Received Court Papers From HFO. Is My Defence Okay?

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Info for HFO Services at companies House

 

Name & Registered Office:

HFO SERVICES LIMITED

KINGS PARADE

LOWER COOMBE STREET

CROYDON

SURREY

CR0 1AA

Company No. 05120067

 

 

 

Status: Active

Date of Incorporation: 05/05/2004

 

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

Company Type: Private Limited Company

Nature of Business (SIC(03)):

7487 - Other business activities

Accounting Reference Date: 31/12

Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2009 (FULL)

Next Accounts Due: 30/09/2011

Last Return Made Up To: 05/05/2010

Next Return Due: 02/06/2011

Last Members List: 05/05/2010

Previous Names:Date of changePrevious Name

16/07/2004HFO SERVICES LIMITED

03/08/2004ROXBURGHE (UK) LIMITED

[witpig]

For your information just to add to what CD said earlier about it's impossible for HFO (Caymen) to own the debt. The reason for this being is the existance of a document between HFO services and HFO Capital (caymen) called CP2. This document basically says that all accounts past, present and future bought by HFOC (caymen) are automatically reassigned straight to HFO Services, without exception. So it is impossible for HFOC to have owned this for more than a split second. This agreement runs from Jan 06 to jan 11.

 

This document CP2 has been used in court by HFOS themselves so it is in the public domain.

 

So if they are claiming it was sold to HFOC it could not be Dublin in that time period. If it was HFOC caymen then they owned it for a split second before assigning it to HFOS.

 

OK I think I'm starting to get it. I've looked through Companies House and agree I cannot find HFO Capital at all, but I can find HFO Services. Does anyone have a link to this letter that says all debts purchased by HFO Capital are transferred to HFO Services?

 

EDIT - I have (finally) managed to figure out how to scan the ICO for information and have found HFO Capital, both listings (thanks arrow). I have a warm feeling that perhaps my defence can also rest upon the assumption that any company not registered with Companies House cannot pursue a debt.

 

Basically it all seems to rest upon this notice of assignment that they claim to have sent but actually didn't?

 

So what is to stop them from fabricating one and saying "Golly gosh! We sent this years ago!"

Edited December 16, 2010 by witpig

[dadofholly]

So what is to stop them from fabricating one and saying "Golly gosh! We sent this years ago!"

 

The offence of perverting the course of justice should stop them but it doesn't.

[DonkeyB]

That is exactly what they do. As proven by one NoA I’m looking at right now – supposedly sent by Barclaycard to a Cagger, dated August 2007, stating that Barclaycard had sold his account to HFO Capital based in Dublin.

 

How clever of Barclaycard to do that. HFO Capital based in Dublin did not exist until December 2007.

 

Whoops! A false document entered into court as true with a statement of truth! Wonder how they’ll explain that to the judge...

[broken arrow]

That is exactly what they do. As proven by one NoA I’m looking at right now – supposedly sent by Barclaycard to a Cagger, dated August 2007, stating that Barclaycard had sold his account to HFO Capital based in Dublin.

 

How clever of Barclaycard to do that. HFO Capital based in Dublin did not exist until December 2007.

 

Whoops! A false document entered into court as true with a statement of truth! Wonder how they’ll explain that to the judge...

Must have been sold to Salaka then....

[witpig]

Hmm... Well it would seem my only defence to their fabrication would be a copy of, or some kind of declaration from, Barclaycard stating that they sold the debt on to HFO at such and such a time. Bearing in mind a SAR request can take 40 days (and I bet some sh**y god has declared it must be working days) I'm not really going to have time to be able to say that HFO Capital is not legally able to enforce the debt.

 

So again it seems I have come full circle and am hoping that my defence lies upon the fact that they are not able to produce an original copy of the CCA in court.

 

Any thoughts?

[broken arrow]

Hmm... Well it would seem my only defence to their fabrication would be a copy of, or some kind of declaration from, Barclaycard stating that they sold the debt on to HFO at such and such a time. Bearing in mind a SAR request can take 40 days (and I bet some sh**y god has declared it must be working days) I'm not really going to have time to be able to say that HFO Capital is not legally able to enforce the debt.

 

So again it seems I have come full circle and am hoping that my defence lies upon the fact that they are not able to produce an original copy of the CCA in court.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I have sent you a PM.

[broken arrow]

should be sorted now.

[dadofholly]

Hmm... Well it would seem my only defence to their fabrication would be a copy of, or some kind of declaration from, Barclaycard stating that they sold the debt on to HFO at such and such a time. Bearing in mind a SAR request can take 40 days (and I bet some sh**y god has declared it must be working days) I'm not really going to have time to be able to say that HFO Capital is not legally able to enforce the debt.

 

So again it seems I have come full circle and am hoping that my defence lies upon the fact that they are not able to produce an original copy of the CCA in court.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Its 40 Calender days - but get the SAR in as soon as you can.

[coledog]

Yes - worth sending the SAR, if we get rid of this split claim rubbish they may come back at you so yo need all the info you can.

