unknown RWay CCJ for Cap1 card at old Address - already paid NCO!! **SET ASIDE**

[diddydicky]

thanks for that info

 

as far as the "change of name " is concerned- i think it was stated originally that the company was dissolved or some such

if the new company has a different company number then it is a separate legal entity and cannot simply take over the assets of the defunct company informally

 

you need to check the formation date of the new company against the dissolution date of the old one (unless it WAS simply a name change of the existing company) and then refer any assignment dates

 

once the old company ceased to exist it then no longer was able to transact company business

[Jossy]

I received my SAR information from Capital One yesterday, and it makes interesting reading.

 

It appears they have sent me everything they have,

as there are copies of letters sent between both parties going back to 2002.

 

 

However, in their covering letter it reads

"I acknowledge the change of your address, but I'm not able to ammend your details as your account was sold to Robinson Way."

 

at first it would appear that I have indeed, paid the wrong DCA.

However, in the statement pages they have enclosed, it lists every payment I ever made on the account starting from when I was paying them (Capital One), to the very last payment I ever made on it, which was 4/3/09 (my bank statement says the money was taken 25/2/09).

 

 

It does not say on the statement who the payment was made to,

although if they have statements for every payment made you would assume that it was to them.

Which is confusing because since 2005 I had been paying NCO Europe.

 

 

Maybe someone can enlighten me,

but I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that when a DCA took over a debt,

the original creditor sold it for a reduced amount and as far as they were concerned, that was it.

 

 

By reading these statements, it would appear that every payment I made to NCO, showed up on a Capital One statement a few days later??

 

This is good for me in one aspect as it is further proof that the debt has been paid

- on the last sheet it reads "new balance 0.00. PAYMENT RECEIVED -- THANK (sic)".

 

 

it conflicts with the covering letter stating they sold it to Robinson Way

(which according to them was back in 2007),

because the recipient of all payments made was NCO,

they must have still been in contact with each other.

 

I hope that's not too confusing folks,

it's the best way I could describe what I received.

 

 

I'd be interested to hear your opinions.

Is it possible Capital One have sold the debt to two DCA's??

And have continued to take payment from one,

whilst the other chases me for it also??

 

 

I have yet to receive my SAR from Robinson Way, maybe that will shed some light on it.

 

Incidentally,

amongst the info I got was all the correspondance regarding my change of address which Robinson Way claimed they had no way of knowing or finding out.

 

 

I guess when they took over the account they didn't look very hard.

Just a lame excuse to issue a CCJ against me without me knowing it had been done.

 

What do you reckon guys??

[unclebulgaria67]

I think you should send a letter to the Capitol One complaints department asking for a full explanation of what has happened to your account. Tell them you have received details following a Data Pro subject access request and have noted the following events in chronological order. Then list the history of the account and query the accuracy of information you have been provided with by Capitol One and debt companies dealing with the account. Send a copy of your letter to Robinson Way.

 

NCO obviously just had the account assigned to them to collect, so they earned a commission or fee, related to the amount collected. Why Robinson Way, have then also been allowed to get involved in this, I have no idea. Capitol One will have to explain.

[diddydicky]

many debt collectors are acting FOR the OC and have not "bought" the debt

[unclebulgaria67]

many debt collectors are acting FOR the OC and have not "bought" the debt

 

But TWO DCA's at the same time, when collections are already on going through one of them? Sounds like a total *alls up.

[Jossy]

I agree, it does sound like a *alls up. I think i will write them a letter, but i am going to wait and see what turns up when I get my info back from Robinson Way first. Hopefully more ammunition for me to use against them.

[diddydicky]

common

[The GodMother]

itsd also against the OFT guidelines on debt recovery. I would advise that a complaint is made to the OFT in relation to all 3 companys.

[Bazooka Boo]

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/contact

[Jossy]

Hello everyone

 

Well I finally received my long awaited SAR reply from Robinson Way and it is ..............pathetic.

It is 8 pages long (one of which is a covering letter).

4 pages are a "narrative listing for specific customer" which is all written in abbreviations and codes making it very difficult to understand,

and the final 3 pages are copies of 3 emails sent from R Way to Capital One between 29th and 30th April 2010.

