New girl without a clue - help needed defending return of goods please

[happiness1]

Hi All

I went to court on this one and feel totally wiped out with it all. I was given 7 days to submit a new revised defence but the District Judge commented I would be foolish - sarcastically asked if I still had the car as though I have a cheek. Consent order was granted for RCI to be the claimant . I just google RFS and found a thread by jkspepper 17th Jan 2008 @2256. I found it interesting and wondered if anyone was free to advise / marry the 2 threads please.

I dont know if my defence already submmitted does me any favours as it is. I am at a loss as to what to do next .

[middenmess]

Hi All

I went to court on this one and feel totally wiped out with it all. I was given 7 days to submit a new revised defence but the District Judge commented I would be foolish - sarcastically asked if I still had the car as though I have a cheek. Consent order was granted for RCI to be the claimant . I just google RFS and found a thread by jkspepper 17th Jan 2008 @2256. I found it interesting and wondered if anyone was free to advise / marry the 2 threads please.

I dont know if my defence already submmitted does me any favours as it is. I am at a loss as to what to do next .

 

Hi happiness

 

Send a PM to this cagger---wannabedebtfreesoon--- who has good knowledge of car finances/reposession.

 

Her thread makes an entertaining read!!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?242261-Car-repossessd-off-private-property-with-no-default-or-termination-served-with-police-consent%21-Please-help/page55

[happiness1]

Thanks Middenmess reallly appreciated

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Hello Happiness, so you've got 7 days to file a revised defence. I don't understand what happened with your first defence, was it lost or was there some problem with it??

[citizenB]

Perhaps if you pop up your original defence, we could have a look and see what needs revising. If you only have 7 days then you need to act fast.

[happiness1]

Hi Citizen , thank you for the reply I'm sorry I didn't respond at the time but I lost the will to address this sorry business and find the site hard to get around .

 

I attended court yesterday for what was meant to be a 3 hour hearing which ran into its 6th. Would like to update fellow caggers particularly on the set up of defending yaself as I almost LOST because I did not know what was expected of me. I also hope to gain final advice regarding written closing submmission.

 

Could you or anyone reading this advise how to bring this to everyones attention

 

Many thanks and again apologies

[happiness1]

Hi All I originally posted my case on here (dont know how to link) which went to court yesterday.

The case is between myself and RFS original thread 'Girl without a clue'.

What was originally allocated 3 hours turned into double that, I put up a good fight but faltered on not understanding what was expected of me in court (CANNOT believe that as I didn't put the 'Acts, etc verbally to the courts that my defence meant nothing ) when I realised at the conclusion of the hearing the judge did give recognition to my representing myself and much to the claimants annoyance I was permitted as were they to serve written closing submissions limited to issues I had brought up and included in my written defence (whick i niavely thought the Judge would read prior to the hearing - obviously NOT !!!)

 

(Issue 1) Default Notice - I proved in court that the default notice included one extra payment and it looked promising as I had referred to the Wood chester case however the Judge has asked that I address the 'minimus' issue I understand this to be the affect and consequences

(Issue 2) Signing of the Agreement - I was questioned at great length regarding this as I did not sign however as I did not quote the Acts, etc the Judge said this matter had been addressed (not in my favour in my judgement) THANKFULLY I was granted permission to include this in my written closing submision within 14 days

 

The claimant also has the same permission and I hope someone may be able to help in my last stab at this.

 

Thank you for reading any questions I'm glad to answer but pretty useless at uploading docs etc ..... even a good luck would be appreciated

[sillygirl1]

The request should be shown to the judge and blatant intimidation and delaying tactics by the company involved. They should not be doing this at this late stage.

 

Contact the court immediately and state that you do NOT agree to this as you do not see any reason for them to change and do not understand the legal arguements behind this...

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

So you've been given 14 days to submit a closing submission, will there be another hearing or will the Judge just make a decision on the written evidence filed??

 

In effect it seems that the court is asking for a summary of everything that has happened so far without bringing any other issues into the mix so that it may clearly see exactly what the situation is and then make a final judgement on what the outcome should be.

 

What are you hoping the outcome will be?

[happiness1]

Hi Wannabe , I have just wrote a lengthy post on how the hearing went but I cant see it ??

 

 

Yes you are correct that's exactly as I understand it to be - she said she would consider the hearing but only to submit what she has permitted which is the default and agreement issue. She said to address issues arising from the amount of default (de Minimus) to attach page 1436 of the new white book index of Wood Chester particularly the court of appeal descion and reports 263, conversion tort on signing agreement (think that was to the other side).

I am overwhelmed by it all tbh, this is not my forte although the Judge did comment that I had done pretty well considering (not sure how to take that really) .

At one point it seemed highly likely she was throwing it out on the Wood Chester part but the minimus thing swayed her from my understanding.

 

What do you think Wannabe ?

 

regards

[maroondevo52]

Hi, happiness 1.

 

I'm going to move your post to this thread and include a link to the thread you posted on.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[happiness1]

sorry I'm hoping the outcome will be that the Agreement is deemed unenforceable as I didn't sign it and the very least the default will be deemed the same altho I dont know if they can reissue or pursue my husband

[happiness1]

Thank you

[happiness1]

sorry do you have the lengthy court description I posted a short while ago ?

