Fault with car after 3 months

[Heretian]

Hi

 

Looking for a little advice. I bought a car on 1st April from a 2nd hand dealer in Peterborough.

 

At the time of purchase there was a small amount of noise during general driving which changed with speed which I took to be normal road noise caused by the budget tyres. Nothing sinister expected at the time but mentioned to dealer and he agreed it was probably just road noise.

 

Since then the noise has got worse. I contacted the dealership on monday to ask advise as I now suspected that the fault was a wheel bearing. They told me to take to their local garage who are approved by AA for the supplied 3 month AA warranty.

 

They have now confirmed a wheel bearing requires replacing at a cost of £227. The AA warranty firm was contacted but refused to pay out due to age of vehicle (6.5 years) and mileage (93k). I did not pay for repair and had it all put back together.

 

Contacted dealership today and asked for them to sort it out. Advised that manager of dealership on holiday until Tuesday (I knew this before he knew why I was calling so it is true) and my details were taken for a callback. The guy on the phone told me that any fault should be dealt with by the warranty and that if they wont cover it they have no responsibility.

 

I told him that this was not the case and that under the SOGA they are responsible for the car and I would like them to repair. He would not commit to anything until I speak with the manager.

 

Whilst the car was being inspected, I have been advised that there may be some noise and play from a front bearing in addition to the rear but difficult to tell as it is not very noticeable.

 

 

Can you please advise on my options and terminology I need to use? I do not want to pay for this as it is my opinion and that of the garage that this fault would have been present at time of sale and should have been picked up in inspections.

 

At this time I do not want to reject the car as it is suitable for my needs and if repaired is ideal for my family but if there is no satisfactory repair offered then I would consider it. Car is on a finance package with Close Motor Finance if it makes a difference.

 

No complaint has been made in writing yet and only contact has been over the phone. Dealership is across the road from the garage that inspected but they were closed yesterday when I was there due to football.

 

Many thanks

[rebel11]

Hi Heretian

 

Welcome to CAG

 

Here are a couple of links that may help

 

Vehicle Warranty Products

 

Service and Repair

 

Consumer Direct - Cars

some of the other guys will provide further advice

[sailor sam]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

As you seem to realise, you are protected by SOGA so you can forget about the 'warranty' for the time being. Having said that, it seems a good chance that the warranty was miss-sold anyway as it appears to exclude cars over a certain age and mileage.

 

Your first step would be to nicely explain to the nice man at the dealership that as far as you are concerned the fault was present at the point of sale and are they prepared to have the car back and put it right at no extra cost to you. If the nice man then becomes a bit arsey, inform him that in accordance with SOGA, you will be writing to him asking the same question as from then on all communication will be done in writing. Send him a letter (by recorded delivery) detailing the fault and what the AA garage have stated. State that under SOGA, you expect a repair at no cost to yourself and mention that the 'warranty' seems to have been miss-sold as it excludes you car because of itss age/mileage.

 

Conclude that in the event of him (the dealer) not responding within 7 days, you will assume that he is refusing to comply and as such you reserve the right to reject the car under SOGA where you will be requiring a full refund.

 

Do let us know how it goes after your telephone call.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[Conniff]

They have now confirmed a wheel bearing requires replacing at a cost of £227.

 

Obviously we must be talking Bentley or Ferrari here, where has the £200 part of the cost come from.

 

I do not want to pay for this as it is my opinion and that of the garage that this fault would have been present at time of sale

 

Faults that appear in the first six months are assumed to have been present at the time of sale.

 

I want to make a big point about the warranty. As Sam has pointed out, the warranty has been mis-sold and you must insist on a ful refund for it.

 

Is there any finance attached to the car?

[Heretian]

I did not pay for the warranty. It was included so I cannot go down a route of mis-sold for that one. The £227 was the quoted price from the AA approved garage to replace the rear drivers side wheel bearing (Apparently its all included in the hub) and I wish it was a Bentley. Sadly just an Audi A4 Avant 1.9Tdi.

 

There is finance attached to the car with Close Motor Finance. I did put it in the first post but its hidden in a paragraph.

[sailor sam]

I did not pay for the warranty. It was included so I cannot go down a route of mis-sold for that one. The £227 was the quoted price from the AA approved garage to replace the rear drivers side wheel bearing (Apparently its all included in the hub) and I wish it was a Bentley. Sadly just an Audi A4 Avant 1.9Tdi.

 

There is finance attached to the car with Close Motor Finance. I did put it in the first post but its hidden in a paragraph.

 

Your starting to loose it now. Whether you paid for the warranty or not is irrelevant. If it was offered as part of the deal and it excludes you car because of age/mileage then it was miss-sold.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[Heretian]

So you mean the entire deal was mis-sold rather than just the warranty? I took from the initial that it would only be the warranty rather than the car.

