1st Credit & LCS Battle - court papers received - help

[Undercover-Elsa]

More from pt on that subject:

Question: Brilliant info as ever PT however I note the defended on the merits part... wouldn’t an embarrassed defence be exactly the opposite, you are defending on the claim having no merits at all?

 

Answer: Sadly this is a contradiction, how can you properly assess the merits of the claim without the documents you need?

Hence why you ask under 31.14 for the docs.

 

Now the lender fails to comply, you have a claim that effectively amounts to an abuse of the process as the pleadings are vague, fail to state the account number, fail to set out the nature of the contract in most cases, therefore, how can you defend this?

 

If you do, then It’s really going to be 2 or 3 lines

:

The Defendant is unable to plead due to the Claimants failure to comply with its CPR 31.14 duties in disclosing requested documents

 

The Defendant is embarrassed at the lack of detail within the claimants claim and therefore cannot plead due to the Claimants ongoing failures.

 

The Defendant reserves the right to amend this defence and intends to make an application to the court for an order compelling disclosure.

To clarify, how can you defend when the pleadings are so poor you can’t understand the claim?

 

To do so suggests you can understand the claim, thus negating the ability to file the so called embarrassed defence!!!!!

The correct route is to apply for a strike out or an unless order where the Claimant fails to plead and disclose, do not forget the duty to disclose is an ongoing on from pre action stages and you only need to read paragraph 24 of Expandable Ltd & Anor v Rubin [2008] EWCA Civ 59 to see that.

[newman]

Hi Elsa

 

Well well that was a very interesting call.

 

I just rang J&P and got a recorded message stating that if I was phoning in relation to a letter that had been received on behalf of Connaught Collections then a call should be made to Connaught Collections. Well that wont be happening!

 

I googled J&P and called their number on the website and just eventually managed to speak to a very nice chap called Chris Ridd. After explaining what I wanted as per what you had said earlier re extension of time and when could I expect compliance with CPR18 he informed me that on the 11-07-11 he had been advised that the client (1st Crud) were taking the matter back in house and that they would be applying for a notice of change to the NBCC and that LCS Solicitors would now be dealing with this.

 

Mr Ridd confirmed that I should be receiving notificaiton of this. I confirmed that I had received nothing and was very concerned that the deadline was getting nearer for me to submit a defence.

 

I asked him if he knew why they were doing this and he said that because of the nature of my CPR18 request they wanted to deal with it in house. My thoughts are that it would cost them too much money in charges if J&P were to deal with it.

 

I explained about my concerns regarding the timescales and he did acknowlegdge that they were tight and he suggested that I should speak with 1st Credit.

 

What do you think of this Elsa? - is it a good thing or a bad thing and should I do nothing. If 1st Credit are dealing with this in house and i dont hear anything by the 14 day deadline should I just make a complaint and send the N244 and state that I cant enter a defence due to crap POC?

 

Oh forgot to say I am very reluctant to call 1st Credit for all the reasons listed in my official complaint and I would rather not call them if at all possible. they havent had the courtesy to reespond to my letters in the past and if they dont have the docs then I would rather just deal with it in writing.

Edited July 18, 2011 by newman

[newman]

Elsa - JUst seen your other two posts - thanks a lot - this is great stuff XX (thats big kisses) much appreciated

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hmmm interesting. So they managed to inform him on the 11th, it's now the 18th and they haven't informed you. Nice of them. I'd wait a bit, see if they contact you then send in the N244 near the end of the deadline..I'd plan to get it there at least the day before. You can then include their lack of communication in your notes.

[Undercover-Elsa]

[newman]

Thats exactly what I thought too. The day before would be Friday so that would mean I have to send it Thursday so lets hope they dont write to me before then.

 

I have located the form and will fill it in exactly as you suggested.

 

Can this be sent in on line or do I have to post it.

[alfwithhair]

"advised that the client (1st crud) were taking the matter back in house and that they would be applying for a notice of change to the NBCC and that LCS Solicitors would now be dealing with this."

