advice would be much appreciated :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't lose heart.

I've read enough of these to see that sometimes they will just plain lie to you until the actual court date arrives on their desk. Maybe you should try exploring the legal side of things more and have concrete facts in your next letter.

 

For example:

On a separate note, your charges appear to represent an unfair term of contract which is contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). My account falls within the ambit of Regulation 5 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 as I am a consumer. Your charges constitute an unfair penalty under reference to paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2 of the said regulations:

‘Indicative and non-exhaustive list of terms which may be regarded as unfair - 1. Terms which have the object of effect of - (e) requiring any consumer who fails his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation’.

 

 

OR

 

 

I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable at common law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79.

 

 

If you attack them with statements to which there is no arguing its bound to have an impact. Equally though expect them to try and bluff you all the way to court room. Think of how many people give up after they get a letter back telling them they're wrong. The banks know this, and is just another example of how those that run the banks are dishonest cheats.

It'd also be good to look into what the banks reply to all of this is. The most interesting I have found is the statement given by UK banks when asked to give evidence to the House of Commons Treasury Committee on how banks calculate bank charges. This was on the 25th of January 2005, and it shows the banks actually admitting that the charges applied to your account are not a reasonable pre-estimate of the bank’s loss in relation to your account - they are part of a scheme to recover global losses.

 

Anyway, I hope some of that can help, and don't give up!

Maverick

Link to post
Share on other sites

BUMP Hiya well I lodged a claim at Belfast Laganside courthouse. Forms sent back to me to sign because being served in Swindon. Posted all that back recorded delivery again 28 sept - not recieved till 5 oct. (Query with Royal Mail but thats another story) Why have I not heared a dickie bird???Its now 14 Oct. Any opinions please post! Hope I`ve done this right...
Now 17 oct!
Link to post
Share on other sites

It took mine 15 days from time claim was deemed filled.

there were no leters from them or the court. I take it you got

your copies of the claim back. Just keep checking the account.

Should have your money on about 20th -25th or there abouts.

Also check with the CPC as to when it was served.

Phone No. 028 90724566

Data Protection Act sent to Nationwide 19/05/06.

Statements received 24/06/06 - Charged £1,954.50 :eek:

Prelim letter sent to Charles Bacon 27/06/06 :)

Cannot refund letter from Sarah Watson 07/07/06 :rolleyes:

L.B.A. sent to Charles Bacon 18/07/2006 ;)

Claim deemed filed 30/08/2006 8)

* REFUND TIME * 15/09/2006 :p

*£1945.50 + £443.37 interest + £62.00 Court fees*

** DONATION MADE **

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Guinness - wondered why no-ne had written to me! If I have no claim number , just a receipt, wondered will the court still be able to give me the info?Just getting a bit impatient:confused: ,hopefully in time for the halloween holidays then!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Your best bet is to ring the CPC (Civil Process Centre).

Just give them your name and address etc. and they

should be able to help.

Data Protection Act sent to Nationwide 19/05/06.

Statements received 24/06/06 - Charged £1,954.50 :eek:

Prelim letter sent to Charles Bacon 27/06/06 :)

Cannot refund letter from Sarah Watson 07/07/06 :rolleyes:

L.B.A. sent to Charles Bacon 18/07/2006 ;)

Claim deemed filed 30/08/2006 8)

* REFUND TIME * 15/09/2006 :p

*£1945.50 + £443.37 interest + £62.00 Court fees*

** DONATION MADE **

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...