Welcome Credit Agreement - Manipulated?!?

[drob]

I took a personal loan with Welcome Finance on 5th November 2008 which included Personal Accident & Payment Protection Insurance. I then decided to cancel the Insurances within the cooling off period.

 

Welcome Finance cancelled the Insurance and informed me of my new monthly payment. No revised credit agreement was sent to me nor did i sign a revised agreement.

 

I got behind with my monthly payments and Welcome started to harass me so I sent a CCA request to them on 8th April 2008.

 

I received a phone call from Welcome asking for a payment, my reply was were is my credit agreement. They told me, you have it already..... I said, yes i have the original but not an ammended one to reflect the cancellation of Insurances and reflecting my new monthly payment. At this point Welcome put the phone down.

 

Since that phone call I have been contacted by 3 different depatments at different addresses telling me that they have never received £1 payment for a copy of my CCA.

 

I wrote to Welcome on 12th June 2010 telling that they have had the £1 and that they are in default of my request

 

Today 18th June 2010 I received 2 different letters telling me that thet are in the process of dealing with my CCA request. Also in the samepost in a 3rd envelope was a CCA and statement of account.

 

The Credit agreement that has been sent to me shows the Insurances removed, with my signature on the agreement.

 

1. I did not sign a new agreement.

 

2. The Original agrrement was signed on 5th Nov 2008 and the agreement that they have sent me was alllegedly signed by me on 25th Nov 2008. It appears they have addded a 2 before the 5.

 

Welcome stupidly have cobbled an agreement together ....... What is my next move????

[Dibbothe3rd]

can you match the signature on the 1st agreement to the 2nd agreement? ie do they match like for like? if so, looks like they could have lifted it off the old one and photocopied it onto the new one.

 

try putting one over the other and hold up to the light to see. No two signatures are exactly the same so in your case, if they are, then you may have a case against them.

[postggj]

what date did welcome sign to execute the agreement

[postggj]

welcome did the same to me

 

i got a report from a graphologist and was using it in court

 

scared the hell out of welcome

 

result was no more welcome/default or agreement on credit files

[essexboy]

drob

 

what dbbothe3rd and postggj is saying is true

 

and in my case i have no signature on the original and the sar is signed

 

so believe me they are capable

[drob]

what date did welcome sign to execute the agreement

 

 

The first agreement that I kept a copy of was signed by Welcome on 11/11/08

 

 

The secomd agreement allegedly signed by me with the PPI removed has not been signed by Welcome

[drob]

can you match the signature on the 1st agreement to the 2nd agreement? ie do they match like for like? if so, looks like they could have lifted it off the old one and photocopied it onto the new one.

 

try putting one over the other and hold up to the light to see. No two signatures are exactly the same so in your case, if they are, then you may have a case against them.

 

 

The second signature is different to the first one. I know 100% i did not sign a second agreement.

[BigCannon]

Take it to your local police station and ask to speak to a CID fraud officer.

I thought I was up against enough with Welcomes PROVEN shifty practices but you are alleging forgery and deceit of the most serios kind. If you see my post of today elsewhere on this forum then you will see what I mean. I am waiting for a reply from Welcome myself before alleging fraud in the case of an extra item added to a car loan with no ones consent. Is there no depth Welcome will not sink to?

[drob]

To be honest I am shocked ......

 

1. I know i did not sign an new credit agreement when I cancelled the PPI and this is one of the reasons I sent off a CCA request.

 

2. In a telephone conversation with Welcome they questioned why i wanted a copy of my CCA... I explained to them that It's because I do not have a copy of any new agreement with the PPI removed (knowing that I have never signed one)

 

3. Request CCA on 8th April 2010 and my £1 fee shows on my Welcome statement on 12th April 2010.

 

4. June 2010, I sent them a letter telling me that they are in default of my CCA request

 

5. June 2010, Welcome tell me that they have never received the £1 fee despite the £1 showing on my statement in April 2010.

 

Since April 2008, Welcome have used stalling taticts to provide a CCA. Why did they not send a copy of the very first agreement, but choose to cobble together an agreement that never existed in the first place???

[drob]

This Just keeps getting better.... I received a default notice from Welcome Finance this morning!!!!

 

I want to put together a strong worded letter and send it to Welcome.... any help would be appreciated.

[Sand-Dancer0191]

Read the posts on D/Ns...is yours valid or dodgy

as for the letter postggi may be the one for this as he produces some crackers

[steven4064]

but in th emeantime, do what BigCannon said. If they really have doctored an agreement as you suspect, they have committed a crime. A crime with consequences (like being sent to prison)

[drob]

but in th emeantime, do what BigCannon said. If they really have doctored an agreement as you suspect, they have committed a crime. A crime with consequences (like being sent to prison)

 

 

Yes they have 100% cobbled the second agreement together as I never signed and ammended Credit Agreement.... I want to write to Welcome, but I am unsure what to put in the letter!!!