 

This is there usual trick - Get JP to initiate the proceedings then LCS (trading style-so called solicitors of 1st credit) take it back in house once the papers are issued.

 

There was some discussion about this on the forum a while back. JP were said to be unaware they were being used in this way and were supposed to be ending their association with 1st/Conoughts, but must have thought better of it.

 

There is rumour that this LCS are not solicitors, but not getting into that again

[Undercover-Elsa]

Sound like a set of shysters. Wonder if they've bothered sending the court notification of the change of contact details for notices/documents.

Newman - might be an idea to phone the court, tell them what he said and ask if they've been informed of the new details, as you now have no contact details for who is dealing with your case. Obviously you'd need this to complete the N244. At the same time you can check with the court what the fee is for submitting the N244 for disclosure/set aside.

The N244 will need to be posted by special delivery, as you need to enclose copies of any correspondence (don't forget you need to send everything in duplicate, plus save a copy for yourself...1 lot for the court and 1 lot for their solicitors/pet hamster or whoever is [mis]handling it now. Plus you either need to enclose the fee or an application for fee concession.

You can fill in the form online, and then print it out (it won't save)

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n244_e.pdf

[newman]

Hi Elsa

 

I have just had a look at the N244 form and in preparing what I want to put into box 3 - I will have to alter mine from what you had suggested as that relates to a CPR31:14 already made in relation to documentation already mentioned in a POC.

 

How does this sound and would you suggest any changes?

 

In box [3] of the N244 I thought about this :

An order that unless within 14 days of the making of an order upon this application the Claimant complies with all of the following points

 

A) the claimant complies with the request made by the Defendant on 4-07-11 pursuant to CPR 18 for full disclosure, by the provision to the Defendant of confirmation of any information that the Claimant possesses in order to pursue legal action against the Defendant,

B) the Claimant repleads properly as the Particulars of Claim are too vague and do not allow the Defendant to prepare a proper defence,

C) the claimant complies with the Defendandts request under CPR 31:14 that in addition to full disclosure under CPR 18,the defendant provides evidence to the Claimant of any and all documents they are relying on in this matter

 

that the claim shall stand struck out and the Defendant shall be at liberty to enter judgment against the Claimant without further order of the court with the costs of this case to be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant, to be assessed on the standard basis and pursuant to the provisions of The Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975.

 

The application is made because of the Claimant's vague Particulars of claim and the Claimants inability to comply with the Defendant's CPR 18 request, thereby making it impossible for the Defendant to prepare a proper Defence.'

 

In Box 10 tick the box marked 'the evidence set out in the box below' and how does this sound?

 

The Defendant takes issue with the Claimants pleadings. The Claim is a Bulk Centre claim, however, the rules on pleading apply even to the Bulk Centre and furthermore the Bulk Centre rules and guidelines state that if a Claimant cannot properly particularise the claim in 1024 characters then they should not use the Bulk Centre to issue the claim. The Claimants pleadings amount to circa 396 characters, leaving at least 628 characters available for the Claimant to plead adequately. The Defendant is embarrassed by the Claim and as the applicant has not sufficiently particularised their claim the Defendant is unable to plead or enter a defence.

 

It may be argued that the vague pleadings entrered by the Claimant could be an abuse of the process to bring a vague claim and fail to back it up with documents that the Defendant is entitled to under CPR 31.14.

 

'On 4th July, following service of the Claim Form in this case, I wrote to Mr Gavin Flynn, Head of Collections at 1st Credit requesting information pursuant to CPR 18. A copy of my letter of request, marked "A" is attached to this Form.

 

I contacted the Claimant's solicitors, Judge and Priestley, on Monday 18-07-2011 to enquire when I could expect compliance with my CPR 18 request and spoke with a Mr Chris Ridd. Mr Ridd informed me that he had been advised by the claimant on the 11-07-2011 that the Claimant was taking the matter back in house and that LCS Solicitors were going to be dealing with the matter. Mr Ridd also informed me that the Claimant was going to apply for a Notice of Change and that I should receive notification of this. I have not received the aforementioned notification from the Claimant.

