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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Sorry to hear this angel.

 

If it's cc or loan charges they can be claimed, but there hasn't been a successful claim for bank charges since the supreme court judgment in 2009.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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hiya Cadbury

 

many thanks for your help and info, so yes will make the offer, and if they do not accept is it then i do the n244 request to the court for the judge to decide the amount, would that be before they go for the charging order? and i guess need to do this sharply wont I?

 

and yes ive read up a bit on charging orders, understand like you have said, so it just sits there until you clear the debt or if you sell the house then the remaining amount is paid?

 

have i understood that right, ?

 

cheers angel x

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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hiya caro

 

yes its a cc debt , thus if you say i can claim those charges and poss interest maybe??

 

should i first make my offer of payment?

 

then do a seperate request for the cc charges and poss interest amount?

 

does it make any difference the ccj is in place now or can i do the claim for the cc charges as a seperate issue?

 

just want to process this in the swifest manner and right way please

 

like cadbury has highlighted too, guess the offer is first

 

cheers angel x

 

REFLECTION - this afternoon i m thinking more of sending in a n245 with my income and expenditure form for the court to let creditor know and if it is rejected then for the court to ascertain the amount on a monthly basis of what i can afford. this may be more beneficial for me then waiting on a charging order claim from them even if i offer them something in writing which they may or may not accept, as its a forthwith ccj my gut feeling is to get an installment agreed legally by the court not by me waiting on the creditor to agree or disagree with me

 

i hope you think im thinking straight, but feel free to let me know if im doing it backwards and not in my best interests this way cheers angel x

Edited by angel_1

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Hi Angel

In our case, it was my oh,s debt, and Ccj was issued forthwith. A Interim C/o was also issued.

I replied for a redirmination, and had the hearing at the same time as the C/O defense.

I armed myself with a I & e, bank statements, Wage Slips etc. The judge didn't even look at these but ordered a amount We asked for, then granted the C/O.

It's up to you Angel, but I would immediatly apply for a definitive amount to be ordered,by the court.This will not neccessarly avoid a C/o but will set the payments.

In the case of Charging Orders, were only 1 person is the debtor and the House is in joint names the C/O can only be registered as a restriction, which IMO only means you need to notify the creditor upon sale of your property.

See "'charging order the myth" on Money Saving Expert or Google.Lots of debate on this, so many disagree.

Won't Know definetly untill I sell my house.

In summary I would get the CCJ changed from forthwith to an installment order,

and don't worry to much if they go for a C/O.

In theory C/O can be made into "Orders for Sale" however

these are as rare as Hens Teeth.

All the Best

Cadbury

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Angel

 

Just catching up. I agree it's probably best to get Court involved re monthly amount to be paid - hopefully based totally on your own I&E only. THEN, when this is in place and can't be changed by the Creditor, put in your claim for refund of ALL charges and contractual interest charged on them. It will not get you a refund but WILL reduce the amount owed - and thus the length of time you need to pay them.

 

AS everyone seems to be saying - Don't worry about charging order. They may well not apply for this if the monthly amounts are being paid regularly, and even if they do, it's pretty toothless unless/until you sell up - and even then, if only a small% of the equity released, it's probably got minimum impact on your future plans/capabilities.

 

Good luck!

 

BD

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hello Cadbury and Bigdebtor

 

you have both confirmed my thoughts and eased my worries, thank you so much, and yes the charging order will only be a restriction i got that from national debtline when i rang them before xmas, so whilst i understood it - i feel i can now relate to it more from your own experiences, so yes, i guess its just a security for the funds excercise from the creditor,,,

 

i will let you know when i hear from the court if its accepted or if i have to attend an hearing,

 

again thanks to everyone who has given me my dignity back with your huge help and including everyone who has responded to me on this particular worry - may i be in a position one day to help you all in a different way and next pay day will be sending in another donation to the site

 

have a fun day will catch up with you all over the weekend, and yes i will work out the charges, albeit i dont think it s a huge amount but even a couple of hundred is better then nothing and that would be to this creditor who holds the ccj? and not the original creditor?

 

cheers angel x

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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You need to claim the charges back from the original creditor and tell them you want it in the form of a cheque or payment into your bank account if that's what you want.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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You need to claim the charges back from the original creditor and tell them you want it in the form of a cheque or payment into your bank account if that's what you want.

 

hiya caro, i see and thats after ive got the payment amount in place with the ccj creditor>?

 

cheers angel x

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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I see no reason to delay claiming back the charges.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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cheers caro

 

angel have a fab day all

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Caro

 

I don't agree. I think Angel should get the monthly payment agreed BEFORE reclaiming charges (to avoid alienating the other party so they become intransigent) - UNLESS the total to be reclaimed is a significant portion of the current balance - which may substantially reduce how much the monthly payment should be.

 

I do agree she should ask for this refund by cheque or bank transfer - i.e. not just used to reduce the balance - but I don't think it's that unreasonable for this amount to just go to reduce the balance - if that is what the refiunder insists on.

 

BD

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I see your point BD. I wouldn't bust a gut over it either way.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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thank you bigdebtor and caro

 

charges refund looking at the figures will not dramatically reduce the amount due but will do just to reduce it by the figure nevertheless ,

thanks again for your points of view highly appreciated as always

 

cheers angel x

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Don't forget the interest on the charges at the contractual rate angel. That can make quite a difference.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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yes caro thank you

 

i know there is a thread ive saved sometime ago about calculcating it all, but if there is a simple one that even i can understand would appreciate a link - LOL my brain is sore at the moment cheers angel x

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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See how you get on with this Angel.:-)

interestcalcs.xls

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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tha you caro for the link appreciated

 

also everyone

my update on this sorry state of affairs,

 

is that i went to cab and they helped with my budget sheet properly as id panicked at the court case my budget to pay this debt was not done correctly by me as id missed off stuff,

 

the amount is low which in reflection is what is really left over once ive paid for things i do need, car for my job, bills and food expenses,

 

i understand from cab and the court when i handed in my form that this would go to the creditor and they had a couple of weeks, if they dont accept then it goes back to my local court for a court official to look at it and decide if its appropriate and rubber stamp it,

 

i really do hope they do at least for a few months i would have peace of mind and then i can get my friend to clear it as fast as poss

- just a shame i have the ccj for the next 6 yrs even though i could eventually i hope get it showing satisfied

 

what i nightmare hope others learn from this experience of mine and also have stopped the bailiffs coming to the house until the decision is made

 

- will work on the charges back this weekend and will update you if i hear anythings on this situation cheers for your help and not forgotten about a money donation angel x

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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