Varde/Brachers claimform - MBNA card

[Mr-Pieman]

Hi Car,

I agree they haven't even stated how they are claiming the "debt" is it due to the Defendants Default, T&C who knows.

 

For example this is what they are basically saying

 

The Claimant claims the sum of £1000 assigned to the Claimant, the Defendant despite requests for payment has failed to satisfy the same.

 

Have they provided proof that £1000 is owed?

 

Have they provided a copy of the agreement?

 

How was it assigned?

 

Where are the T&C?

 

Is it a consumer debt?

 

Have the required statutory notices been sent?

 

Have arrears notices been sent?

 

Does the claimant have the right license to collect the debt?

 

Have they issued a notice of assignment?

 

Have they proof of service of same?

 

Is the amount in dispute?

 

Does the account have PPI?

The list continues.

 

Maybe your defence should be simply :-

 

1. I Smoothound of ADDRESS am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by VARDE.

 

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

3. The Defendant due to the vague and generic nature of the Claimants Particulars of Claim requested further information under CPR 31.14 Disclosure and Inspection.

 

4. The Defendant sent the Claimant a request under CPR 31.14 via Royal Mail Special Delivery (attached), the Claimant failed to respond to the request in the allocated time with the requested information. The Claimant has stated in letter dated blah (ATTACHED) that they do not need to supply documents until a defence is filed. The Defendant is unaware of any such rule or direction. The Defendant is aware of CPR 31.3 which gives the right to inspect any document disclosed; the Claimant in their particulars of claim has disclosed documents. The Claimants representative has stated they do not currently possess the documents to substantiate their claim.

 

5. The Defendant has made an application dated blah (ATTACHED) forcing the Claimant to disclose documents mentioned in their particulars of claim.

 

6. I respectfully ask the court to use its case management powers to order the Claimant to disclose all of the information requested within this defence document as it is vital to allow me the opportunity to defend this action properly and would be unjust and totally unfair to allow this action to continue without allowing me the opportunity to view the documents which form the basis of this claim.

 

7. I respectfully request the courts permission to submit an amended defence should the Claimant file a fully particularised Particulars of Claim and/or the Defendants application prove successful.

 

Statement of Truth

 

I SMOOTHHOUND, believe the above statement to be true and factual

 

Signed SMOOTH

 

Date BLAH

 

PM

[car2403]

Well I'm going to send my N244 in shortly asking the court to force them to disclose the documents I've asked for as advised already which have still not materialised. I'm not sure what I need to do about my defence which needs to be in by 5/2/12. I don't want to end up losing because I've not filed a defence!!

 

Common sense should prevail and the Court must consider the application before looking at the dates of the missed Defence submission.

 

UNLESS, the Court considers the application as frivilous, in which case they can dismiss it and then go on to say that you've missed the Defence date, so the Claimant is entitled to APPLY for Default Judgement. I've emphasised "apply", as they can't be granted Judgement without seeking it, so in either case, the application needs to have an 'in the alternative' statement, whereby correct directions are sought following the application hearing. So, "in the alternative, where the Court considers that the Claimants claim is correctly particularised and that no further documentation is required in disclosure of the claim, the Defendant suggests the following Directions..." sort of thing. You can then go on to give some dates for defence, response to defence, even try to get allocation to the small claims track at the application hearing, then dates for statements and supporting evidence to be exchanges, etc, etc.

 

The key is to be prepared for the Court to disagree with your (our! ) view of the claim, to seem reasonable in making an application because the other side isn't cooperating and furthering the over riding objective and to ensure you have what you need to defend. All of which you've pretty much got covered, from what I've seen so far.

 

I can't wait to see Brachers response to this application.

[Smoothound]

So my reading of the above Car is that:

 

I should send in my N244 as previously suggested but tag a bit on the bottom suggesting an new defence by date should they deem that the Claimant and his POC are fine and I am being awkward?

 

The more I think I'm understanding the whole court thing it comes back and moves the goal posts

 

I can see that I need to have all eventualities covered for obvious reasons but it's knowing what to say and how to say it that is quite hard for a complete beginner! The wording of everything is all above Joe Ordinary and it seems knowing not to write the wrong thing can mean the difference between a win or a loss!

[Smoothound]

Currently my N244 is:

 

"The Defendant by registered post requested copies of documents mentioned in the Claimants particulars of Claim the request was dated 15/11/11 and received upon 21/11/11. The Claimant has stated in a letter dated 22/11/11 that they only need to disclose documents after a defence is filed. The Defendant is unaware of any such rule or direction. The Defendant is aware of CPR 31.3 which gives the right to inspect any document disclosed, the Claimant in their particulars of claim has disclosed documents. The Claimants representative has stated they do not currently possess the documents to substantiate their claim. The Defendant believes that the claim is therefore vague and generic in nature.