 

Confirmation of what documentation the Claimant holds in relation to this matter is essential for the proper preparation of my defence and the determination of the claim and CPR 18 affords me the right of disclosure from the Claimant and CPR 31:14 affords me a right to inspect those documents. I am concerned that the inability of the Claimant to respond to my CPR18 request puts me at risk of a default judgement without having the opportunity to defend myself.

 

I request under CPR15:5 an extension of time be granted to allow the Claimant to comply with the details in box 3 and for the the Defendant sufficient time to prepare a defence should the Claimant provide the information detailed in box 3.

Edited July 18, 2011 by newman

[newman]

Cheers Alf - I have read something allong those lines somewhere too but cant rember where it was.

 

Good suggestion Elsa - about contacting the court. Also thanks for the advice - I did find the form but its crazy that you cant save it.

 

16:19 - hanging on to speak to someone at the NBCC - position 8 in the queue - oops now 7 - praying i get through soon as it shuts at 17:00hrs

 

16:21 - jumped to position three now

16:24 - Yipppeee now position one now speaking tosomeone

Edited July 18, 2011 by newman

[alfwithhair]

Cheers Alf - I have read something allong those lines somewhere too but cant rember where it was.

 

Good suggestion Elsa - about contacting the court. Also thanks for the advice - I did find the form but its crazy that you cant save it.

 

16:19 - hanging on to speak to someone at the NBCC - position 8 in the queue - oops now 7 - praying i get through soon as it shuts at 17:00hrs

 

16:21 - jumped to position three now

 

It takes forever to get through to them

Their tin pot solicitors still show on their CCL as a 'trading style'

 

1st Credit (Finance) Limited4140507 Categories:

 

Consumer credit Consumer hire Credit brokerage Credit reference agency Debt adjusting/counselling Debt collecting

 

Right To Canvass Off Trade Premises:No

 

 

Trading Name(s) (Current):

 

L.C.S. Solicitors

[Undercover-Elsa]

Worse than getting a Drs appointment!

 

Couple of things jump out...I understand you haven't sent a 31.14 request yet (due to nothing being mentioned in POC) so you'd have to do that after they either mentioned docs (ie agreement,default notice etc) or if they repleaded. Plenty of time to perfect it.

 

I'll be back later to see what the court said

Elsa x

[newman]

Cheers for that info Alf - interesting - I think this just shows what a bunch of muppets this bunch are.

 

Well it only took 5 minutes to get through - quite good I thought.

 

Spoke to a very nice lady called Julia who confirmed its £45 (what a rip off that is). She also confirmed that as of right now they havent had any Notice of Change request from 1s Credit but she did say that they are about a week behind!

 

She was extremely helpful and said that it would be best to fax through the paperwork due to the timescales involved. I asked about duplicates and they will copy the paperwork so thats nice of them!

 

What she did say was that the Notice of Change usually meant a transfer request to my local County Court. Apparently the procedure is that once they receive the N244 form & other paperwork, they will automatically put a bar on judgement and then send the paperwork out to a district judge but this process can take 3 to 4 weeks by the time they get an answer back!

 

My question is how does this work if it takes 3 to 4 when I would be stating in the N244 that unless the Claimant responded within 14 days that the whole matter would be struck out without further reference to the court?

 

Elsa you are right that I didnt send a 31:14 request as no docs were mentioned in the POC and I would appreciate your thoughts on the content of post 243 where I have written some possible comments for point 3 & 10 as I have included a 31:14 request in box 3 as well as getting them to replead. Might as well give them some more work.

 

Huge huge thanks xx

Edited July 18, 2011 by newman

[Undercover-Elsa]

The order is worded as "from receipt of thgis notice" so regardless how long the court took to process it, it would run from when the claimants sols received it, afaik.Meanwhile the important thing is that the court immediately puts a stop on further action, so no sneaky defaults, deliberate or automatic can happen.

 

I'll have a ponder on the wording of the order, hopefully there'll be input from others too...I'll see if I can get someone else in to help as it's important to get it right.

