Sons Phone Stolen! £500 Worth Of Calls To Romania On A £15 Per Month Contract!!!

[exasperated]

My sons phone was stolen/lost, he doesnt know which. Unfortunately it picked up by someone who preceded to call somewhere in Romania rattling up a £500 bill. T Mobile refuse to refund any of the charges despite it being a £15 per month contract.

Do we have any recourse?

[cerberusalert]

Moved to telecoms forum.

[exasperated]

Cerb,

You work hard for this forum, thanks for this

[exasperated]

I should add that in fact we have crime number for this offence, so it should be considered stolen rather than lost.

Therefore how can T Mobile get away with m aking a profit on a crime, any input would be appreciated

[alfwithhair]

Their argument would be if you reported the loss to the police, why didn't you inform t-mobile, they would have barred the sim preventing any calls

[exasperated]

The theft was reported after the calls were made ALF, do you think that a £15 permonth contract should be able to rattle a bill of £500 and furthermore why should T Mobile retain the profit from a crime.

I want to know whether this is legal

Thanks

[phoenix11]

Presumably there was no credit limit block on the account?

 

eg, I have a £15 per month contract and a credit limit of £75 (I think - it was £50).

 

I think you may have to push to negotiate with TMob and maybe ask why they allowed the phone to be used to run up that kind of a bill suddenly to overseas calls.

 

Failing that, will your home insurance cover it at all?

[alfwithhair]

Is this a sim only contract?

Or is it a £15 a month phone contract?

[Human Writes]

Not going to be what you want to hear but you are liable for the call charges, your contract makes this quite clear.

 

You may be able to negotiate a waiver of these charges or a discount from T-Mobile but that will depend on their goodwill.

[buzby]

A discount of around 20% to 30% is about all you can expect. T-Mobile are not 'profiting' from crime, as the discount will reflect this - the balance goes to the foreign network who delivered the call, and should get paid for their services.

 

Whether lost or stolen, it doesn;t really matter - he should either protect his interests by using the provided security measures (PIN protection) or in the absence of this, an insurance policy. It is a hard lesson to learn, but a valuable one.

[locutus]

Presumably there was no credit limit block on the account?

 

eg, I have a £15 per month contract and a credit limit of £75 (I think - it was £50).

 

I think you may have to push to negotiate with TMob and maybe ask why they allowed the phone to be used to run up that kind of a bill suddenly to overseas calls.

 

Failing that, will your home insurance cover it at all?

 

Just to add, the credit limit is for T-Mobile's benefit, not the customers, and after a few months of being a good payer, the limit will be raised or even removed.

 

You are liable for all calls before you report it to T-Mobile.

 

Keep civil and polite... any discount is going to be down to T-Mobiles goodwill.

 

Remember that this needs to be paid quickly else it will be a negative mark on the credit file of whoever agreed to the contract.

[exasperated]

Hi All,

Thanks very much for everyone's input. In answer to the questions raised:

• The bill has already been paid by direct debit
  
• It was a Sim only contract
  
• It did have a credit block but as my son has had the contract for a while and been a good payer the limit was in excess of what calls were made
  
• T Mobile have already refused to offer any discount or should I say refund, probably because its already been paid
  

Any further suggestions welcome

[Human Writes]

Your options are say nothing and accept T-Mobile's position or you can escalate your complaint within T-Moblile to the highest level possible using their code of practice to guide you, this should be on their website. If you reach deadlock with them then you can seek independent arbitration of your dispute or you can go through the courts.

 

I don't think that you would stand much change of winning either via arbitration or the courts though.

[exasperated]

T Mobile can not justify making any profit whatsoever from this even if it is £20, and that will be the basis of my complaint.

Thanks for you comments

[locutus]

Your options are say nothing and accept T-Mobile's position or you can escalate your complaint within T-Moblile to the highest level possible using their code of practice to guide you, this should be on their website. If you reach deadlock with them then you can seek independent arbitration of your dispute or you can go through the courts.

 

I don't think that you would stand much change of winning either via arbitration or the courts though.