 

Thanks

[sailor sam]

So you mean the entire deal was mis-sold rather than just the warranty? I took from the initial that it would only be the warranty rather than the car.

 

Thanks

 

If the car was advertised as having a warranty then most likely it was. Check with trading standards to be sure.

 

In any event, I would first do as I suggest in my post #3. I would also make the finance company aware of the situation... including the warranty issue. I'm sure they will be interested.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[heliosuk]

I think you'd have a problem proving mis selling as the car came with a warranty and the OP didn't pay for it. What we need to remember is that the warranty is in addition to your statutory rights which is what applies here. If warranties are to work properley then they should become valid after 6 months which might then make them a bit more palatible!

 

However, going back to the post, wheel bearings would be a normal warrantable part and as such for the first 6 months needs to be covered by the dealer.

 

The repair price quoted seems about spot on as many of these items now come pre-fitted to the hub. It's the part price that hikes it as the labour is only an hour or so on a FWD car, if that.

 

It is possible to reduce that cost as most of these bearings are a standard size so it's possible to match if a) you can get the make and part number off the bearing and b) you have the dimensions.

 

If the part then costs more than £70 I'd be surprised.

 

Don't forget that with the OP's car it will include an ABS ring which is another reason why bearings come as part of the hub now unlike before.

[sailor sam]

I think you'd have a problem proving mis selling as the car came with a warranty and the OP didn't pay for it.

 

The OP states that the warranty co would not cover a car of this age and mileage so the warranty is completely useless. If the car was advertised as 'covered by a ex amount of months warranty', I would of thought that it was mis-advertised and consiquently mis-sold. You will note I suggest that the OP checks with trading standards.

 

What we need to remember is that the warranty is in addition to your statutory rights which is what applies here. If warranties are to work properley then they should become valid after 6 months which might then make them a bit more palatible!

 

Agreed.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[heliosuk]

The OP states that the warranty co would not cover a car of this age and mileage so the warranty is completely useless. If the car was advertised as 'covered by a ex amount of months warranty', I would of thought that it was mis-advertised and consiquently mis-sold. You will note I suggest that the OP checks with trading standards.

 

It's not stated either way Sam in the post. Irrespective of the warranty the fact remains that in this case it's the responsibility of the dealer and the warranty is largly irrelevant. TS advice is perhaps less comprehensive than what you'd get on this forum in reality. You can quote chapter and verse on SOGA, which I continually point out is not as clear cut as a lot of people think.

 

With regards to the issue in hand, the noise was pointed out at the time of sale and in some cases to actually define what is causing it only becomes apparent some time later and as I'm sure you know, wheel bearings just happen to fall into that catergory. So therefore it's a clear cut case where SOGA does apply.

[Conniff]

The repair price quoted seems about spot on as many of these items now come pre-fitted to the hub. It's the part price that hikes it as the labour is only an hour or so on a FWD car, if that.

 

I agree if half the car comes with it. What happened to replacing just the bearing, you can get an SKF for about £35.

[sailor sam]

Hi

 

Looking for a little advice. I bought a car on 1st April from a 2nd hand dealer in Peterborough.

 

At the time of purchase there was a small amount of noise during general driving which changed with speed which I took to be normal road noise caused by the budget tyres. Nothing sinister expected at the time but mentioned to dealer and he agreed it was probably just road noise.

 

Since then the noise has got worse. I contacted the dealership on monday to ask advise as I now suspected that the fault was a wheel bearing. They told me to take to their local garage who are approved by AA for the supplied 3 month AA warranty.

 

They have now confirmed a wheel bearing requires replacing at a cost of £227. The AA warranty firm was contacted but refused to pay out due to age of vehicle (6.5 years) and mileage (93k). I did not pay for repair and had it all put back together.

 

Contacted dealership today and asked for them to sort it out. Advised that manager of dealership on holiday until Tuesday (I knew this before he knew why I was calling so it is true) and my details were taken for a callback. The guy on the phone told me that any fault should be dealt with by the warranty and that if they wont cover it they have no responsibility.

 

I told him that this was not the case and that under the SOGA they are responsible for the car and I would like them to repair. He would not commit to anything until I speak with the manager.

 

Whilst the car was being inspected, I have been advised that there may be some noise and play from a front bearing in addition to the rear but difficult to tell as it is not very noticeable.

 

 

Can you please advise on my options and terminology I need to use? I do not want to pay for this as it is my opinion and that of the garage that this fault would have been present at time of sale and should have been picked up in inspections.