Don't worry, we'll sort it between us

[Undercover-Elsa]

In the meantime it might be an idea to email or fax the claimants and state that you were concerned to learn from a phone call that they have changed solicitors and that you have not been informed. You would therefore be most grateful if they would confirm the new address for notices to be sent regarding the case. (You'll need it for the N244)

[newman]

The order is worded as "from receipt of thgis notice" so regardless how long the court took to process it, it would run from when the claimants sols received it, afaik.Meanwhile the important thing is that the court immediately puts a stop on further action, so no sneaky defaults, deliberate or automatic can happen.

 

I'll have a ponder on the wording of the order, hopefully there'll be input from others too...I'll see if I can get someone else in to help as it's important to get it right.

Don't worry, we'll sort it between us

 

Cheers Elsa - The very nice lady Julia at the court said that as soon as they receive the payment once I have faxed the paperwork through there would be an automatic bar on judgement for the time being so that is a comfort anyway.

Thanks for all this help - it is hugely appreciated.

 

In the meantime it might be an idea to email or fax the claimants and state that you were concerned to learn from a phone call that they have changed solicitors and that you have not been informed. You would therefore be most grateful if they would confirm the new address for notices to be sent regarding the case. (You'll need it for the N244)

 

Good Point - I did ask Julia at the court about this and she said that if they hadnt responded by Friday when I sent the N244 in just to put 1st credit's address on there. I will fax them and see what they come up with. If their past performance is anything to go no this will be totally ignored.

 

Again huge thanks.

[newman]

OK Fax gone off

 

Dear Mr Flynn

 

REF – Cxx/xxxx/xxx/xxx/

 

I telephoned Judge & Priestley solicitors today to ascertain when I could expect compliance with my CPR 18 request dated 04-07-2011 which was received and signed for at your company on the 07-07-2011 at 8:50am by someone called Tumber.

 

I spoke with Mr Chris Ridd at J&P who informed me that he had been advised on the 11-07-2011 that 1st Credit intend to take this matter back in house with LCS Solicitors dealing with this matter now and that J&P are no longer acting on behalf of 1st Credit in this matter. Mr Ridd also informed me that 1s Credit is going to be applying for a Notice of Change and that the Northampton County Court Bulk Centre (NCCBC). Mr Ridd also informed me that I would be informed of this.

 

I called the NCCBC immediately after speaking with Mr Ridd and spoke with a lady called Julia who informed me that she had no record of any contact from 1st Credit in respect of the proposed request for a Notice of Change.

 

I am very concerned to have been told in a telephone call that you have changed solicitors and have not informed me. I would therefore be most grateful if you would immediately confirm by return fax the new address for notices to be sent to regarding the case.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Wxxxx:Sxxxxx

[newman]

OK I have been working on the content for the N244 form and would really appreciate some feedback / suggestions for changes please. The one bit I am not sure about is putting in the CPR 31:14 at this stage? Your thoughts, comments, observations are all very welcome.

 

OH please tell me if I have missed anything obvious out.

 

OK - the BOX 3 Bit

An order that unless within 14 days of the making of an order upon this application, the Claimant, A) complies with the request made by the Defendant on 4-07-11 pursuant to CPR 18 for full disclosure, by the provision to the Defendant of confirmation of any information that the Claimant possesses in order to pursue legal action against the Defendant, B) re-pleads properly as the Particulars of Claim are too vague and do not allow the Defendant to prepare a proper defence, C) complies with the Defendants further request under CPR 31:14 to provide evidence to the Defendant of any and all documents the Claimant intends to rely on in this matter, that the claim shall stand struck out and the Defendant shall be at liberty to enter judgment against the Claimant without further order of the court with the costs of this case to be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant, to be assessed on the standard basis and pursuant to the provisions of The Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975.

 

The application is made because of the Claimant's vague Particulars of claim and the Claimants inability to comply with the Defendant's CPR 18 request, thereby making it impossible for the Defendant to prepare a proper Defence.'

 

BOX 10 BIT

The Defendant takes issue with the Claimants pleadings. The Claim is a Bulk Centre claim, however, the rules on pleading apply even to the Bulk Centre and furthermore the Bulk Centre rules and guidelines state that if a Claimant cannot properly particularise the claim in 1024 characters then they should not use the Bulk Centre to issue the claim. The Claimants pleadings amount to circa 396 characters, leaving at least 628 characters available for the Claimant to plead adequately. The Defendant is embarrassed by the Claim and as the applicant has not sufficiently particularised their claim the Defendant is unable to plead or enter a defence.

 

On 04-07-2011, following service of the Claim Form in this case, the Defendant wrote to Mr Gavin Flynn, Head of Collections at 1st Credit requesting information pursuant to CPR 18. A copy of the defendant’s letter of request, marked "A" is attached to this Form. The defendant informed the Claimant that if the information requested was not forthcoming, it would be reported to the court that the Claimant was trying to frustrate proceedings and denying the Defendant the opportunity to file a defence and enter a counter claim.

 

The Defendant telephoned the Claimant's solicitors, Judge and Priestley, on Monday 18-07-2011 to enquire when he could expect compliance with his CPR 18 request and he spoke with a Mr Chris Ridd. Mr Ridd informed the Defendant that he had been advised by the claimant on the 11-07-2011 that the Claimant was taking the matter back in house and that LCS Solicitors were going to be dealing with the matter. Mr Ridd also informed the Defendant that the Claimant was going to apply for a Notice of Change and that the Defendant should receive notification of this. The Defendant has not received the aforementioned notification from the Claimant.

 

It may be argued that:

A. the vague pleadings entered by the Claimant

B. the failure of the Claimant to comply with the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement in which the Claimant should have attached to or served a copy of any contract or documents constituting any alleged agreement with the particulars of claim (and the original(s) should be available at the hearing) and that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should have been attached

C. the Claimant’s failure to respond to the defendants CPR 18 request and

D. the fact that the Claimant has changed solicitors and intends to request a Notice of Change without informing the Defendant, could be an abuse of the process.

 

Confirmation of what documentation the Claimant holds in relation to this matter is essential for the proper preparation of the Defendants defence and the determination of the claim and CPR 18 affords the Defendant the right of disclosure from the Claimant and CPR 31:14 affords the Defendant a right to inspect any documents which the Claimant has in their possession on which they intend to rely on in court.

 

The Defendant is concerned that the inability of the Claimant to respond to his CPR18 request puts him at risk of a default judgement without having the opportunity to defend himself.

 

The Defendant requests under CPR15:5 that an extension of time is granted to allow the Claimant to comply with all of this order and to allow the Defendant sufficient time to prepare a defence should the Claimant provide the information detailed in this order

 

AND FINALLY THE DRAFT

Claim No: xxxxxxxx

Draft Order

1. Unless by 4:00pm on 29-07-2011 the claimant :-

 

A) Complies with the request made by the Defendant on 4-07-11 pursuant to CPR 18 for full disclosure, by the provision to the Defendant of confirmation of any information that the Claimant possesses in order to pursue legal action against the Defendant,

 

B) Re-pleads properly as the Particulars of Claim are too vague and do not allow the Defendant to prepare a proper defence,

 

C) Complies with the Defendants further request under CPR 31:14 that in addition to full disclosure under CPR 18,the defendant provides evidence to the Claimant of any and all documents they are relying on in this matter

 

the claim shall stand struck out and

 

the Defendant shall be at liberty to enter judgment against the Claimant without further order of the court, and

[ii] the Claimant shall pay the Defendant his costs of this case to be assessed on the standard basis and pursuant to the provisions of The Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975.

 

2. In the event that the Claimant shall comply with this order,

the Defendant shall file and serve a Defence by 4:00pm on 19-08-2011 and

[ii] the Claimant shall pay the Defendant his/her costs of this application.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Morning Newman,

OK we're getting there, but it needs more thought.

Can you post up exactly what you sent in your part 18 request?

 

Also, for easy reference of anyone else who may come in to help, here again are the POC's:

 

The claimant claims the sum of 8,898.97 for debt and

The defendant was indebted to Citifinancial Europe PLC for credit advanced. The debt was assigned to the claimant. Notice of assignement was given to the defendant.