 

The Defendant request the Court to enforce the Defendants CPR 31.14 request upon the Claimant. If the Claimant fails to supply said documents the Defendant requests the claimants case is struck out.

 

The Defendant requests costs for the Claimants failure to adhere to CPR 31.14."

 

Should/could I add a bit in the middle along the lines of the fact the same letter says that they will request and forward copies to me when they receive them but as time has moved on by a month and my extended defence date is approaching I felt I should ask the court to request the docs?

[car2403]

Currently my N244 is:

 

I think some more detail is needed in it - like this:

 

"The Defendant by registered post requested copies of documents mentioned in the Claimants particulars of Claim the request was dated 15/11/11 and received upon 21/11/11. The Claimant has stated in a letter dated 22/11/11 that they only need to disclose documents after a defence is filed. The Defendant is unaware of any such rule or direction. The Defendant is aware of CPR 31.3 which gives the right to inspect any document disclosed, the Claimant in their particulars of claim has disclosed documents. The Claimants representative has stated they do not currently possess the documents to substantiate their claim. The Defendant believes that the claim is therefore vague and generic in nature.

 

Why is the claim vague? What's missing? What I mean by that is which CPR is it not compliant with? Looks like it falls foul of a few things in CPR Part 16, to me. You'll need to make it clear which rules haven't been complied with, I think.

 

The Defendant request the Court to enforce the Defendants CPR 31.14 request upon the Claimant. If the Claimant fails to supply said documents the Defendant requests the claimants case is struck out.

 

Again, the bold bit - on what basis? Looks like CPR Part 3.4 to me, but make it clear in your statement which rule allows the Court to strike out.

 

The Defendant requests costs for the Claimants failure to adhere to CPR 31.14."

 

Is this small claims track? (Or will it be, when it's allocated?) If so, costs are limited, so might be worth removing this. Although, as it hasn't been allocated yet, this could work - I would just be wary of seeming to be seen to be (sic) trying your luck, here.

 

Should/could I add a bit in the middle along the lines of the fact the same letter says that they will request and forward copies to me when they receive them but as time has moved on by a month and my extended defence date is approaching I felt I should ask the court to request the docs?

 

Well, the result of this will be an application/directions hearing and I think you'll cover the details there, rather than everything being included in the application itself.

 

It's looking good, I think. As for my 'in the alternative' statement, it might be worth including Mr P's 'defence statement' at the top of the page, in case the application fails and you are required to enter a defence - at least if you do that, the Court can't say that you didn't submit a defence before the due date.

 

BTW, keep asking questions. Nothing you've asked has been silly/daft, and I know it's not easy doing this - I've been there - but where you're putting the work in on your own claim will pay off later down the line when you fully understand your own arguments and can present them effectively. It's not easy, but it gets easier, and once you've gone through this application process (where you can't win, but also can't lose your case) you will see that going to Court isn't so daunting as it seems right now. (Also BTW, did you read the links in my sig? Can seriously recommend the "intro to consumer credit litigation" link - it's a classic...)

[Smoothound]

Thanks Car

 

It seems like I ask a question and I get another 100 choices to make and another 100 things to read and understand

 

Getting late and my head is swimming but I will read a bit more before lights out of course!

[Smoothound]

As far as the struck out part goes I imagine I would use CPR 3.42c to give the court reason but I'm not sure on which parts of CPR16 would be valid? Something within 16.2 and 16.4 I think but I can't see anything particularly about documentation?

[car2403]

As far as the struck out part goes I imagine I would use CPR 3.42c to give the court reason

 

Exactly right

 

but I'm not sure on which parts of CPR16 would be valid? Something within 16.2 and 16.4 I think but I can't see anything particularly about documentation?

From 16.2:

 

16.2

 

(1) The claim form must –

(a) contain a concise statement of the nature of the claim;

 

(b) specify the remedy which the claimant seeks;

 

© where the claimant is making a claim for money, contain a statement of value in accordance with rule 16.3;

 

(cc) where the claimant’s only claim is for a specified sum, contain a statement of the interest accrued on that sum; and

 

(d) contain such other matters as may be set out in a practice direction.

and the Practice Direction:

7.3

 

Where a claim is based upon a written agreement:

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing,

 

Highlighted the bits I think applied, but really, all you are doing is pointing to the rule and asking the Court to review it - you may be asked to explain how the claim doesn't meet these requirements, but that seems fairly straight forward given it's lack of content.

