Intrum Justitia

[Newone]

Hi everyone I'm new on here so please forgive any mistakes I'm sure I'll learn pretty quickly....

 

I have a debt with Intrum Justitia. The original debt was with Mercantile Credit and has obviously been sold on. The agreement with MC was taken out before 2000 but I can't exactly remember when. Got into default when my now EX husband left me and I have been paying IJ ever since evn increasing payments when they wanted me too. However this debt is now taking a large part of my salary each month and IJ dont want to derease payments. What can I do? I have other debts which I am paying of as well and I'm not trying to just stop paying (I had the money, I need to pay it back etc bit of a principal but having read some threads am wondering if i'm a bit of a mug for doing so....)

Any help would be much appreciated

Thanks

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Firstly, some more details are needed ...

 

What kind of debt is this? Loan or credit card?

and I have been paying IJ ever since evn increasing payments when they wanted me too.

 

You shouldn't have been increasing payments to them, on their say so ... but let's deal with what can be done once you answer the question above. Then work from there.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Firstly, some more details are needed ...

 

What kind of debt is this? Loan or credit card?

and I have been paying IJ ever since evn increasing payments when they wanted me too.

 

f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments, or to

increase payments when they are unable to do so

 

You shouldn't have been increasing payments to them, on their say so ... As per the OFT guideline above but let's deal with what can be done once you answer the question above. Then work from there.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Firstly, some more details are needed ...

 

What kind of debt is this? Loan or credit card?

and I have been paying IJ ever since evn increasing payments when they wanted me too.

 

f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments, or to

increase payments when they are unable to do so

 

You shouldn't have been increasing payments to them, on their say so ... As per the OFT guideline above but let's deal with what can be done once you answer the question above. Then work from there.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Firstly, some more details are needed ...

 

What kind of debt is this? Loan or credit card?

and I have been paying IJ ever since evn increasing payments when they wanted me too.

 

f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments, or to

increase payments when they are unable to do so

 

You shouldn't have been increasing payments to them, on their say so ... As per the OFT guideline above but let's deal with what can be done once you answer the question above. Then work from there.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Firstly, some more details are needed ...

 

What kind of debt is this? Loan or credit card?

and I have been paying IJ ever since evn increasing payments when they wanted me too.

 

f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments, or to

increase payments when they are unable to do so

 

You shouldn't have been increasing payments to them, on their say so ... As per the OFT guideline above but let's deal with what can be done once you answer the question above. Then work from there.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Fantastic. I was unable to enter my post before, the page wouldn't refresh ... I had to log out, then back in, to find 5 duplicates of the first post I made.

[Newone]

Hi Cartaphilus,

 

debt was originally a loan with mercantile credit taken in my name only

 

Newone

[debt4get]

in that case you need to send for the cca agreement...copy letter below send signed for so you have proof they have received it

enclose a pound postal order do not sign the letter simply print name they have 12+2 working days to get agreement back to you if they dont then account will enter default and you need offer them no payment

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

Xxxxxxx

Xxxxxxx

Xxxxxx

Date xx/xx/xx

 

 

 

To Whom It May Concern:

 

Your Reference: Agreement Number:

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

With reference to the above account, I request that you send me a true copy of this Credit Agreement before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

This is my right under the legislation contained within Section 77 (1) and Section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and I am entitled to receive a copy of my Credit Agreement on request.

Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 Postal Order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my Credit Agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.

I also understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the Agreement under these sections of the Act.

In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER :

1. True copy of original Credit Agreement

2. Statement of Account

3. Copy of the executed Deed Of Assignment

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed Credit Agreement within 12 + 2 working days of a proper Consumer Credit Agreement request. If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original still exists and in what form (microfiche) etc

As you are aware, a Credit Agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

Further to the above, please ensure that any contact by you is made in writing only to the above address. Telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment - Administration of Justice Act 1970, Protection from Harassment Act 1997, and Communications Act 2003. If you continue to harass me by telephone I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine

I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit.

 

Yours faithfully

[ashmk]

Its your money.

If you want to decrease then tell them so. Theres nothing they can do about it. If they threaten court (and thats all it will be, a threat) then remind them of what a judge would think of them wasting the courts time because of their greed.

 

Take control of this, dont be afraid of them, they have no legal powers.

[harrassed senior]

As above, it is YOUR money YOU decide what you WILL pay them and they can threaten what they MAY do all they like.

 

Follow the advice above and you MAY be in for a pleasant surprise.

 

Many of the DCAS just get too greedy and end up making the alleged debtor question matters more deeply and in alot of cases THEY end up worse off (the DCAs).

 

Time to see if you can do this with any other alleged debts you may have.

[ashmk]

They are taking you for a mug. They have asked in the past to increase and you did so they see you as a soft target and will keep asking you.

[Newone]

Thanks everyone know I'm being silly but this is OK to do even though I've ben paying for the last 10 years? and should I keep paying while I'm waiting for their reply?

 

Newone

[UnitedFront]

As far as the law in concerned, you are entitled to request a copy of the credit agreement, pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, at any time (so long as you haven't already been furnished with a copy of it within the last 30 days if I remember correctly) regardless of whether or not you have been making payments.