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1 The sum of 6.727.12

2 Statutory interest pursuant to section 69 of the county court Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00% per annum from 08/06/07 to 20/6/11 2,171.85 & thereafter at a daily rate of 1.47 until judgment or sooner payment

 

 

 

With reference to the above, the daft beggars cannot charge Statutory Interest on a CCA regulated debt. the only interest that can be claimed is that specified in the T&C's of the agreement. So the amount they are claiming is wrong, and they have really shown up their lack of knowledge.

However, we are not going to tell them that yet are we? That's for later..if there is a later.

 

And the relevant legislation:

 

The County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991

 

The general rule

 

2.—(1) Subject to the following provisions of this Order, every judgmentdebt under a relevant judgment shall, to the extent that it remainsunsatisfied, carry interest under this Order from the date on which therelevant judgment was given.

(2) In the case of a judgment or order for the payment of a judgmentdebt, other than costs, the amount of which has to be determined at alater date, the judgment debt shall carry interest from that later date.

(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevant judgment—

(a)is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974(1);

[newman]

With reference to the above, the daft beggars cannot charge Statutory Interest on a CCA regulated debt. the only interest that can be claimed is that specified in the T&C's of the agreement. So the amount they are claiming is wrong, and they have really shown up their lack of knowledge.

However, we are not going to tell them that yet are we? That's for later..if there is a later.

And the relevant legislation:

 

Good Morning Elsa

Well that is a piece of information I wasnt aware of thank ypou very much for that - priceless - I will add that to my complaint report (oh BTE the trading standards called yesterday but I missed them so will speak to them today). ALso in relation to the interest - they are trying to charge interest for three days before thedate on the NOA I received from Citi on the NOA - the NOA was dated 11-06-07 and they have stated 08-06-07. And they are also trying to cliam interest for a period when the account was in dispute - remember from the first time I requested my CCA to the time they supplied a pile of what they claim is my agreement was over 33 months. - All of that is in my complaint report.

 

As well as the CPR18 I have sent two other letters to Mr Flynn stating that I will pay in full any lawful obligation I may have (conditional agreement) -

In the matter of the request for my payment of £6,727.12, I would be very happy to settle any financial obligation I might lawfully owe as soon as I have received the following documentation from you:

1 Verification of your claim against me (a sworn affidavit or a hand signed invoice in accordance Bills of Exchange Act (1882) );

2 A Copy of a lawful contract signed by both parties and therefore binding both parties.

3 Validation of the debt (the actual accounting)

I hereby give you ten (10) days from the above date to reply to this notice. Your said failure to provide the aforementioned documentation will constitute your agreement to the following terms:

1 That you are a third party interloper;

2 You have no legal standing; no first-hand knowledge of this matter;

3 Your claim is fraudulent;

4 Any damages I suffer you will be held culpable;

5 You agree to pay all fee schedules;

6 That any negative remarks made to a credit reference agency will be removed

7 That you will no longer pursue this matter any further

Should you provide sufficient evidence that I owe your organisation or your client any outstanding amount and that you can provide proof that they have assigned you agency, I should be happy to pay any verified claim in full.

 

This is if you like the second part of my strategy as I have condiditonally agreed to settle this matter in full I understand that this removes any controvesy on which a court could adjudicate. As they have now ignored both letters i wrote a third one and we are now in a tacit agreement situation so I want to use this at some point too if I need to put a defence together.

 

These letter are in post #'s - 173 & 197.

 

I have also written a thrid letter (post #214 ) informing him tjhat we now have a lawfully binding Tacit agreement, which means that Estoppel by Aquiesence is applicable and an official Estoppel notice will be sent this week to them. I want to use these other litle gems if I do have to enter a defence, although I feel it may not be necessary as I think they have done a good job of damning themselves without any help from me!

 

OK the CPR 18 - Here it is in all its glory.

 

Mr Gavin Flynn

Head of Collections

1st credit (Finance) Ltd

The Omnibus Building

Lesbourne Road

Reigate

Surrey

RH2 7JP

 

In the Northampton county court Bulk Centre

Claimant -v- (Wxxxxx Sxxxxx)

Claim Number: xxxxxxxx

 

04th July 2011

 

Dear Mr Flynn

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION CPR 18

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation dated 21st June 2011 out of the Northampton County Court Bulk Centre. I confirm I have completed an acknowledgement of service on line in which I have indicated that I intend to contest your entire claim.

 

In order to file a defence I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, your company is obliged to disclose the information and documents detailed below under the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

I notice in the particulars of claim you mention that I was indebted to CitiFinancial Europe PLC, yet you give no particulars of any agreement/s on which you are relying on for this case, therefore, I request that you confirm the following.

 

1. Do you have a true copy of the original, signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened?

1A. Was the agreement in written form and if so was this a regulated agreement under the Credit Consumer Act 1974.

 

2. Do you have true copies of any default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me and do you have copies of any proof of postage?

 

3. If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

4. I require written confirmation of all records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with Citi Financial

c. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Wxxxxx Sxxxxx

Edited July 19, 2011 by newman

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Newman,

 

Just concentrating on the court process at the moment, the part 18 request covers everything. Once they comply with that and mention the Agreement & Default Notice etc then you can do your 31.14 request, as you know.

 

Having read/thought through this again, I'm of the opinion that the time to request a repleading would have been as soon as you received the claim and prior to making the part 18 request.

As you've already done this, and thankfully it covers everything you will need to proceed to the 31.14 request, then I personally now think it best in terms of protocol and clarity to leave repleading off the order. At the moment it's over complex. It needs to be straight forward and state if they don't comply with part 18 by xxxx date then strike out. If they do comply then an order for further time sufficient for you to request under 31.14 documents mentioned in their response which are crucial to the defence.

 

With regard to the stated times, I've looked into this more and it is a little confusing. I think it's safer to state actual dates, for clarity and to prevent possible disputes. I believe one can only use "within 14 days" if the order is being served directly on the recipient.

As, once you send the N244 to the court you will not know when the claimant will receive it, I think you may need to ring the court and seek clarification, stating that you wish to issue an unless order giving them a specific date 14 days from receipt to comply, therefore you need an indication of how long it will take the court to process the application and the claimant to receive it.

 

What do others think?

 

Elsa x

[newman]

Hi Newman,

 

Just concentrating on the court process at the moment, the part 18 request covers everything Well thats reassuring to know.. Once they comply with that and mention the Agreement & Default Notice etc then you can do your 31.14 request, as you know.I am really hoping they dont reply within the 14 days as I want to get this N244 off:) make them really work for their money

 

Having read/thought through this again, I'm of the opinion that the time to request a repleading would have been as soon as you received the claim and prior to making the part 18 request.

As you've already done this, and thankfully it covers everything you will need to proceed to the 31.14 request, then I personally now think it best in terms of protocol and clarity to leave repleading off the order. OK thats fine its one less thing to put in the box 3 and it seems you are very limited there in the amount of text you can put in

 

At the moment it's over complex. It needs to be straight forward and state if they don't comply with part 18 by xxxx date then strike out. If they do comply then an order for further time sufficient for you to request under 31.14 documents mentioned in their response which are crucial to the defence. Thats absolutely fine with me - i did think it was getting a bit OTT when I was writing it but this is my first time doing this so apologies for this. I am very happy with KISS

 

With regard to the stated times, I've looked into this more and it is a little confusing. I think it's safer to state actual dates, for clarity and to prevent possible disputes. I believe one can only use "within 14 days" if the order is being served directly on the recipient. Can I not do this or does it have to be done through the court?

 

As, once you send the N244 to the court you will not know when the claimant will receive it, I think you may need to ring the court and seek clarification, stating that you wish to issue an unless order giving them a specific date 14 days from receipt to comply, therefore you need an indication of how long it will take the court to process the application and the claimant to receive it. I will do that right now and feedback

 

What do others think?

