Telephone Contracts

[Peterbard]

I got a call yesterday from Nat Power trying to get me to change my supplier.As usuall I said no thanks . He then went on with his speel and amongst the usual sales drivel he said we can do it all over the phone no need to sign a contract,i eventually had to hang up to get rid of him.But it started me thinking.

If someone contracts for a sevice over the phone and then defaults would the contract be enforceable,as taped recordings as far as i remember are inadmissable in court. I must add that i do would not condone this kind of behaviour but if it isn't, what is to stop some unscrupulous person giving you a service that you didn't require and saying you ordered it on the phone then issuing a bill.

I thought that these contracts were followed up by a conventional paper agreement but according to people i have asked it is not the case,they usually recieve a confirmation but not a contract to return with a signature.

[buzby]

As all these calls are recorded, it'll be a verbal contract if there is a dispute, and one of the reasons I don't enter into contracts on the phone or on the doorstep.

[Peterbard]

Yes but is it enforceable.I was always told that a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it was writen on.

Peter

[buzby]

Yes but is it enforceable.I was always told that a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it was writen on.

Peter

 

If only that was still the case. Yes, it will be enforceable as a verbal contract as all your calls will be recorded and logged (hence the usual warning when you call, not only does this legitimise the recording under the DPA, but can be used against you if you later dispute it.

 

Of interest in the good old days before people could take money out of your bank account, they had to have a DDM complete eith yout signature. All this has gone, they now 'assert' that you provided them with this information and take the money they want. It is only when you complain to your bank to say it was in error (for whatever reason) that you get the money back. This is NOT what I call keeping in control of your finances.

[Peterbard]

Thanks for that i had no idea that things had changed so much.

I particularily take your point about the ddm, I have online banking and only last week when checking my direct debits i found that an entry appeared for a payment to a telephone sales company i new nothing about.Needless to say i stopped it immediatly and rang the company,they insisted I had placed an order but I new nothing aout it and was on holliday when the order was placed.

Also what about the compulsarry cooling off period and how does that apply,woulden't the applicant have to be notified in writing and given notice of their rights in this regard.

If you wanted a copy of your contract and persued it usung the 1974(7) cca how would the company comply?Send you a tape?

I was also under the impression that recordings were not admissable as evidence in the county court is this also incorrect?

 

Peter

[meagain]

If only that was still the case. Yes, it will be enforceable as a verbal contract as all your calls will be recorded and logged (hence the usual warning when you call, not only does this legitimise the recording under the Data Protection Act, but can be used against you if you later dispute it.

 

This is also the reason why you generally don't need to warn the call centre operator that you're recording the call - if you have had such a warning automatically before being connected, it should be reasonable to assume that the call centre operators have already been forewarned that their calls are recorded.

 

As for recordings being inadmissible, this is a common misunderstanding. It arises from the fact that evidence obtained by covert surveillance is inadmissible. Recording a telephone call while either party has no knowledge of the recording constitutes covert surveillance. This includes third parties listening in, or one party recording without the other's knowledge.

[buzby]

Thanks for that i had no idea that things had changed so much.

It is strange that in the last 10 years, the levels of consumer control has been reduced to laughable levels, yet we keep being told this and that is being done to 'protect' us. As you ably pointed out regarding that DDM, all it takes is a displaced digit and your modey is gone, with the only guarantee being that should you just happen to notice it... you can get your money back, but with no automatic right to interest or fees for what could be viewed at as electronic theft.

If you wanted a copy of your contract and persued it usung the 1974(7) cca how would the company comply?Send you a tape?

No - as I understand it, a transcript of the exchange would be provided, along with a printed copy of the contract T&C's to which you would have agreed somewhere to have read.

 

I was also under the impression that recordings were not admissable as evidence in the county court is this also incorrect?

As noted in an earlier posting, only sureveillance recordings are inadmissable, but in the real workd the Judge is not going to sit there listening to cassettes, minidiscs or MP3's - they like to work with paper, so you would transcribe the recording to the best of your ability, and then self-certify as part of the oath that the evidence you are leading is a true record. Only if it is challenged, with the judge have to compare the recording with the transcript.

[buzby]

This is also the reason why you generally don't need to warn the call centre operator that you're recording the call - if you have had such a warning automatically before being connected, it should be reasonable to assume that the call centre operators have already been forewarned that their calls are recorded.

You would think so, but I brought a Sky Subscriber Services agent to apoplexy when in ther middle of a heated debate on overcharging that I would use a transcript on his responses as part of my Small Claims action. I was given the 'It is Illegal/I was not given due notice' response, which I responded to by saying that all my calls to call centres have a warning message played to them, it's hardly my fault if they're not listeing (visions of my recording telling their recording that the call is being recorded!).

[Peterbard]

It seems my understanding of this subject is somewhat dated.Perhaps i should consider having some kind of disclaimer that automatically plays at the end of each call to the effect that whatever has been said in the previous conversation was said without prejudice just in case i agree to something without realising it.

 

Peter

[buzby]

Well, the other option is to place a Public Notice advert in 'The Times' making a formal statement that you record all calls, and that notwithstanding any voice communication, no contract implicit ot implied is made during any call you make or receive. This would take precedence (override) any subsequent attempt to railroad you!