[Smoothound]

Ammended N244

 

"The Defendant by registered post requested copies of documents mentioned in the Claimants particulars of Claim the request was dated 15/11/11 and received upon 21/11/11. The Claimant has stated in a letter dated 22/11/11 that they only need to disclose documents after a defence is filed. The Defendant is unaware of any such rule or direction. The Defendant is aware of CPR 31.3 which gives the right to inspect any document disclosed, the Claimant in their particulars of claim has disclosed documents. The Claimants representative has stated they do not currently possess the documents to substantiate their claim. The Defendant believes that the claim is therefore vague and generic in nature as per CPR 16.2 and CPR 7.3.

 

The Defendant request the Court to enforce the Defendants CPR 31.14 request upon the Claimant. If the Claimant fails to supply said documents the Defendant requests the claimants case is struck out as per CPR 3.42c"

 

When you mention using Mr-P's defence did you mean the first or 2nd one. I personally think the second but happy to be wrong

[car2403]

2nd one

[Smoothound]

Should I fill out my defence form that came with the Claim documents or just enclose my defence with the N244? I ask because it asks if I'm disputing the claim wholly of part of etc. etc. so I'm unsure how to fill it it? I'm assuming I just put I am disputing it and allow a defence similar to Mr-P's to substantiate it? Do I need to put the defence on the actual form as I'd rather print it as my writing is not the best!

 

Also I just thought do I need to supply 4 copies of the N244 as well as my letter and Brachers reply? If so I assume photocopies will be fine for 3 of them and one genuine signed copy?

Edited December 27, 2011 by Smoothound

[Smoothound]

Anyone? I'd like to get it all off in the post today if I can

[car2403]

Should I fill out my defence form that came with the Claim documents or just enclose my defence with the N244?

 

Enclose with the N244. Just check it's formatted correctly and obviously stated it's a Defence on the front sheet. (See the template library, or the many defences posted around the forum if you're unsure)

 

I ask because it asks if I'm disputing the claim wholly of part of etc. etc. so I'm unsure how to fill it it?

 

Right now, anything that isn't disputed is admitted, so you defend the whole claim until it's particularised correctly.

 

I'm assuming I just put I am disputing it and allow a defence similar to Mr-P's to substantiate it?

 

Exactly.

 

Do I need to put the defence on the actual form as I'd rather print it as my writing is not the best!

 

See above

 

Also I just thought do I need to supply 4 copies of the N244 as well as my letter and Brachers reply? If so I assume photocopies will be fine for 3 of them and one genuine signed copy?

 

You need 4 of everything - photocopies are fine (don't send the original letter) but you will need the original at the hearing, if there is one.

[Smoothound]

Thanks Car,

 

Right I'll just put my defence as per Mr-P's 2nd one above modified on a sheet of A4 then rather than faff around filling in the claim attachment

 

Yeah I've photocopied my letter and the Brachers reply but was unsure whether I needed to put additional copies of the N244 in as well?

 

Sorry! Just had another thought!

 

As my defence will list my letter and Brachers reply will I need to attach further copies to it? If so is one copy of each sufficient or will I need to do 4 copies of each letter and the defence statement? If I just used the Claim document there would only be one copy of my statement obviously?

Edited December 28, 2011 by Smoothound

[Smoothound]

How I've done my defence currently, top line is in bold and underlined. I'm just off to see if I can find the defence statement template.

 

 

Defence Statement of Mr ************ Claim No *********

 

 

1. I **** *********** of *** ******** *****, am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by Varde Investments (Ireland) Ltd.

 

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

3. The Defendant due to the vague and generic nature of the Claimants Particulars of Claim requested further information under CPR 31.14 Disclosure and Inspection.

 

4. The Defendant sent the Claimant a request under CPR 31.14 via Royal Mail Recorded 1st Class dated 15/11/11 (attached), the Claimant failed to respond to the request in the allocated time with the requested information. The Claimant has stated in letter dated 22/11/11 (attached) that they do not need to supply documents until a defence is filed. The Defendant is unaware of any such rule or direction. The Defendant is aware of CPR 31.3 which gives the right to inspect any document disclosed; the Claimant in their particulars of claim has disclosed documents. The Claimants representative has stated they do not currently possess the documents to substantiate their claim.

 

5. The Defendant has made an application now/12/11 (attached) forcing the Claimant to disclose documents mentioned in their particulars of claim.

 

6. I respectfully ask the court to use its case management powers to order the Claimant to disclose all of the information requested within this defence document as it is vital to allow me the opportunity to defend this action properly and would be unjust and totally unfair to allow this action to continue without allowing me the opportunity to view the documents which form the basis of this claim.