 

Elsa x

 

Hi Elsa - thank you so much for your help - its hugely reassuring to have people on this forum that cab guide those of us that are less knowledgable along the right road. I was going to answer in red in the body of your text but the colour icon isnt working so I have dont it in bold italics instead as that does seem to be working.

 

So can you tell me if I have got this right from what I think you have said?

 

First send the N244 only asking for compliance with the CPR 18 request and nothing else.

secondly depending on whether or not they comply with this will depend on what happens - if they do comply then is that the time to ask for an extension under CPR15: 5 and also ask for the actual docs under 31:14?

 

if no compliance with CPR 18 then go for a strike out?

 

is that what you meant.

[newman]

Another update - Letter just arrived from J&P (they can move fast when they want to)

 

When I was on the phone yesterday to MR Ridd I asked him if he could confirm what he told me in writing.

 

Interestingly the letter states Connaught Collections as their client yet it is 1st Credit who are the Claimant!! As Connaught are only a trading style of 1st Credit I thiunk I will ignore this.

 

Anyway the letter states

 

Dear Sir

 

RE: Our Client - Connaught Collections UK LTd

 

As discussed in our telephone conversation, we write to confirm that LCS Solicitors have been instructed to act in this matter in our place. A Notice of Change will be filed with the Court - and a copy sent to you direct - by them shortly.

 

Our client have confoirmed that LCS Solicitors will be dealing with your CPR 18 request and that you will be able to direct your request under CPR 15.5 to them once you have received the Notice of Change.

 

As discussed, we are no longer instructed in this matter and this letter will be the last letter to you from our firm

 

Yours faithfully

 

Judge & Priestley LLP (computer generated "signature")

 

I find it interesting that there is no word from 1st Credit at all - no response to my fax nothing - well I am hoping that all this silence will just be scoring me brownie points.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Newman,

 

Just concentrating on the court process at the moment, the part 18 request covers everything Well thats reassuring to know.. Once they comply with that and mention the Agreement & Default Notice etc then you can do your 31.14 request, as you know.I am really hoping they dont reply within the 14 days as I want to get this N244 off:) make them really work for their money

 

Having read/thought through this again, I'm of the opinion that the time to request a repleading would have been as soon as you received the claim and prior to making the part 18 request.

As you've already done this, and thankfully it covers everything you will need to proceed to the 31.14 request, then I personally now think it best in terms of protocol and clarity to leave repleading off the order. OK thats fine its one less thing to put in the box 3 and it seems you are very limited there in the amount of text you can put in

 

At the moment it's over complex. It needs to be straight forward and state if they don't comply with part 18 by xxxx date then strike out. If they do comply then an order for further time sufficient for you to request under 31.14 documents mentioned in their response which are crucial to the defence. Thats absolutely fine with me - i did think it was getting a bit OTT when I was writing it but this is my first time doing this so apologies for this. I am very happy with KISS

 

With regard to the stated times, I've looked into this more and it is a little confusing. I think it's safer to state actual dates, for clarity and to prevent possible disputes. I believe one can only use "within 14 days" if the order is being served directly on the recipient. Can I not do this or does it have to be done through the court? The court sends it to them after you've sent your application to the Court.

 

As, once you send the N244 to the court you will not know when the claimant will receive it, I think you may need to ring the court and seek clarification, stating that you wish to issue an unless order giving them a specific date 14 days from receipt to comply, therefore you need an indication of how long it will take the court to process the application and the claimant to receive it. I will do that right now and feedback

 

What do others think?

 

Elsa x

It's basically what you've already done, less the repleading and made more concise.

I think we can word the order to include time for you to act upon their response to the part 18 request, ie submitting a 31.14 plus time for their response and for your defence prep.

Leave it with me..we have till..Friday?

I'm a bit stuck today as OH is day off and we're busy, but I'll redraft it for you tomorrow if you wish, then we can tweak it/get other opinions before it goes off. Meanwhile see what the court says about how to do the dates.

[Undercover-Elsa]

I get the impression that J&P aren't too impressed with them either, LOL. Wouldn't it be fun to get them to act on your behalf?