 

 

The names of the people in the emails have been blacked out due to "third party data"

(is that allowed in a SAR??).

 

The first thing of note that jumps to mind is where are all the copies of the letters that they allegedly sent to my previous address advising me that they were now the owners of the debt, and that if I didn't pay then they would take me to court?

 

 

Either they didn't send them in the first place,

making the CCJ illegal,

or they have failed to include them in the SAR, also illegal.

There is no copy of the CCA either.

 

One of the email replies from Capital One to Robinson Way does state the following

"all the payments have come via NCO.

they've (sic) all been labelled with the correct ref# etc

so i'd be positively flabbergasted if the money has nt (sic) originated from him.

 

 

it (sic) was~£50 per month being paid direct to us then switched to coming from NCO May 08. no (sic) idea why. it (sic) was placed with nco jun05-sept06 (sic)"

 

Apart from condradicting themselves

(ALL the payments from NCO, then

"being paid direct to us then SWITCHED to NCO"),

this is untrue.

I have only, as stated so many times on this thread, paid NCO.

 

This is also the first time Capital One have acknowledged NCO.

In their SAR response they were not mentioned once.

And that, people, is basically it.

 

 

Any advice for my next move?

Do I now gather all my information and seek help from a sollicitor?

is it really starting to look like Capital One are the root cause of all these problems?

Have Robinson Way deliberately left out chunks of information to hinder my own investigation?

 

Your thoughts and advice, as always, much appreciated.

 

Jossy

[unclebulgaria67]

Refer to my post #49

 

It is CapOne that will need to answer for this.

 

If they don't get a solicitor involved.

[The GodMother]

Hello everyone

 

Well I finally received my long awaited SAR reply from Robinson Way and it is ..............pathetic. It is 8 pages long (one of which is a covering letter). 4 pages are a "narrative listing for specific customer" which is all written in abbreviations and codes making it very difficult to understand, and the final 3 pages are copies of 3 emails sent from R Way to Capital One between 29th and 30th April 2010. The names of the people in the emails have been blacked out due to "third party data" (is that allowed in a SAR??).

 

The first thing of note that jumps to mind is where are all the copies of the letters that they allegedly sent to my previous address advising me that they were now the owners of the debt, and that if I didn't pay then they would take me to court? Either they didn't send them in the first place, making the CCJ illegal, or they have failed to include them in the SAR, also illegal. There is no copy of the CCA either.

 

One of the email replies from Capital One to Robinson Way does state the following "all the payments have come via NCO. they've (sic) all been labelled with the correct ref# etc so i'd be positively flabbergasted if the money has nt (sic) originated from him. it (sic) was~£50 per month being paid direct to us then switched to coming from NCO May 08. no (sic) idea why. it (sic) was placed with nco jun05-sept06 (sic)"

 

Apart from condradicting themselves (ALL the payments from NCO, then "being paid direct to us then SWITCHED to NCO"), this is untrue. I have only, as stated so many times on this thread, paid NCO.

This is also the first time Capital One have acknowledged NCO. In their SAR response they were not mentioned once.

 

And that, people, is basically it. Any advice for my next move? Do I now gather all my information and seek help from a sollicitor? is it really starting to look like Capital One are the root cause of all these problems? Have Robinson Way deliberately left out chunks of information to hinder my own investigation?

 

Your thoughts and advice, as always, much appreciated.

 

Jossy

 

I would write back asking for ALL the information they hold on you. Reminding them that the Information Commissioners office will be recieving a complaint from you if they do not supply.

 

Ask them where the letters sent to your previous address are and where the CCA, Dn and other stuff is.

 

Also put in this letter if you cant supply this the please could you advise why they lied to you about sending all this info in the first place.

[Jossy]

If I write to them, do I wait a couple of days so that there is no way they can reply within the original 40 day limit

( I assume the clock is still ticking from my original letter),

thus enabling me to report them for taking too long regardless of whether they can supply copies or not??

 

 

A dirty trick maybe, but not in the league of issuing a CCJ against me at an old address when the information of my address change was in my file from Capital One.

