Help needed please - Council Tax Baliff charges for not visiting

[hallowitch]

not good enough you want the date each fee was added

 

send an e-mail back asking the date each fee was charged

[Wisingup]

hi there HW I will do that now, the thing I dont get is the Levy charge and the van fee? they never levied ever ever ever?

 

and as for a van fee???? what an insult, I am soooooooooooooo cross.

 

So, am I just replying stating that their response is unsatisfactory, and request a detailed breakdown i.e. comprehensive dates that each charge was applied?

[hallowitch]

So, am I just replying stating that their response is unsatisfactory, and request a detailed Breakdown i.e. comprehensive dates that each charge was applied?

 

yes and ask them to confirm the goods levied as at no time have you received a notice of distress (A requirement set out in legislation if goods are levied) tell them you want a final answer to this as you intend to take your complaint to the local government ombudsman if the reply you receive does not answer your questions send it to the head of revenues and the CEO

[Wisingup]

this was my response:

 

Dear Mr Head of Revenue

Further to your email, we are writing to inform you that we are far from satisfied with your response, not to mention our surprise that you refer in your reply to us our liability for 10/11 Council Tax, which has no reference at all with this complaint, why you see fit to refer to our 10/11 Council Tax escapes us, perhaps you could explain?

We would like to address the complaint in hand and the charges levied against our account from your Bailff's Equita. As requested in my initial letter and subsequent letter to Equita, and my email to Mr CEO (must we ask three times?), when that we require a full breakdown of the fees that have been applied, and indeed paid in relation to our Liability for 09/10 Council Tax. This INCLUDES the dates the fees were applied, this is not a limited request, as we are requesting a full breakdown. I note from your email to me that a Levy Charge has been applied, please confirm the goods levied as at no time have we received a Notice of Distress (A requirement set out in legislation if goods are levied). We would like a final answer to this otherwise we will have no alternative but to take the complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman.

With regards to your comment that Equita Bailiffs act within a Code of Conduct, whilst I have no doubt that a Code of Conduct exists and indeed have read this thoroughly, the actions of Mr XX XX in this instance step outside of this Code, it is not an unreasonable request to ask a person his name without verbal abuse? We will await the outcome of the investigation of Mr XX by a Senior Manager at Equita, before deciding on how to proceed.

On another note, it is fair and reasonable to expect to have to pay a handling charge to pay Equita, over the duration of this payment plan we have paid an extra £1 per payment?

I sent this by email, and copied Mr CEO in, all I can do now is wait. They could just ignore me altogether.

Hope I have this right.

Wisingup

[ploddertom]

I think you may receive an answer from Equita in the next day or so which will no doubt agree with that you have had from the Council, but should include the dates these visits and levy were made on. It would appear from the track of your Post that the levy may appear to have been made on the day you made your last payment - as this was done over the phone it may appear the Bailiff has an over active imagination. This could be one of the reasons the Bailiffs are being evasive about giving you the breakdown you have requested.

 

If you have done as Hallowitch suggests above by asking the Council for the dates and what was levied it will be interesting to see what comes back. In the meantime you will still have to wait another few days to see if you receive anything from the Bailiffs. In my opinion things are going in your favour as everyone appears to be dragging their heels in giving you the legitimate information you ask for.

 

PT

[Wisingup]

Hi there PT, we tried to make the payment on 4th Jan, but Equita office refused to take it as it had been passed to MR X, who was very difficult to contact. When we eventually contacted him on 4th Jan he said that he had not received the paperwork from the office and to call him tomorrow (being 5th Jan) and he will be able to sort it out then, my husband tried for hours and hours to contact him and it was late in the afternoon before hubby managed to speak to him, as soon as hubby asked for a breakdown of the charges he became agressive.....the rest you guys already know.

 

I posted my email to Birmingham City Council see post 56

 

Wisingup

Edited February 2, 2011 by Wisingup

[ploddertom]

I think you should hang on until Thursday and if no responses received think it will be time to start to escalate the matter, they will have had more than sufficient time by then.

 

PT

[Wisingup]

who would I escalate it to? I dont think they will be backing down, do I contact the local press?

[Wisingup]

update and stop press!! had a letter in the door from Equita last night (sent 1st class) please see excerpt from letter received!

 

Dear Mr & Mrs XX

 

I have been passed an extract of your email sent to our client and have been asked to respond.

 

Having referred to our case files I can confirm that following a default of your arrangement our enforcement office was assigned with the instruction to collect the balance or seize goods. It is noted that after Mr XX (bailiff) allocation you were repeatedly referred by our call centre staff when contacting us, this is the correct procedure.

 

Whilst I note that you claim that Mr XX (bailff) has not visited your property, I can confirm that we do have reference that a vehicle has been levied, which was locted at the address by the bailiff. The details of the car are: xxxxxxxxxx. (this was easy to obtain as he pulled up outside our house at 6.50am on the morning of 6 Jan - we saw him outside and when he realised we had seen him he drove away at speed - I posted this earlier on in my thread Post 9). This substantiates that a visit has occured (yeah right - after we were fleeced - he has to post a Notice of Distress to levy and he DIDNT) and the fees that have been applied in conjunction. A breakdown has been detailed below for you:

 

Debt £806.73

Stat Visit Fees £42.50

Levy Fee £38.00

Attendance charge £130.00

 

Total £1017.23

 

Notwithstanding the above it is always our intention to bring cases to an amicable and satisfactory conclusion, therefore I have arranged as a goodwill gesture for you to be refunded £130 attendance charge. This will be recredited to the card used in the transaction of the 5 Jan within the course of the next 14 days.

 

I can confirm that the arrears are confirmed in full and the liability order has been returned to the council marked successful.

 

Please be advised that your prior request for a thorough reference of case information does fall within the parameters of a SAR and as such requires the necessary fee, although I can confirm that Mr XX (bailff) obtained his Gerneral Bailiff Certificate at the BCC, it is due for renewal xxth Sept 2011.

 

So folks what to we make of that? What concerns me is the difference in the charges according to both Equita and the Head of revenues of BCC?

 

Some advice would be gratefully appreciated. I was tempted to add my real thoughts as I was retyping this letter but thought I would hold off until someone gave their thoughts and opinions, I have made a couple of comments in red above as I am feeling annoyed about this.

 

Wisingup

Edited February 2, 2011 by Wisingup
extra bit of info

[hallowitch]

Please be advised that your prior request for a thorough reference of case information does fall within the parameters of a SAR and as such requires the necessary fee,

National Standards for Enforcement Agents

 

May 2002

 

Enforcement agents will on each and every occasion when a visit is made to a debtor's property which incurs a fee for the debtor, leave a notice detailing the fees charged to date, including the one for that visit, and the fees which will be incurred if further action becomes necessary. If a written request is made an itemised account of fees will be provided.

 

personally i wound send a copy of this to the leader of the council your MP , all local councillors .trading standards. THE information commissioner office they are obliged to send this breakdown when requested

ask your Head of who he is employed by you may find out that his employers are Capita who just happen to own Equita bailiffs

[Wisingup]

my concern here is that there are inconsistencies between what BCC think are the charges and that which have ben applied by Equita.

 

there are still no dates!

 

btw when I wrote to Equita and cc BCC I enclose a copy of the highlighted standards - see it did no good

[hallowitch]

send them another e-mail informing them that the information received is still not good enough you require date of each charge inform them that this is the 3rd4th time you have requested this information and if you do not receive a satisfactory reply you will take your complaint to the Local government ombudsman as you feel both BCC and Equita are being obstructive

 

sent to council and Equita

 

defiantly get your MP involved if they have nothing to hide they should have no problem giving you this information

[Wisingup]

what do you think about their offer of goodwill?

[ploddertom]

They need to refund more than the £130 quoted, the Levy Fee needs to be quashed and from memory I believe you said you were also charged for paying by debit/credit card, you need to ask them where in the Regulations it allows for a "Card" charge! You are definitely on the right track.

 

PT

[Wisingup]

hi there, in my email to the Head of revenues I asked that exact question, and I have had no reply.

 

can you tell me how a levy notice works please? also i thought that they were not able to hold onto bank card details? Mr XX (baiiff) told my husband that his bank details would be shredded clearly they havent been? nor have we received a receipt for the money we paid?

 

whats my next step?

Edited February 2, 2011 by Wisingup

[ploddertom]

If a Bailiff attends and levies/seizes goods he MUST provide you with a Notice of seizure (in this case I believe it is a Form 7), on this Notice he must describe what goods he has levied/seized - in the case of a motor vehicle it should be Reg No, Make & model & Colour as an absolute minimum - he should also list on the other side of the Form the costs associated with the levy and fees to date. On completion he must either hand you a copy or if no one is present - usually in the case of goods seized outdoors - post it through your door. It is no good them coming back at a later date and producing it.

 

A lot of Bailiffs these days cruise the streets looking for vehicles that their "victims" have parked outside their homes and note the Reg No, they then say they have levied on the said vehicle. This is a definite no no and is not allowed. The Bailiff is allowed to assume that anything within the immediate vicinity of your home is yours, this is usually how your neighbours car may be levied upon, in this situation you should read the sticky by Tomtubby about this at the top of the page.