 

At this time I do not want to reject the car as it is suitable for my needs and if repaired is ideal for my family but if there is no satisfactory repair offered then I would consider it. Car is on a finance package with Close Motor Finance if it makes a difference.

 

No complaint has been made in writing yet and only contact has been over the phone. Dealership is across the road from the garage that inspected but they were closed yesterday when I was there due to football.

 

Many thanks

 

OPs original post with relevant bit about warranty exclusion high-lighted.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[Surfer01]

Why do people assume that a warranty is free. It is built into the price of the purchase therefore you are paying for the warranty regardless which makes it mis-sold as the warranty was an enticement to buy..

[sailor sam]

Why do people assume that a warranty is free. It is built into the price of the purchase therefore you are paying for the warranty regardless which makes it mis-sold as the warranty was an enticement to buy..

 

Exactly my point. If the car is subject to finance it's probably a condition that one is provided. Although in this case, I bet the finance co are unaware (as was the OP no doubt) that the warranty 'provided' by the dealer excludes the OPs car because of its age/mileage.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[heliosuk]

I think you are missing the point Sam. Unless it was a material fact that it was an enticement to buy then it has no relevance as this sort of issue (i.e. wheel bearing failure) would be covered under SOGA ( accuratly for once) with the dealer.

You don't know the full terms and conditions of the actual warranty.

 

I think it's best to let the OP pursuit this at this moment by taking it up with the garage directly when the manager returns. It's not a case that the car is going to fall apart or is dangerous at this moment in time.

[heliosuk]

I agree if half the car comes with it. What happened to replacing just the bearing, you can get an SKF for about £35.

 

I've changed one on mine this PM as was rumbling for a while and getting worse. ( did 6k miles on it though!) Manufacture quote was £189. Did it for £28 and 3 hours sat in the sunshine. Was nice to get hands dirty again and to prove to other half that "the tools you never use" actually do get used when you need them. No doubt the saving will be spent on yet more shoes, or a new unecessary hand bag...............

[sailor sam]

I think you are missing the point Sam. Unless it was a material fact that it was an enticement to buy then it has no relevance as this sort of issue (i.e. wheel bearing failure) would be covered under SOGA ( accuratly for once) with the dealer.

You don't know the full terms and conditions of the actual warranty.

 

I think it's best to let the OP pursuit this at this moment by taking it up with the garage directly when the manager returns. It's not a case that the car is going to fall apart or is dangerous at this moment in time.

 

Not really, from what the OP has said it would appear that the warranty excludes this fault due to it's age and mileage. That would suggest to me that the warranty probably excludes many other (if not all) other components with the car. However, I am fully with you on this being a dealer responsibility because (as you correctly point out), the fault has occured within 6 months of ownership and in was most likely evident at the point of sale. But, my guess is the car was advertised as having a warranty so whether the OP paid for it or not would be irrelevant. In my experience, when a used car is sold through finance, the compnay providing the funds normally insist on a warranty being provided. In these circumstances, I think the OP ought to inform the finance co of what is going on in case they have paid for a warranty which is useless.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[Heretian]

Have now spoken with the Manager who has said that the fault must have happened since point of sale. He was fairly friendly and helpful and said he would speak to the MOT station who tested the car the day before collection to check any advisories. Told me if there was an advisory then they would repair it. If not then it was my problem.

 

I have advised him that under SOGA he has a legal obligation to repair the car at his own cost.

 

I have hand delivered a letter yesterday stipulating that under SOGA I find the car of unsatisfactory quality and that as the car was bought less than 6 months ago the liability for the fault lies with the dealer.

 

Letter Sent :

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

RE: Faulty goods and the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)

 

On 1st April 2010 I bought an Audi A4 Avant 1.9Tdi XXXX XXX from you for £6995 which has stopped working as expected.

 

The problem is faulty rear driver’s side wheel bearing requiring replacement.

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) states that when a consumer buys goods from a trader they must be: as described; of a satisfactory quality; and fit for any purpose made known at the time of sale to the seller.

 

This legislation also states that the seller is legally obliged to sort out a problem if the goods do not meet these requirements.

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) says: if goods break within the first six months after purchase then there is a presumption the goods were faulty when sold.

 

My goods are not of satisfactory quality and I wish to claim a repair of my goods under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended.

 

Please respond to my complaint within 7 days from receipt of this letter.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Speaking with the manager this morning he has confirmed receipt of the letter and informs me he has passed it to his boss who will respond next week. He advises that if his boss wishes to repair as "an act of good faith" then they will but he disputes they have a legal obligation to do so.