 

And sorry to be naive, but what is the Dn?

I want to make sure I include everything.

 

I do want to write to CapOne as well,

but I'm undecided yet as to wether to write before I get a solicitor involved or not.

[unclebulgaria67]

Robinson way are just a DCA that operate with very limited information, so any SAR will reveal very limited information.

 

It is really only the original creditor CapOne, that will have the full information. I note you have the SAR info, so start to go through the information and write down all the points which you think are valid to be raised. Then you can then decide whether to write yourself first or see a solicitor.

 

DN is Default Notice, which they have to issue when the account was in default and is a requirement of the CCA.

[Jossy]

Hi everyone, here is a summary of the latest chapter of this appalling saga.

 

After much debate, I decided to write to Robinson Way.

 

 

I know they won't have as much info as the origianl creditor (cap one),

but it is they who have issued, unfairly, the CCJ against me and claim I still owe them money

 

 

I thought ruffling their feathers would at the very least give me some satisfaction and could possibly result in them incriminating themselves further.

 

Their response to my SAR request did not contain copies of any of the letters they claimed to have sent to my previous address, or even any of the letters they have since sent to my current one.

 

 

These were, amongst others,

Notice of assignment,

default notice,

offers of settlement etc

(all of which they have claimed they originally sent).

 

 

I also asked for the copy of the original CCA.

I am aware there is much debate that this has to be requested separately,

but during research for this I discovered that the copy that cap one sent in their response to my SAR, was in fact only a copy of the application form and cannot be used in court.

 

 

Therefore, being as they couldn't produce it I knew that Robinson Way would have no chance.

 

I threatened to report them to all the relevant authorities if they failed to produce these documents under the terms of the SAR, and the fact that their continued harassment is totally illegal if they never sent or owned these documents to begin with. I also reminded them that they had until the 31st August to get them to me.

 

A couple of days after the deadline passed, I received a letter from the "delightful" Rebecca Cooper stating that they have fullfilled their SAR request requirements and will not be sending anything else.

They did , however, include a copy of the Notice of Assignment.

 

 

Now I'm no detective,

but it is obviously the most hastily put together forgery you could ever see,

just with the date changed to 29th Jan 2007.

 

 

The signature is ineligible and if they'd had it all along, why didn't they send it before?

Apart from it arriving after the forty day period, the most amusing part is that in 2007 they were called Robinson, Way and Company.

 

 

This letter however is under their new name of Robinson Way Limited, which they became on October 1st 2009. Can I now do them for FRAUD as well?

 

I am now going to report them for failure to produce these documents,

but being as I now know for sure they don't have them,

do I report it under the terms of the SAR not being responded to properly and within the time limit;

or

because of everything they have done to me since the CCJ they issued in March 2008 has been illegal (remember folks I do not owe a penny, debt long since paid to another company)

 

 

do I report them for serious breaches of regulations put in place to protect the consumer?

And who do I report them to?

 

 

I'm not sure if it's the OFT, FSA, Trading Standards and the Financial Ombudsman or all of them.

And do you report them by letter or telephone?

I'd really like to know if I can report them for fraud too, as mentioned above.

 

Sorry to ask so many questions, but I have almost compiled as much evidence as I can before I hand it over to a solicitor, and this part will probably be the last thing I do before I get the big guns involved.

 

As always, any advice is much appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Jossy.

[Bazooka Boo]

IMO you will need to make a formal complaint to the ICO about them and their failure to respond correctly to a SAR.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints.aspx

 

Give http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/contact a ring also, as they sit along side the OFT & TS so three birds with one stone there.

 

As for robbers way. just ignore them until the ICO/OFT/TS have investigated them.

[Jossy]

Okay thanks for that, will do it tomorrow.

[straftat]

fraud seems to be close to where Robbers way and horrible farrely like to sit obviously they have quite taken to the idea that they can re-create documents as and when

[Jossy]

Well I have now reported them to the ICO, OFT and Financial Ombudsman.

Took a bit longer than I expected,

due to the complicted nature of the case and the processes that have to be followed making an official report.