[postggj]

Hi Drob

 

When I Got A Moment Ill Do A Letter To Send This Lot

[drob]

Hi Drob

 

When I Got A Moment Ill Do A Letter To Send This Lot

 

 

Hi postggj...

 

Thank you very much for your time and help an I look forward to your draught letter.

[postggj]

Just A Few Questions Drob

 

Please Confirm

 

You Signed The 1st Agreement 5/11/2008

 

You Cancelled All The Insurance Crap, Within 28 Days, Welcome Gave You A New Monthly Payment But No New Credit Agreement Or Agreement To Modify

 

How Different Is The Second Signature, Is It Obviouse

 

Phone These People In The Morning And Confirm They Did Cancell The Insurance Crap And Date

 

http://www.directgroup.co.uk/

 

Give Me Those Answers And You Will Have Your Letter

[drob]

1. You Signed The 1st Agreement 5/11/2008? Yes

2. You Cancelled All The Insurance Crap, Within 28 Days, Welcome Gave You A New Monthly Payment But No New Credit Agreement Or Agreement To Modify Yes

3. How Different Is The Second signature, Is It is slighly different to the original signature, Welcome may have lifted the signature from another document or letter to cobble the second agreement together. The second agreement has no signature from Welcome so is not properly executed.

[postggj]

Get Back To Me Ref Direct Group And Ill Do The Letter Either By Pm Or In The Open

 

Your Choice

[drob]

Get Back To Me Ref Direct Group And Ill Do The Letter Either By Pm Or In The Open

 

Your Choice

 

 

I will ring Direct Group in the morning and let you know. You can put the draught letter on the thread if you like.

[drob]

I have called Direct Group and they have confirmed that the Insurance was cancelled.

 

I have also attached the alleged Credit Agreement that Welcome sent to me. The terms & conditions were stapled to the back of the agreement. I have blanked out personal details.

 

As far as i can see the cobbled together agreement doesn't have an agreement number nor has it been executed by Welcome. Are there any other problems with the agreement?????

Welcome CCA.PDF

Terms & Conditions.PDF

[drob]

bump

[citizenB]

When the Insurance was cancelled, I would have thought that a new agreement was required to be drawn up minus all references to the Insurance.

 

You are claiming (I think) that an agreement has been provided to you on which the signature alleged to be yours, is questionable ?

 

What was to be the purpose of the letter Post was drafting for you ? Sorry if that question seems dense to you.. but I dont quite understand what is going on.

[drob]

When the Insurance was cancelled, I would have thought that a new agreement was required to be drawn up minus all references to the Insurance.

 

You are claiming (I think) that an agreement has been provided to you on which the signature alleged to be yours, is questionable ? YES

 

What was to be the purpose of the letter Post was drafting for you ? Sorry if that question seems dense to you.. but I dont quite understand what is going on.

I am not sure as to what post was planning to put in the draught letter

 

 

Have you had a look at the cobbled together agreement that Welcome supplied?

[citizenB]

No, I hadnt looked at the agreement.. will go and do so now.

[citizenB]

I have to admit, that this type of agreement is not within my knowledge. I dont understand what you are meaning by "cobbled" together.

 

Were your name and address on the document. I am not sure what the consequences of there not being an agreement number on the paperwork means unless other details are radically incorrect as well.

 

Are you saying that the terms and conditions were not or could not be part of the original document. Did you ever receive a copy of the original document by which you can confirm without proof that they are two unconnected pages ?

 

What does concern me is that, if radical changes are made to an agreement as in this case the removal of the insurance. Then I would have thought a new agreement would have been drawn up, as I already said. It changes the whole agreement and you would need protection should as has happened.. litigation happened.

 

Plus of course you are claiming that the signature isnt yours. You would need to hire an expert witness to back up your claim if this were to end up in court.

 

The qoute below was taken from your first post. You say the agreement was started in November 2008.. then later on that you sent a CCA request in April 2008 ? do you mean April 2009 ?

 

 

 

I took a personal loan with Welcome Finance on 5th November 2008 which included Personal Accident & Payment Protection Insurance. I then decided to cancel the Insurances within the cooling off period.

 

Welcome Finance cancelled the Insurance and informed me of my new monthly payment. No revised credit agreement was sent to me nor did i sign a revised agreement.

 

I got behind with my monthly payments and Welcome started to harass me so I sent a CCA request to them on 8th April 2008.

 

The only thing I can suggest you do is write to Welcome ,advising that you have serious doubts about the authenticity of the paperwork they have provided you with and until such times as they provide you with an accurate copy of the original then you consider the account to be in dispute.

 

If at such times legal action is commenced, then you will be entitled under CPR31.15 to ask to inspect the original document. I would think as this account is so new, then they would have the original document on file.

 

HTH