 

I have also spoken directly with the MOT station who advised that if the bearing was faulty at point of sale they may not have noticed it as a worn bearing will only have play when it is in a serious condition. They will consider putting this in writing for me if required but I have not got it yet. They also advised that they do not test drive the cars on MOT's.

 

Dealer has said I should have noticed it during my test drive and as I have now done nearly 5000 miles since purchase that I have caused the fault myself (Comment over phone not in writing.)

 

 

Can anyone advise of my next step? I am fully prepared to go to court to resolve if necessary. I am considering rejecting the car as a mis-sold contract due to the warranty being effectively useless.

[sailor sam]

Have now spoken with the Manager who has said that the fault must have happened since point of sale. He was fairly friendly and helpful and said he would speak to the MOT station who tested the car the day before collection to check any advisories. Told me if there was an advisory then they would repair it. If not then it was my problem.

 

I have advised him that under SOGA he has a legal obligation to repair the car at his own cost.

 

I have hand delivered a letter yesterday stipulating that under SOGA I find the car of unsatisfactory quality and that as the car was bought less than 6 months ago the liability for the fault lies with the dealer.

 

Letter Sent :

 

 

Speaking with the manager this morning he has confirmed receipt of the letter and informs me he has passed it to his boss who will respond next week. He advises that if his boss wishes to repair as "an act of good faith" then they will but he disputes they have a legal obligation to do so.

 

I have also spoken directly with the MOT station who advised that if the bearing was faulty at point of sale they may not have noticed it as a worn bearing will only have play when it is in a serious condition. They will consider putting this in writing for me if required but I have not got it yet. They also advised that they do not test drive the cars on MOT's.

 

Dealer has said I should have noticed it during my test drive and as I have now done nearly 5000 miles since purchase that I have caused the fault myself (Comment over phone not in writing.)

 

 

Can anyone advise of my next step? I am fully prepared to go to court to resolve if necessary. I am considering rejecting the car as a mis-sold contract due to the warranty being effectively useless.

 

Yeah, right! He DOES have a legal obligation to do so and he knows it!

 

Let him have his 7 days from the date of your letter and if they do not respond it will be Letter before action time.

 

You will find that the warranty is 'supplied' because it is required by the finance co. Have you spoken to them about it excluding your car?

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[Heretian]

Not spoken with finance company yet as its frankly been a struggle to even find time to speak with the dealership due to work commitments and a lack of personal calls during working hours. Strangely internet access is easier than picking up the phone hence me being on here. I hope to get hold of them tomorrow and see if they can offer any assistance.

 

I am also flying out to NI on business Monday so knowing my luck their response will arrive by post while I am away. Something to look forward to when I get back at least.

[Heretian]

Yeah, right! He DOES have a legal obligation to do so and he knows it!

 

Let him have his 7 days from the date of your letter and if they do not respond it will be Letter before action time.

 

You will find that the warranty is 'supplied' because it is required by the finance co. Have you spoken to them about it excluding your car?

 

[/Quote]

 

Have now managed to find time to sneak in a phonecall to finance co. They have said there is no requirement to have warranty on the vehicle but they have made a note. Currently systems down for Month End but have been advised that if he does not reply with a positive outcome to let them know as they obviously have a vested interest in the vehicle as the loan is secured on it. Have advised them that if he does not repair it I would be pursuing a course of rejection for mis-sold contract due to the warranty being "more useless than damp toilet paper". They are interested in this as it obviously means they would lose interest on the payments after the dealer is forced to clear the outstanding.

 

Will now have to await the dealers reply.

[sailor sam]

I knew the finance co would help. I think you will find a different approach now from the dealer.

 

Keep us posted.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[flub1976]

Sailor sam - Close motor finance (and most others) do NOT require any form of warranty to be supplied. As an aside I have seen the AA cover schedule and it is very lacking in many areas. Further more it will only cover mechanical failure to the bearing and not wear and tear. The op should have been presented with booklet at the time which would explain that. Not the best cover or warrant yon the market but then most are pretty poor.

 

As the item is most probably wear and tear then the warranty was possible not missold but is just a poorer product. AA warranties are not actually with AA but i beleive they are under license and issued by Motorway Direct.

 

Further my understanding of soga is that the 6 months rule only changes the responsibility of proof to the seller in the first 6 months, i.e. to show that the fault was not present at sale. The change just made an assumption that it was unless shown otherwise.

[sailor sam]

Flub - the warranty in this case apparently excludes the OPs car because of it's age/mileage so not much use in any event. This suggested that the warranty had been supplied in the hope it would never be needed to be called upon. I am aware that some finance co's do not insist that a used car requires a warranty, but in my experience, most do and actually provide the funding for it which leads the customer believe its free. As the OP has stated, the finance company appear to be concerned about the dealer's stand so far.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.