 

Consumer Direct/Trading standards didn't seem that interested,

instead insisted I try community legal advisory services.

 

 

Whilst these people may be able to help,

at this point I was/am more interested in making my complaints official.

 

The ICO have asked for copies of all my proof of their wrong doing,

in terms of their failure to respond to the SAR properly,

to which I have happily obliged.

 

The OFT are looking into the case,

but whether I will hear anything back from them really depends on how serious they think it is, and whether my complaint is just one amongst many against these crooks.

 

 

if anybody reading this has any kind of problem with RW, DO NOT hesitate to report them.

The more complaints they get, the more chance action will be taken to stop them.

 

 

For years these people have got away with trampling all over the law because people (us) have been unaware of our rights. Thanks to sites like this, we can fight them on level terms.

 

The Financial Ombudsman was very helpful, and are investigating immediately.

Fingers crossed everyone that I get the desired outcome.

 

One last point - shall I write to RW and warn them they have been reported to make them sweat a bit (they prob won't give a damn)? Or let it be a nice suprise for them?

 

Cheers everyone,

 

Jossy.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Why not take them to court for non-compliance with your SAR? You can seek an order to comply, and for damages at the Court's discretion. If RW haven't complied, they will lose. If they say they have complied, they'll have to own up to lying (and breaching the terms of their consumer credit licence), and explain themselves.

[unclebulgaria67]

Nice suprise I think. Once you have complained to some bodies, they don't want you to get in touch with the company the complaint is against, as they would want the opportunity to deal with them first.

[Seminole]

Why not take them to court for non-compliance with your SAR? You can seek an order to comply, and for damages at the Court's discretion. If RW haven't complied, they will lose. If they say they have complied, they'll have to own up to lying (and breaching the terms of their consumer credit licence), and explain themselves.

 

You can certainly do this and by the sound of this you have them bang to rights. However, one thing you should bear in mind is that a claim like this isn't necessarily going to be allocated to the small claims track and you could be exposed to costs if you lost.

 

My other concern is that they haven't supplied you with copies of letters they claim to have sent. My understanding is that they would only have to do so if they retained copies of the letters. Most DCAs use template letters for debt chasing and I think it would be sufficient for their systems to record that they had sent you such letters rather than provide you with personalised copies of the letters themselves.

[Jossy]

My other concern is that they haven't supplied you with copies of letters they claim to have sent. My understanding is that they would only have to do so if they retained copies of the letters. Most DCAs use template letters for debt chasing and I think it would be sufficient for their systems to record that they had sent you such letters rather than provide you with personalised copies of the letters themselves.

 

Seems a good point,

but what about the fact that when I wrote to them to tell them of the missing documents,

in their response (after the 40 day period) they sent a "copy" of the notice of assignment.

 

 

As I said in an earlier post,

it has so blatantly been knocked up at the time they wrote back.

If what you say is correct then why would they go to the lenghs of producing this "fake" if they only had to show proof that the letter was sent originally, and not a copy of it?

 

And surely if my "account" with them is still active (in their opinion), then they can't discard any documents from my file.

 

 

Their system records showing something has been sent cannot be sufficient as it does not disclose what was written in the letters? For all I, or anybody else knows, they could have said

 

Then again, it RW we're talking about, and who knows what goes through their minds??

 

I won't write to them again until I hear back from any of the organisations I've reported them to.

 

Thanks everyone.

[Jossy]

Hi everyone, just a small update on where I am with this nonsense.

 

All three organisations I reported RW to have responded, saying the matter is now being looked into. Fingers crossed.

 

Also, t

he other day I reported them to the Credit Services Association,

a regulator who RW are a member of.

 

 

Will be interesting to see if they back up their claim that they will sort out any wrong doing by one of their companies. Wondered if anybody on here knows anything or has had any experience with this organisation in the past?

 

Interestingly, NCO Europe (the DCA to whom the debt was paid in full) are also a member, and have pointed that out to them.

 

That's all for now.

 

Jossy.

[Seminole]

The CSA is a trade body for the debt collection industry. They are fundamentally useless when it comes to regulating the activities of their members.