 

7. I respectfully request the courts permission to submit an amended defence should the Claimant file a fully particularised Particulars of Claim and/or the Defendants application prove successful.

 

Statement of Truth

 

I ****** ************, believe the above statement to be true and factual

 

 

 

Signed

[Smoothound]

Is it just me who finds the templates impossible to find?

 

I've done search after search and come up with nothing at all?

 

Skimmed through a good few threads but none with any defence statements contained within them

[Smoothound]

On more reading I've now altered my defence statement to the following:-

 

 

Claim number – ******

 

Between

 

Varde Investments (Ireland) Ltd - Claimant

 

And

 

Mr *********** - Defendant

 

Defence

 

1. I ******** of *********************, am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by Varde Investments (Ireland) Ltd.

 

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

3. The Defendant due to the vague and generic nature of the Claimants Particulars of Claim requested further information under CPR 31.14 Disclosure and Inspection.

 

4. The Defendant sent the Claimant a request under CPR 31.14 via Royal Mail Recorded 1st Class dated 15/11/11 (attached), the Claimant failed to respond to the request in the allocated time with the requested information. The Claimant has stated in letter dated 22/11/11 (attached) that they do not need to supply documents until a defence is filed. The Defendant is unaware of any such rule or direction. The Defendant is aware of CPR 31.3 which gives the right to inspect any document disclosed; the Claimant in their particulars of claim has disclosed documents. The Claimants representative has stated they do not currently possess the documents to substantiate their claim.

 

5. The Defendant has made an application NOW/12/11 (attached) forcing the Claimant to disclose documents mentioned in their particulars of claim.

 

6. I respectfully ask the court to use its case management powers to order the Claimant to disclose all of the information requested within this defence document as it is vital to allow me the opportunity to defend this action properly and would be unjust and totally unfair to allow this action to continue without allowing me the opportunity to view the documents which form the basis of this claim.

 

7. I respectfully request the courts permission to submit an amended defence should the Claimant file a fully particularised Particulars of Claim and/or the Defendants application prove successful.

 

Statement of Truth

 

I *************, believe the above statement to be true and factual

 

 

 

Signed

 

 

I've removed all underlining and bold type and changed the header!

 

I've now done 4 copies of the N244. Do I need to enclose any copies of the letters referenced in the defence as there are already copies going with my N244 request in the same envelope?

[car2403]

Yeah I've photocopied my letter and the Brachers reply but was unsure whether I needed to put additional copies of the N244 in as well?

 

You will, you need enough copies of everything

 

As my defence will list my letter and Brachers reply will I need to attach further copies to it? If so is one copy of each sufficient or will I need to do 4 copies of each letter and the defence statement? If I just used the Claim document there would only be one copy of my statement obviously?

 

The right way to do it is to attach the letters as exhibits, number them accordingly, then refer to them by exhibit number in the statement. TBH, as you're a litigant in person, you'll get away with not formatting/attaching/referring to the documents in the common fashion - you just need to be sure to include everything, as missing documents would be excused.

 

How I've done my defence currently, top line is in bold and underlined. I'm just off to see if I can find the defence statement template.

 

 

Defence Statement of Mr ************ Claim No *********

 

 

1. I **** *********** of *** ******** *****, am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by Varde Investments (Ireland) Ltd.

 

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

3. The Defendant due to the vague and generic nature of the Claimants Particulars of Claim requested further information under CPR 31.14 Disclosure and Inspection.

 

4. The Defendant sent the Claimant a request under CPR 31.14 via Royal Mail Recorded 1st Class dated 15/11/11 (attached), the Claimant failed to respond to the request in the allocated time with the requested information. The Claimant has stated in letter dated 22/11/11 (attached) that they do not need to supply documents until a defence is filed. The Defendant is unaware of any such rule or direction. The Defendant is aware of CPR 31.3 which gives the right to inspect any document disclosed; the Claimant in their particulars of claim has disclosed documents. The Claimants representative has stated they do not currently possess the documents to substantiate their claim.

 

5. The Defendant has made an application now/12/11 (attached) forcing the Claimant to disclose documents mentioned in their particulars of claim.

 

6. I respectfully ask the court to use its case management powers to order the Claimant to disclose all of the information requested within this defence document as it is vital to allow me the opportunity to defend this action properly and would be unjust and totally unfair to allow this action to continue without allowing me the opportunity to view the documents which form the basis of this claim.

 

7. I respectfully request the courts permission to submit an amended defence should the Claimant file a fully particularised Particulars of Claim and/or the Defendants application prove successful.