[maroondevo52]

Sorry problems moving post, here's the content...............................

 

Hi I noticed this thread just by googling RFS - new to the site but wondered if there was a way of my using the details from the above customer services manager at the start of this thread for my case which I have 7 days (3 left) to submit a revised defence ????

My original post is Girl without a Clue. I atteneded court a couple of days ago as I would not give consent to amended Particulars of Claim - the Judge granted the request and advised I was foolish in incurring thousands in charges should the court find in the claimants favour in September. I will not receive the claimants defence until 2 weeks prioir to the final hearing.

 

This is the thread it's from...........................

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?127328-RCI-Financial-Services-%28formerly-Renault-Financial-Services%29&p=3094423&highlight=#post3094423

[happiness1]

I'm looking for help in particular with finding page 1436 of the new White book - index of Woodchester case and in particular the court of appeal decsion Woodchester Lease Management Services v SW Shane and reports 263.

 

Also anything on tort in relation to my NOT signing the Agreement.

 

 

In relation to the Default and in addition to the incorrect amount can anyone tell me that having had the Agreement terminated in Nov 2007 but allowed to pay the arrears afterwards having involved Trading Standards is there anything further the company should have done to unterminate the agreement which would render the default unenforceable in any case ?

The company terminated phonecalls before and after my paying the arrears but the Judge did not give recognition to this as that was a seperate default notice BUT I had nothing to say it was unterminated

 

thanks

Edited September 19, 2010 by happiness1
additional info

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

I wish there was something I could say that would make this any less complicated or overwhelming for you but unfortunately there is not I can however, offer you everything I have learned from my own experience and you can only do your best

 

Is the claim against you only or is it a joint claim against your husband too??

 

If you give me a couple of hours to get my children fed, bathed and in bed, I'll be snuggling down with my lappy for the evening and I'll have a good nose and see if there might be something I can offer you in assistance.

[happiness1]

Hi Wannabe sounds like my night ...... yes the action is against ME not my husband. I explained the facts that while I was on a test drive my husband signed the Agreement in my abscence and without my knowlege, I signed the sales invoice and having handed my vehicle over as deposit (no outstanding HP) I thought that was part in it, my husband also signed the direct debit mandate but I did not know it was in my name until I had cause to check the documents on our seperation (reconciled since) xxx

[happiness1]

When questioned in the court I admmitted no liability but when asked if I had the vehicle I admmitted I did as it was the family car - the company would not assure me I had ownership of the vehicle if I made the payments.

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Hello, sorry for the delay in replying. So let me get this straight, the agreement is solely in your name but not signed by you and your part ex was not included in the agreement???

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Very confusing but my interpretation is:

 

• The default is invalid due to overstating of sums due
  
• The other side is saying this is a de minimis issue
  
• The agreement is not signed by you but by another person
  
• Because you didn't sign the agreement Section 61 of the Act should apply
  
• The other side are allowed to investigate conversion tort because your husband signed for the car when he shouldn't have
  
• You need to establish a defence to this
  
• You need to include a transcript of the Woodchester case to prove that an amount incorrectly stated on a default notice is NOT a de minimis issue.
  
• All other issues relating to this case are not permitted to be mentioned, it is solely limited to the default and signing issues
  

I believe your strongest argument is the invalid default as it clearly isn't a de minimis issue and that can be verified with case law and statute. I also believe that you can honestly defend the signing issue as you weren't aware the agreement was solely in your name at the time of signing and that, as a consumer, you were already at a disadvantage when entering a contract with a large company so the responsibility to ensure accuracy and transparency within the contract should lie with the creditor.

There is further case law to support this but it won't come to mind at the mo

 

I'll have a look with a clearer head in the morning

[happiness1]

Thanks Wannabe I think I am on the right track now - reluctant to post what I have written on here in case The Enemy is watching ha ha ya never know!!!!. I have found the case law you mentioned and just for everyone's benefit I found the following site if googled invaluable

CHECK-MY-DEBT Live a Debt Free Life - Case Law Links

Not sure on my defence part wether I reiterate what i said in court and wether to volunteer my husband as a witness if required. Also uncertain as to how I present the info and wether to sell myself as the law abiding citizen I am ?????

If ok with you I will email you later with what I have put together overnight . Cant tell you how grateful I am for your support oops I just did x

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Thanks Wannabe I think I am on the right track now - reluctant to post what I have written on here in case The Enemy is watching ha ha ya never know!!!!. I have found the case law you mentioned and just for everyone's benefit I found the following site if googled invaluable

CHECK-MY-DEBT Live a Debt Free Life - Case Law Links

Not sure on my defence part wether I reiterate what i said in court and wether to volunteer my husband as a witness if required. Also uncertain as to how I present the info and wether to sell myself as the law abiding citizen I am ?????

If ok with you I will email you later with what I have put together overnight . Cant tell you how grateful I am for your support oops I just did x

Sounds like a plan to me!

Here's a link to a site that gives you an idea of how you should set out and what should be included in a closing submission, HERE

 

I think it would be best to just stick to the facts that you've been permitted to address, judges hate having reams of paperwork to trawl through just to get to the bones of the matter. Keep it short but concise and you won't go far wrong

 

I'm going out for a few hours this evening but I'll be around on and off if you need owt.

[maroondevo52]

Thread moved to Legal Issues Forum.