CT Summons illegal?

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Mmm, when you look at the main board it says you last posted at 0016, and couple of times before that but when I come to look I can't see your post.

[understanding]

Hmm, seems I can type till the cows come home but am unable to see the posts.

[understanding]

timed out??? anyone see this message?

[understanding]

ooh I can see my posts

 

Well this morning I am editing the S.A.R. slightly, I hope it is worded correctly and also the request for breakdown of costs, which should give me a week to prepare for the court summons. I shall also post a registered letter to the council with my legal request for breakdown of costs for the charges brought onto the summons.

 

I shall also read up the info you kindly provided, Cartaphilus and certainly the ombudsman will be a step in this action I intend to take against the council.

 

Today I shall be searching through ten years of files and phone receipts to check the dates I phoned the council tax offices so shall look in here when I can.

 

Hope someone can advise me on this situation.

[Nobnob]

If you are querying the charge then they should put a hold on your account to prevent recovery action whilst the query is in place. This is why I think it's really important to go down there with full details and copies of everything you have, and ask to speak to someone higher up in both council tax and benefits. You've had no luck with letters and phone calls in the past. I agree, it sounds like a massive lack of communication between the two departments here and this is something they need to get worked out.

 

If the benefits department have not updated their records on you for 6 years that's not good. IIRC they should review your claim regularly, something like every few months, to make sure that no changes have occurred. This usually involves asking you to send in bank statements etc. Additionally, if your other benefits have changed during this time then it's likely that would have affected how much council tax benefit you are entitled to.

 

As for whether they've issued the summons illegally, I don't know but I really think you need to get down there and sort this out because it's pretty messy.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

I don't know but I really think you need to get down there and sort this out because it's pretty messy.

 

I agree, I think you do need to go down in person, ask to speak someone more senior. After 6 years ... well, there's something rather frankly wrong about how your claim is being dealt with. Either way, from what you are saying, there appears to be something very fundamentlly wrong with record keeping at a serious level, as it may not be just you that's affected by this.

[Nobnob]

^ Exactly. If indeed the benefits dept haven't updated your claim in 6 years they may be paying an amount different to that which you are entitled. Having people on your council tax bill who no longer live there is also pretty bad because it means those people are legally liable for a property which they have no connection to anymore.

[understanding]

If you are querying the charge then they should put a hold on your account to prevent recovery action whilst the query is in place. This is why I think it's really important to go down there with full details and copies of everything you have, and ask to speak to someone higher up in both council tax and benefits. You've had no luck with letters and phone calls in the past. I agree, it sounds like a massive lack of communication between the two departments here and this is something they need to get worked out.

 

If the benefits department have not updated their records on you for 6 years that's not good. IIRC they should review your claim regularly, something like every few months, to make sure that no changes have occurred. This usually involves asking you to send in bank statements etc. Additionally, if your other benefits have changed during this time then it's likely that would have affected how much council tax benefit you are entitled to.

 

As for whether they've issued the summons illegally, I don't know but I really think you need to get down there and sort this out because it's pretty messy.

 

 

Hello, Nobnob,

 

I have been in touch with the council with a query and am waiting to hear from them now.

[understanding]

I agree, I think you do need to go down in person, ask to speak someone more senior. After 6 years ... well, there's something rather frankly wrong about how your claim is being dealt with. Either way, from what you are saying, there appears to be something very fundamentlly wrong with record keeping at a serious level, as it may not be just you that's affected by this.

 

Hi, Cartaphilus,

 

How are you? I have been busy trying to sort out a new printer as my old one couldn’t handle the strain of photocopies, lol.

 

To be sure there is something wrong somewhere and I suspect they are shifting the blame on to me. They have tried to do this before when I first moved into the property where they issued a Magistrates Summons whilst in the MIDDLE of my investigation as to what was going on and despite my appeals to do so which led to solicitors etc. Not a route I particularly wanted to go down again but it seems I may have no choice.

 

I am certain they will be extremely economical with the truth as they have done before and it will be a case of my word against theirs.

Edited October 1, 2010 by understanding

[understanding]

^ Exactly. If indeed the benefits dept haven't updated your claim in 6 years they may be paying an amount different to that which you are entitled. Having people on your council tax bill who no longer live there is also pretty bad because it means those people are legally liable for a property which they have no connection to anymore.

 

Yes, Nobnob, I think that is the problem which means they never took on board my telephone calls asking them to delete the names from the C.T. Benefits Award which affects the amount of my C.T. liability.

 

 

And that itself is a problem. I have gone through every single C.T. demand and roughly checked the C.T. Benefit Award for the same periods and there is a common theme – overpayment from the benefit award department to the council tax department. The first time it happened they had the names of all residents and full details of income yet they still applied a single person’s discount – this meant they applied this discount when paying the council tax department.

 

This went on DURING the investigation I started and was only resolved through legal and councillor intervention. At the meeting I held with ‘top’ officials of the council, I was led to believe they accepted full responsibility. Yet when I received the result of that meeting in writing, the onus was shifted on to me in some respects.

 

So although my complaint was upheld in some respects, it was clearly shown there was a doubt on their behalf in my case on whether I had complied fully and openly and they told me that was the end of the matter as far as they were concerned, despite there continuing to be problems with the C.T. office and C.T. benefits awards office after this.

 

This went on for some time when in the end I gave up and paid what they demanded because they simply wore me down.

 

Now, this time, it seems that I am at fault a little due to not opening up all my mail this year as and when they arrived. I won’t go into full details but I will say circumstances really did get in the way of my attending to other things due to a fire, electric hazards, leaks and the loss of hot water and central heating so it’s been a real hectic year so far.

 

While searching for the documents involved in this case, I found a reminder from the C.T. which points to them acting properly in the respect of following procedures except of course the names on the council tax award are wrong.

 

So now I am digging through legislation for the council tax and benefit claims to see what it states exactly because I still believe they should have acted on information as and when they were given it.

 

For example, I have learned that as soon as they are notified by the person liable for C.T. of a change, they are meant to issue a letter/notice confirming the changes in writing.

 

They haven’t issued any letters regarding the changes until now so the benefit overpayment happened BEFORE I pulled them up on supplying the wrong informtion, although looking at one award it is clear they changed their minds from one month to the next in respect of whether there was an overpayment or not. I suspect this could be due to my alerting them again of supplying wrong information on the C.T. Benefit Award.

 

I will add that when you ring them they state they are two different departments and information may not have gotten from one to the other, or so they have told me this year because they made a big deal about which department did I call. There is only one telephone number given on the council paperwork and when asking to speak with someone concerning C.T. and the wrong names being put down, I cannot say for sure which department I ended up talking to at any given time until this year when I was adamant they change the information and put it right.

 

It is all very confusing due to the way the Council Tax is paid (when the liable person is claiming Council Tax Benefit) – directly from the Benefits Award department. Obviously I have no control over what is paid or what isn’t as it goes from one department to another and there is never any breakdown of dates of amounts paid or why, which I believe would make it difficult for even an accountant to follow what money is owed, if anything, and who is liable for same.

 

Well, I shall have to wait and see what will happen and shall return to gleaning whatever information I can from the legislation.

 

Hugs,

 

understanding

Edited October 1, 2010 by understanding
amended

[understanding]

As an update, I had forgotten the period they had charged me for my mother living with me in 2003 - after she died from cancer in 2000.

 

There is a history of the council's erratic updating methods as well as being economical with the truth. I guess I shall have to sue.