 

Statement of Truth

 

I ****** ************, believe the above statement to be true and factual

 

 

 

Signed

 

Looks fine to me, just format as per the library/templates

[Smoothound]

So far I have:

 

1xN244

4xMy CPR Doc request 2 Brachers

4xBrachers reply to above

1xDefence Statement

 

What I think I need to send is

 

4xN244

8xMy CPR Doc request 2 Brachers

8xBrachers reply to above

4xDefence Statement

 

Is this correct? I guess too many is not a problem Do I need to include a covering letter or just the N244 and Defence Statement and relevant documents?

 

 

I looked round some threads and that is how the Defence Statements seemed to be formatted. I couldn't find an actual template anywhere

Edited December 28, 2011 by Smoothound

[citizenB]

You need to have 3 "bundles" which includes everything - one for the court, one for you and one for the opposition. Plus one spare copy JIC

 

HTH

[Smoothound]

You need to have 3 "bundles" which includes everything - one for the court, one for you and one for the opposition. Plus one spare copy JIC

 

HTH

 

Thanks

 

So if I make them into bundles then I will only need 4 of each then? Unless I decide to send the N244 first then send the Defence Statement later?

 

Could you comment on the Defence Statement format above? It looks the same as others I've seen in threads but I've not found a template so don't want to get it wrong!!

[citizenB]

Thanks

 

So if I make them into bundles then I will only need 4 of each then? Unless I decide to send the N244 first then send the Defence Statement later?

 

Could you comment on the Defence Statement format above? It looks the same as others I've seen in threads but I've not found a template so don't want to get it wrong!!

 

5. The Defendant has made an application now/12/11 (attached) forcing (obliging) the Claimant to disclose documents mentioned in their particulars of claim.

 

The only change I would make is shown above.

 

There isnt a template defence as such because each is so different and personal to a particular case. It has also been known for someone to copy another defence without taking great care to ensure that dates and other important issues have been amended.

 

If you are sending the N244 application in separately you will need 3 copies I think. One the court keeps, one they stamp and return to you and one they send on to the opposition.

 

 

It is always best to have a "spare" set anyway.

 

When you receive your copy returned, stamped, attach a copy of that to each "bundle"

 

I am not sure why you would be sending the Application and defence separately though ? Does the defence statement not support your Application?

[Smoothound]

The only change I would make is shown above. Thanks

 

There isnt a template defence as such because each is so different and personal to a particular case. It has also been known for someone to copy another defence without taking great care to ensure that dates and other important issues have been amended.

 

I gathered that I was more meaning from a formatting/layout point of view as it has been mentioned a couple of times recently

 

If you are sending the N244 application in separately you will need 3 copies I think. One the court keeps, one they stamp and return to you and one they send on to the opposition.

 

 

It is always best to have a "spare" set anyway.

 

When you receive your copy returned, stamped, attach a copy of that to each "bundle"

 

Confused now! Do I need to have various bundles for each person I sent to the court kept here as well?

 

I am not sure why you would be sending the Application and defence separately though ? Does the defence statement not support your Application?

 

Point taken! Not thinking straight it's too early

 

 

Thanks again

[citizenB]

When you receive your copy returned, stamped, attach a copy of that to each "bundle"

 

Confused now! Do I need to have various bundles for each person I sent to the court kept here as well?

 

xx

 

This suggestion was made for the scenario where you said you were sending the Application separate from the Defence paperwork.

 

Aha.. layout.. right.. I have attached an example of one of mine for you to look at ..

 

And a pdf which shows the "look" better

 

 

IN THE NORTHAMPTON COUNTY COURT BULK CENTRE

 

 

Claim No: 12345

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BETWEEN:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

XXX BANK PLC

 

 

 

Claimant

 

 

 

 

 

And

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

CITIZENB

 

 

 

 

 

Defendant

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DEFENCE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. The Defendant is embarrassed by the lack of detail within the Claimants pleadings. Furthermore the Claimants disclosures made under the provisions of CPR 31.14 do not appear to support the Claimants pleaded case. The Defendant

 

 

 

reserves the right to replead should the Claimant disclose further information and documents relating to this matter.

 

 

 

 

CONTINUE WITH DEFENCE IN SIMILAR FASHION TO ABOVE….

 

 

 

 

 

Statement of truth

 

 

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this amended Defence are true.

 

Signed:

 

 

 

 

Date:

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32425[/ATTACH]

Edited December 29, 2011 by citizenB
personal info left on pdf ** blush**

[Smoothound]

Ah right! As I said it was early

 

Thanks again Citizen B