[witpig]

I had a nap for ten minutes and now it's 10 hours later... Yep got the message thanks BA, am working on it now cheers

[dadofholly]

When sending the SAR to Barclaycard make sure it includes a request for the Notice of Assignment.

 

Be intersting to see what comes up.

[witpig]

When sending the SAR to Barclaycard make sure it includes a request for the Notice of Assignment.

 

Be intersting to see what comes up.

 

Yeah I agree - I pretty much put a request for everything in! It will be interesting to see if any of it matches up (not that HFO have provided me with anything to compare it to!)

[witpig]

Ok, well have heard nothing back from Turnbully or anyone else (not that I was expecting to) so am sending off my embarassed defence (many thanks BA and coledog!)

I am wondering what people who don't have access to a solicitor or the CAG site put in the defence box on the court form? The defence I have copied and edited for my own use looks very prim and proper but I'm wondering if that will just p**s the judge off? Having read some of the other threads it looks like it can be a bit of a gamble as to whether you end up with some prig who thinks that mere members of the public shouldn't be allowed near a legal dictionary?

 

Might it be an idea to condense the defence down into my own words, a couple of sentences to fit into their box? The info will still be there, just easier to read!

[sillygirl1]

Yes, if you can put it in your own words it does sometimes look better. I keep defences short and simple, particularly the ones I've done lately for payday loan companies, just stating the facts is sometimes enough defence to cast doubt on the validity of the particulars of claim, ie parent company claiming on behalf of subsidiary.... in HFO's case HFO Capital claiming instead of HFO Services.

[coledog]

Maybe worth posting up what you are going to say so that others can look at it?

[witpig]

Thanks for the reply! I must admit I'm re-reading my defence and whilst everything is there, and someone has obviously put real effort into it for which I am grateful, I'm thinking that if it comes to an actual court date I'm not going to be able to back it up with anything in person. I'll just be sitting there wailing "But it's not fair! They didn't reply to my letters!" Especially after reading a thread by VJ who said that in his hearing the solicitor appointed by HFO basically made stuff up.

 

At least if I look like an amateur from the start (even if a well-informed one) there won't be any onus on me to defend myself in solicitor-speak.

[AndyOrch]

So draft it in the words you are at ease with Witpig.No brownie points in this game for looking legalise.I would further contend that if push comes to shove you may have to explain your pleadings.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[witpig]

Maybe worth posting up what you are going to say so that others can look at it?

 

I just tried PMing you but apparently you are popular and have a full inbox! The message I was going to send isn't really that confidential so I shall post it here:

 

Hi! I didn't want to post up my defence as it was sent by ** and I didn't want their hard work to be made public when it was sent privately. For myself I'm not worried if HFO are watching as my defence is my defence whether they see it today or next week, but I did promise to ** that any emails would be kept confidential, do you know if ** came up with the defence by themselves or copied it from a public source?

[DonkeyB]

Depending on where you are, you could try and find a court buddy.

 

See here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/buddy.php

 

This link is so hard to find – mods, why is it not in the main menus???

[witpig]

Depending on where you are, you could try and find a court buddy.

 

See here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/buddy.php

 

This link is so hard to find – mods, why is it not in the main menus???

 

That's a great idea thanks, and if I hadn't already found someone to provide support that link would have proved invaluable. I agree that such a useful resource should be far more accessible.

[broken arrow]

I just tried PMing you but apparently you are popular and have a full inbox! The message I was going to send isn't really that confidential so I shall post it here:

 

Hi! I didn't want to post up my defence as it was sent by ** and I didn't want their hard work to be made public when it was sent privately. For myself I'm not worried if HFO are watching as my defence is my defence whether they see it today or next week, but I did promise to ** that any emails would be kept confidential, do you know if ** came up with the defence by themselves or copied it from a public source?

 

The Defence is one I modified from another very learned CAGger, to fit a situation for another CAGger, which was a part claim and the claimants POC were very poor and difficult to plead against, the defence has been used by 2 people which have resulted in a stay, the claimant failed to respond to the defence after 28 days.

 

Now there is no guarantee this would be the case with you and what happens then you go to the allocation questioniare and you will be able to put further arguments in a witness statement, but we will cover that, if it happens.

 

So back to the defence, the important thing is the defence denies the claim and as every claim is different, you would have to modify anyhow.

 

If you are happy with posting up your defence thats OK, if not it can be checked over in private.

 

My big concern is missing the deadline and no defence being submitted.

 

PS HFO do read the threads.......

[witpig]

Have sent you a PM

[sillygirl1]

There is a guest on today I notice.... hello whoever they are.

 

Defences can be templated but need to be amended to suit the particulars of the case and where you are with relevant documentation,

 

I am beginning to think that we should state that documentation was requested and refused BEFORE it got to the court stage and therefore we are NOT minded to give them time to seek the documents as they should have the documents when they made the claim... therefore as their claim does not have a legal basis it should be struck out and resubmitted with revised particulars when they have the documents. Having the original claim struck out rather than stayed might make them think twice before 'chancing their arm'.

 

What do others think of this approach.

[AndyOrch]

Absolutely SG