 

On that basis, you are entitled to make the request as previously posted by debt4get and if you choose to do so and they do not comply within the 12 days prescribed by the Act (+2 days for postage) then the debt becomes unenforceable until such as time as they do comply.

 

As for the question of whether you should keep paying; this is totally and completely a personal decision. Many (the majority from what I can see) of caggers choose to stop making payments after the prescribed time limit is up if the company concerned fail to fulfil their obligations. Other caggers choose to keep paying.

 

Personally, I prescribe to the view of the former and always stop payments if the company go into default of a cca request.

 

Hope this helps.

Cheers

UF

[Newone]

Hi everyone, have finally taken the bull by the horns and will be posting letter to IJ in the morning..... Wish me luck!! hope you will be able to help with anything they come back with..

 

Newone

[Drexl Spivey]

Might want to send a subject access request too. 10 years of paying IJ ? , an S A R ought to make for some interesting reading .

[Halibutt]

Newone - don't forget that anything you send should be by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery and you should simply print your name rather than signing anything.

 

The only reason I am in dispute with DCAs is because of their unreasonable repayment demands. If they'd listened sympathetically, I'd still be paying them! Their loss...

 

Best of luck with this.

[2Grumpy]

IJ haven't neccessarily bought the debt - they might be collecting for the original creditor

 

Not sure what a SAR to IJ would show, but have you received a statement of account in the last year? Everyone should be receiving a statement every year.

[Newone]

hi everyone

have recieved a reply from IJ today.

 

Letter is as follows:-

 

"We regret that due to uncontrollable fators Intrum Justitia Ltd cannot provide a copy of your agreement or proof of assisgment due to the age of this outstanding account. We therefore return your payment of £1.00

 

Whilst we are not able to supply you with a copy of the signed agreement, the contractual relationship between the parties in relation to the credit agreement does, as a matter of fact, exist. The account reference number under which Barclays Bank plc opened the accoount was xxxxxxxxxxx. The account open date was the xxJuly 1998 and the loan was for £xx.xx. At the point the account was passed to us on the 4th October 1999 the outstanding balance was £xx.xx.

 

As held in the recent case of McGuffick v Royal Bank of Scotland Plc (2009) EWHC 2386 (comm) our rights are not extinguished as a reult of a breech of section 77 or 78 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974. the debt is not 'wiped out' and you remain contractually liable to pay any sums due under the Credit Agreement. We can still request payment from you, issue a Default Notice (if necessary) and pass details of your default to a credit reference agency.

 

Please find enclosed a breakdown of all payments that you have made, therefore acknowledging this debt to Intrum Justitia and payments mde to Barclays Bnk before we took over responsibility. These payments will follow with the words NOP. We cannot provide you with a breakdown of any payments that may have been made to Barclays before we took over responsibilty.

 

In light of the abov, we would urge you to continue with your payments, however if you have any further dispte or concerns please do not hesitate to contact me on 0151 472 7103."

 

the letter is signed by Mrs Tracey Smith, Quality and Compliance Suervisor

 

So folks where do I go from here?????

 

Diane

Edited July 27, 2010 by ScarletPimpernel
Remove identifying details

[Seminole]

Send them the account in dispute letter (from the templates section of this site) and stop paying them if you want to do so.

 

Has anyone already issued a default notice on this account?

[ScarletPimpernel]

The tone and content of their letter suggests that they realise that they cannot enforce the debt in court.

[UnitedFront]

Exactly, I love how they try and brutalise case judgments to meet their own desires by picking the bits they like and forgetting to mention the rest and, in my own personal opinion, in an attempt to harass and bully money from people by deceit.

 

With every day that passes, I think my loathing of these companies increases..... As said above, send the account in dispute letter, and keep us posted on any developments.

 

All the best

UF

[debt4get]

send them this

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Date:

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. This was signed for as delivered on the **DATE**

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE** (12+2 days after you made the initial request).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[Newone]

Hi everyone

 

hope you are all well and things are going ok for you.

 

posted the default letter to IJ last week and had a reply today contents below

 

"Thank you for your recent request for a copy of your Credit Agreement and statement of account.

As per my previous communication, whilst we are not able to supply you with a copy of the agreed credit arrangement, the contractual relationship between the paties in relation to the credit agreement does as a matter of fact exist. The account refernce number under which Barclays bank plc opened the account was xxxxxxxxxxx. the account open dte was 16th July 1998 and the loan was for £xxxxx.xx. At the point that the account was passed to us on the 4th October 1999 the outstanding balance was £xxxxx.xx

However although you entered into the agreement and used the funds obtained from Barclays in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 974 we will not be taking any further action to obtain repayment of the amount outanding."

 

I'm hopng this means what I think it means and they have written off the rest of my debt............. if so....

HURRAH!!!! Many many thanks to you all for the advice and letters to send. I'm very very grateful. It fells like a HUGE weight has been lifted

 

Many thanks once again

 

Newone x

[debt4get]

i would keep that letter very very safe...in case they sell it on to another lower in the food chain....but an excellent result....