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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Amex/Mischcon V Me


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Now there is a thought. I wonder how many other Judges have stated this. it will be in the transcript of the hearing also. It was clear it he did not want to hear this case.

 

We had better not hijack this thread any further. Amazing how things go off on a tangent.

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So to add:

 

DNs are effective in making DCAs discontinue and I never said they weren't effective, just that FOR Court, a stronger argument needs to be in place in case it gets there. That is why set off is VERY important as a defence. The reason why DCAs discontinue on the back of a faulty DN is because the arrears are only a couple hundred pounds, whilst the whole debt is several thousands, and when faced with a cag defence with a faulty DN, the couple hundred pounds are not worth recovering so is in fact written off. If a DCA really wanted to be petty, they would go just for the arrears but they are in it for business, not for revenge which is why the discontinuance occurs. The point of litigation is to be prepared... so there is no harm in being prepared!

 

I am intersted in the whole "abuse of process" thing.

 

I have some legal education but I am not a solicitor and I don't know how things really go down.

 

If a DCA started proceedings for say £9k then it turned out the DN was defective and they were only entitled to say £200 then surely the claim is an abuse of process?

 

Wouldn't that cause one or more of the following?

 

(1) No costs to claimant awarded.

(2) Costs to defendant awarded.

(3) Claim struck out completely as an abuse of process.

 

If the overiding objective of the legal system is out of court settlement surely if they commence proceedings for say £9k and they only have a legal right for £200 they are denying you the opportunity to settle early?

 

I am sure nearly everyone would settle for £200 on a £9k claim LOL!

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If a DCA started proceedings for say £9k then it turned out the DN was defective and they were only entitled to say £200 then surely the claim is an abuse of process?

 

 

Don't you think they issue proceedings in the hope that debtor will panic and agree to making payments. Thereby admitting the debt and the claim not proceeding to trial.?

 

They probably have a good idea that the DN's are defective and just hope the debtor hasn't worked it out.

 

It would be interesting to know what percentage of claims issued by creditors are subsequently discontinued before they get to trial following defendant submitting a defence based on faulty documentation.

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Blondie40. I'm with you on this. Suspect much, if not most court action by DCAs is an abuse of process aimed completely at getting the debtor to panic and make payments (even if the DCA is not entitled to those payments).

 

They know they don't have the correct paperwork yet push on regardless and this is because they have been getting away with this for years but also because for every one person who fights back, there must be many who don't!

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They can't loose really. They take you to court regardless of the evidence. If you put up a good case they discontinue at the last minute to avoid setting a prescident and if you don't they win and have more ammunition to show the next judge.

Its the law that needs tightening.

Surely it is not too much to insist on an executable agreement and default notice before a credit card claim is made. Just think of the time this would save the courts.

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That's exactly what should happen FTM.

 

At least the Scottish system is now insisting on seeing the original agreement or they can't bring a case. It really is so simple and would free up a hell of a lot of court time.

 

Can't work out why they don't do this in England and Wales.

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That's exactly what should happen FTM.

 

At least the Scottish system is now insisting on seeing the original agreement or they can't bring a case. It really is so simple and would free up a hell of a lot of court time.

 

Can't work out why they don't do this in England and Wales.

 

Well for one we can all write to our mp's

 

With the austerity measures in mind I do have a brilliant idea how we can free up court time and vastly reduce the burden placed on legal aid.

When a creditor takes a debtor to court over an agreement covered by the consumer credit act they must with the application include a verified copy of the agreement in question and the default notice needed to take the next step enforcement action.

The we could move on to our own experiences and how this has impacted on us.

 

Enough letters and the prospect of saving money - who knows!

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Yes, I can't make up my mind whether the judge I've come across is just incredibly prejudiced against the general public or is bent. He certainly has no concept of justice. It seems that if you end up in court accused of owing money, some judges think you deserve all they can throw at you. Even when their actions fly in the face of the law, it all comes down to judge's discretion. I hope this makes you feel a little better to not be alone.

 

Anyway, I've read somewhere in the CPR that allowances are supposed to be made towards a litigant in person to allow a level playing field. Can anyone remind me exactly where to find this ?

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Now there is a thought. I wonder how many other Judges have stated this. it will be in the transcript of the hearing also. It was clear it he did not want to hear this case.

 

We had better not hijack this thread any further. Amazing how things go off on a tangent.

 

I have tried to get transcripts of hearings only to be told that for County Court, they don't exist. Maybe that's because all my hearings have been held in chambers, but I would feel alot better if everything was being recorded.

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It's my experience that all hearings are recorded - though you should always ask/insist that they are at the beginning of the hearing (speak tot he usher). You can apply for a transcript (probably betw £50 and £150, depending on the length of the hearing). I'm not entirely sure, but I think you can apply to the court for a transcript of the DJ's final reasoning/order.

 

Martel

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  • 4 months later...
Does anyone think that this recent OFT ruling might be helpful to my case?????[ATTACH]23502[/ATTACH]

 

Thanks in advance,

MX

 

Apologies Martel but can you summarise where we are with this and which part of the OFT restriction on Amex you think would apply.

 

I note from post 1 that your default notice was defective, you should be aware that Brandon vs Amex quashes most problems with faulty default notices at present but thats due for an oral appeal application on 6th Dec I believe.

 

S.

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Apologies Martel but can you summarise where we are with this and which part of the OFT restriction on Amex you think would apply.

 

I note from post 1 that your default notice was defective, you should be aware that Brandon vs Amex quashes most problems with faulty default notices at present but thats due for an oral appeal application on 6th Dec I believe.

 

S.

 

Hi Shadow,

 

Thanks for your post.

 

I don't know what in the new OFT requirements might apply to my case. I think the other three OFT requirements (Welcome, Alliance and Leicester and HFC) also concentrate on charging orders but also, to my untrained eye, involve 'unfair relationships'.

 

Interesting about the Brandon case.....looking forward to hearing the verdict on Monday!!!

 

Just seems the courts are siding with the creditors.

 

 

MXXX

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