 

If they have held on to your Bank Card details then they are seriously out of order as this cause all sorts of Data Protection issues not to mention fraudulent activities. With what has happened to you so far you should start to put everything down in a concise manner according to when it happened and what and submit it as Formal Complaint to the CEO of the Council, marked as such it cannot be fobbed off by the Head of Revenues as your next recourse is the Local Government Ombudsman. I'm not too good at letters unfortunately but I know someone who is, yet again I know they are tied to something else for the next couple of weeks.

 

PT

[Wisingup]

what are your thoughts on the inconsistencies between what the council think are charges and those appled by Equita?

[ploddertom]

Sorry to be flippant but it sounds as if someone needs new batteries for their hearing aid.

 

Seriously I'd take more store of what the Bailiffs have said in this case. Your Council appear to have a serious attack of Bailiffness, don't understand what they have been sent & more importantly don't care. I'm tempted to say submit a FOI request for the Councils Code of Conduct appertaining to Bailiffs, their SLA with the Bailiffs, how often they check their Bailiffs charges, complaints & I'm sure there is a multitude of other questions that could be put to them. I wrote a load on another thread a while ago I'll see if I can find it.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

Found it.

 

However one way forward is to put a FOI - Freedom of Information - request in. They then do have to answer to that. You may be able to find information as to who it goes to or a specific email address from the Council website. There is nothing to stop you formulating a list of questions such as:

Does the Council have a bailiff Code of Conduct in place and if so what is it

Does the Council have a service level Ageement with the bailff and if so what is it

How many Liability orders did the Councilobtain in 2007 - 08, 2008 - 09, 2009 - 10, 2010 - 11

How much does each Liability Order cost the Council

How much does the Council charge its "customers" for a Liability Order

Do the Council check before issuing the account to the bailiff to see if the "customer" may be included in the "vulnerable" category as defined by the National Standards for Enforcement Agents - if not why not as a lot could be cross referenced through other agencies/benefits

Are Council employees trained in the correct procedures of the lawful fees that bailiffs may apply - if not why not

Do the Council check regularly to make sure their appointed Bailiffs are carrying out their duties correctly - if not why not

Do the Council have a Complaints procedure in place for those "customer" who have a grievance over the Bailiffs actions other than referring them to the Bailiff Company

etc etc

 

PT

 

Maybe everyone should do this to their own Council and see what comes back

[Wisingup]

sorry - I just taking it all in ready to fire off an email in the morning.

 

I just refuse to roll over, you been very helpful so far, just want to get everything right and concise as per your advicee so they dont get us on the backfoot.

I certainly think that an FIO request would indictate that I not a fool happy to be pushed around and grateful for the fact they are showig us goodwill. what is beyond me is how the council can distance themselves so easily?

 

I have thy day off tomorrow so this will be my first job of the day - cheers PT

[night-watchman]

Sorry had to chuckle at the "Goodwill Gesture" of refunding you £130 attendance charge. what they really mean is "Damn we have been rumbled let's give him some money back to keep his mouth shut"

Don't be misled that gesture will turn into a stab in the back.

[Wisingup]

so are you saying that to pursue this is pointless and that I should just acccept the £130 be grateful and walk away?

[ploddertom]

If it were me I would argue the rest you are owed such as the levy fee & card fee.

 

PT

[hallowitch]

If it were me I would argue the rest you are owed such as the levy fee & card fee.

 

PT

 

 

 

I would to the fact that Equita wont supply a breakdown says it all

 

time to step it up a notch i suggest you send a FORMAL COMPLAINT to [email protected] Leader of the Council informing him that Both Equita and BCC have been asked 3/4 times in writing for a breakdown of there fees they have not replied to your request to supply a true account to include dates /times of bailiffs visit payment fees charged and a copy of the goods levied ask him for a Full and FINAL reply as to why BBC and Equita are reluctant to furnish you with this information despite many letters/e-mail regarding this matter as you now intend to take this to the local government ombudsman if you do not receive the information request within 7 days

http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satellite?c=Page&childpagename=Member-Services%2FPageLayout&cid=1223092734034&pagename=BCC%2FCommon%2FWrapper%2FWrapper

Edited February 4, 2011 by hallowitch

[night-watchman]

so are you saying that to pursue this is pointless and that I should just acccept the £130 be grateful and walk away?

 

Cetainly not, push it all the way, it just amuses me that they get real nice when someone takes them on. You have a valid grievance.