advice needed regarding Disciplinary action and suspension

[Bigredbus]

The meeting you would attend would probably be an investigatory meeting and not a disciplinary hearing.

Provided you have absolutely no idea why you have been suspended, I would request that the meeting be postponed.

[andyford2000]

i was suspended for a breach of health and safety, which i have admitted. on the day inquestion I was working with a more experienced engineer who hasnt been suspended. They have already had an investigatory meeting, which i never had time to prepare for as I received a text message at 7pm asking me to attend warrington for 9am the following day.

 

so i think this must be for a disiplinary

[Bigredbus]

OK... thanks for the detail.

 

You have a defence there in which you were supposedly supervised by an experienced member of staff... were you?

[andyford2000]

not sure, i have been doing the job the longer than him, but havent done the special heights work before. I was trained in january and didnt do my first job until 13th May

[Bigredbus]

Was he in charge of the work/project? or were you?

[andyford2000]

i would say that it was a joint job, the thing that really gets me is, my boss new about this incident, weeks ago and still had me working on heights work since then

[andyford2000]

right been to Warrington for my meeting, it was a disciplinary after all, and the outcome was dismissal.

 

just a few things i need to run by people.

 

a) I was notified by text message that I was to be at our regional office for 9am the following with no explaination.

 

after regarding through some stuff from the acas website, i came acroos the following

It is not always necessary to hold an

investigatory meeting (often called a

fact finding meeting). If a meeting is

held, give the employee advance

warning and time to prepare.

 

so is this a breach

 

b) I was called today around 11am asking why I hadnt turned up for a meeting today at 10am. I explained that I hadnt been informed of this meeting and that I had had no correspondance from the company what so ever since thursday 24th. They were adamant it was sent. I was told i could go to office this afternoon, read the letter and corresponding documentation and it could be dealt with there and then.

 

now today is actually my scheduled day off, are they allowed to acually call me in for a disciplinary on my day off

 

c) they also produce a document that was descibed as Revisions to the disciplinary procedures regarding health and safety related disciplinaries, september 2009.

 

in that there is a section which reads "where an employee is found to have carried out work on a roof top without the appropriate equipment and/ or processes being followed, the likely outcome will be dismissal.

 

now i can honestly say that i have never ever seen that update until today.

[mariefab]

How long had you worked there?

 

Do you have a full copy of the document c)?

 

Were you informed of your right to be accompanied at the disciplinary hearing, either in advance or within the letter and cooresponding documentation mention at b)?

Edited June 28, 2010 by mariefab
Adding a question

[andyford2000]

I have worked for them for about 3years in total, we transfered over via TUPE over 2 years ago.

 

yes i now have a copy of the update as mention in above c)

[andyford2000]

bump

[andyford2000]

can i make a Subject Access Request request or similair to find out exactly what information is being held about me to use in an appeal

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

(a) Yes, you can send your employer a SAR. They will then have 40 days in which to comply...

 

(b) On the day of the incident, did your colleague follow procedures?

[andyford2000]

no he didnt, but they said at the end of the day it was my decision to do the job the way i did.

 

i will try and post the minutes from the meeting later on today.

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

And it was the very same way for your colleague... it was his decision to do the job the way he did, and still, has not been dismissed!

[andyford2000]

apparently they will be talking to him again as somethings he said didnt tally up with what i was saying. in the mean time he has continued to work.

 

I have said that I will be appealing, and putting in a grievence about my manager for bullying.

 

just need to find a way to copy text messages from my works mobile so i can use them as evidence.

 

i really think i have been stitched up at work over this whole matter

[honeybee13]

Hi Andy. I'm glad you're getting somewhere with this. I think you and BRB are making the same point, aren't you? That you seem to have been singled out for less favourable treatment than someone else who did the same thing.

 

If you have trouble copying the text messages, ask the guys on the IT forum, they're great.

 

HB

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

One question...

 

Have you been disciplined in the past, or been spoken to about misconduct or breached procedures? and has your colleague been disciplined, or been spoken to or breached procedures?

[andyford2000]

I have just received that dimissal letter from work today, am i right in thinking that I was supposed to sign the minutes and agree to them before leaving the company as these are not signed

[andyford2000]

quick summary of events and thoughts, would welcome peoples thoughts and if i am right in what I am thinking. total minefield this

 

Work Issues.

Thursday 24th June 2010

Manager texted; 6.22pm Hi Andy, I’ve been trying to call you, please be at AVC Warrington tomorrow morning at 0900, I’m not going to be on my phone a while so can you please text me to confirm you have received this and will be attending, thanks

First of all this was my day off and I had only one missed call from Paul during the day. I tried calling him various times and also texted him during the evening to find out why I was required to be there, was if for a meeting or training ?

On arrival in Warrington Friday 25th June 2010. I was met by Manager and informed I was there for an investigatory meeting.

If I am correct ACAS guideline stipulate that “It is not always necessary to hold an

investigatory meeting (often called a fact finding meeting). If a meeting is held, give the employee advance warning and time to prepare.”

After the meeting I was informed that this may led to further disciplinary action.

In the evening I tried to call Paul Rowlands to find out why I had not received any work for the following day, again he who not answer the phone or respond to my text messages. I have to contact another manager via text message who called me within 10minutes to say that I had been suspended until further notice.

I hadn’t received any communication directly from my manager or a company HR employee informing me of this.

Is this another breach in ACAS Guidelines ?

I had correspondence or communication from the company until 10.55am Monday 28th June 2010 when I received a telephone call from HR asking why I had attended a meeting schedule for 10am the same day. I informed them that I was still waiting to hear from them regarding the investigatory meeting and formal notice that I was suspended. He stated that I was sent a letter to my home address on Thursday 24th June 2010. I said I hadn’t received such letter, (surely they should have sent it recorded delivery, is this a breach in ACAS guidelines). I was then told I could come to the office, read the letter and have it dealt with there and then. I let them deal with matter there and then as I knew what the outcome was going to be. I was informed that I could have a work colleague there as a witness.

I would be right in thinking now, they have breach further ACAS Guidelines for not giving me ample time to form a defense case in relationship to the allegations.

To date I haven’t received formal notification of my dismissal.

Would this constitute unfair or wrongful dismissal on grounds of procedures not being followed

[andyford2000]

anyone, please

[andyford2000]

incidently the original invite to a dissaplinary came this, post mark dated 29th June, the following day I was dissemed. it didnt have all the evidence in that they produced at the hearing

[honeybee13]

Andy, while you're waiting for a guru to turn up, it could be worth noting what they've missed, as it could come in handy later.

 

HB

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

Unfortunately, and since April 2009 (new ACAS Code of Procedure), a failure to follow the Code does not, in itself, make a person or organisation liable to proceedings... However, an employment tribunal will take the Code into account when considering relevant cases. Tribunals will also adjust any awards made in relevant cases by up to 25% for unreasonable failure to comply with the Code...

[andyford2000]

it only had the letter of invite and the minutes from the investigatory meeting.

 

unlike the details i has handed before the dissaplinary meeting which had, the letter of invite, minutes from investigatory meeting, a safety Bulletin, and the revision to the dissaplinary proceedures dated september 2009

 

so if i had received that prior to the hearing, I certainly wouldnt of been prepared

[Bigredbus]

I know what you mean... but the question you must answer is...

 

Had the employer followed the correct procedures, would the award been any different?