A point not made here though is that arbitration will cost T-Mobile money. Following their "Code of Practice" and stating that the complaint will go to arbitration may just be the kick up the bum that they need.

 

T Mobile can not justify making any profit whatsoever from this even if it is £20, and that will be the basis of my complaint.

Thanks for you comments

I'm with you that they should not profit. This is why they normally give a little discount in the region that Buzby posted.

 

Just to be a little annoying and pedantic (what moi?) can I ask is it the sim only 30 day rolling contract or the 12 month one? If it's the 30 day, get your son to get his PAC aswell, The department that deals with that sort of thing commonly have the ability to give discounts etc. (although I feel your son will probably move network anyway given this bill!)

[exasperated]

A point not made here though is that arbitration will cost T-Mobile money. Following their "Code of Practice" and stating that the complaint will go to arbitration may just be the kick up the bum that they need.

 

 

I'm with you that they should not profit. This is why they normally give a little discount in the region that Buzby posted.

 

Just to be a little annoying and pedantic (what moi?) can I ask is it the sim only 30 day rolling contract or the 12 month one? If it's the 30 day, get your son to get his PAC aswell, The department that deals with that sort of thing commonly have the ability to give discounts etc. (although I feel your son will probably move network anyway given this bill!)

 

Hi loc,

Its a 12 month contract,

OUR PROBLEM IS THAT ITS A LOT MORE DIFFICULT TO NEGOTIATE WITH PEOPLE WHEN THE INVOICE IS PAID:mad:

[locutus]

Yes, I agree BUT at least no-ones credit file is going to get fried!

 

Keep at them, google "t-mobile code of practice" and follow the complaints procedure highlighted there, and make it clear what you would accept as an outcome.

[goodwill]

hi exasperated,

not much to add but here's some background on how the networks protect themselves.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-3042733.html

 

I find the whole issue of networks continually using these situations to profit from morally indefensible and legally questionable.

 

Very often the loss they claim the customer is liable for only exists on paper.

 

Just out of interest what were the Romanian phone numbers. If they are used to bill for international premium rate services for example then it is very likely T-mobile has lost no money.

[exasperated]

Hi Loc,

I have written to T Mobile, I will let you know what happens

Regards

[exasperated]

hi exasperated,

not much to add but here's some background on how the networks protect themselves.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-3042733.html

 

I find the whole issue of networks continually using these situations to profit from morally indefensible and legally questionable.

 

Very often the loss they claim the customer is liable for only exists on paper.

 

Just out of interest what were the Romanian phone numbers. If they are used to bill for international premium rate services for example then it is very likely T-mobile has lost no money.

 

Hi GW,

We dont know what the numbers were, however despite the facts that certain procedures were not followed I still maintain and agree with you that it is indefensible that T Mobile retain any profit from what clearly is a crime.

On behalf of my son I am going to take this up fully and will cause as much inconvenience to T Mobile until they concede or we reach a dead end.

Thanks

[goodwill]

I think the first thing I would do is insist T-mobile supply a fully itemised bill of these calls. dates/durations/costs.

 

It would be interesting to see if the calls were to ordinary Romanian domestic numbers or a premium rate service that was using 'Romanian' numbers to bill to.

 

In other words were the calls being made to a company that T-mobile had a revenue share billing agreement?

[exasperated]

GW,

How would I find that out?

[goodwill]

it would be almost impossible to find the companies in the revenue chain if the numbers were international premium billing numbers.

 

this is how some of the numbers start(40 is the Romanian dialling code)

 

 

Romania 3 40.338 VOICE/ADULT

Romania 375 40.3375 VOICE/ADULT

Romania 385 40.3385 VOICE/ADULT

Romania 4 40.312 VOICE/ADULT

 

It's equally likely the numbers on your bill will be numerous unrelated domestic if the thief/thieves were just using it to phone home but it would be interesting to see if the call patterns indicated (AIT) Artificially Inflated Traffic or similar.

[exasperated]

GW,

The majority of the numbers start with 4073, one which lasted an hour exactly cost £66:evil: