Bell not playing ball

[mhartley]

Hi all,

 

I'm hoping someone may be able to help and will be eternally grateful.

 

I had a 1998 R reg 106 GTI in black with 96,000 miles which someone drove into the side of It was insured fully comp with Bell (part of the Admiral group)

 

The third party accepted liability at the time of the incident and when i rang my insurance company, i was told very clearly that i would not lose my NCB and i would not have to pay my excess as it's no fault of my own. I didn't ask for the guy to hit me, so why should i have to pay for him writing my car off.

 

Last week i was offered £1500 for my car, even though on my insurance i don't understand why they ask what colour and how much it's worth as there are not many GTI's in black around, and i told them it was worth £2500.

 

£1500 is a stupid amount and i was told to get some classified ads together to prove that my car was worth more than that.

 

I managed to find 3 (one being an R reg with 120,000 miles on it) for £2750 and the others being 1998 S reg's with similar mileage for £3000 (they apparantly can't use these as they are S reg and not R reg even though they are all 1998 ) odd eh?

 

Due to this, they were carefully considered and they managed to add on a whole £205 bringing my settlement to £1705 and sending me a cheque without even prompting me first. Why send me a settlement when i haven't even settled?

 

They also want to charge me a £1250 excess due to them not having a statement of liability from the third party, not my fault? Get the bloody statement then, why should i have to pay? I was told CLEARLY that it would be wavered and i'm forcing them to listen to the phone call.

 

So what was the point in me sending them 3 quotes of cars if they are just going to dismiss them?

 

Any ideas as to what to do? As i can't find another 1998 R reg GTI in black with 96,000 for £1705. They said they don't take colour into consideration, so if you buy a Focus RS in green or a TVR in incandescent blue paint worth £3k, they won't take that into consideration AT ALL.

 

/Rant over

 

Help me sort them out, as my insurance company seem to be working against me, and not for me.

 

I have now complained to the financial ombudsman and my case has been passed to the quality control department. They did back up their offer of £1705 with classified ads of their own (8 in fact) of which only ONE was the same reg but was an insurance cat c/d. The others were all V reg cars with 115,000 miles + on them and all had modified exhausts, alloys, air filters and lowered. Obviously a standard car is worth a LOT more.

 

Fact is, i didn't ask for this guy to drive into the side of me and write my car off, and around a week or so before, i was looking at putting it up for sale, and was going to autotrader it at £2800 ONO. The cars they have found, i made sure i rung the numbers and to be honest, they range from £1200-£2000 and they all sound like boxes of rubbish. 106 GTI's had a lot of problems so finding one sub 100k with no problems and in tip top condition is VERY hard to find, so i found them, but apparantly they haven't even considered them, so why ask me to get them?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Andy

Edited June 14, 2010 by mhartley

[MARTIN3030]

Andy welcome to the CAG.

Sorry I am not up to speed on your questions-but I know there are many here who are,and will respond to this soon.

[honeybee13]

Hello Andy and welcome from me too.

 

I expect one of our gurus will be along soon, sorry I don't know the answer to this.

 

Ouch, you are angry, aren't you? Please try to be gentle with us, people are helpful here. At the risk of sounding 100 years old and old-fashioned, I'm not sure ranting at the people you're asking to help you will further your cause. I don't often feel bruised by a post, but I couldn't read more than about two-thirds of yours. Everyone here gives their time voluntarily, so the odd please or thank you is always nice.

 

HB

[mhartley]

Hi, thanks for the warm welcome

 

Sorry if my post came across as me being angry, to a certain degree i am, but not at anyone on here and thank anyone in advance if they can help.

 

Hope you all have a nice day today

 

Andy

[honeybee13]

I knew you were nice really . Have a nice day yourself.

 

HB x

[unclebulgaria67]

Unfortunately from what I have read on the FOS site, Insurers don't have to consider values of cars being sold in the small ads. They say these values are optimistic values of what the sellers want to receive and not the actual price received i.e. the buyer would negotiate a reduction.

 

The FOS will only advise that Insurers pay the correct book value e.g. Glass.co.uk. This won't take into account the colour of the car, unless the paint job on the car was an extra cost option, which you included on your Insurance as a modification.

 

In regard to the excess and any other uninsured losses, you would need to claim these off the 3rd parties Insurance. If you took out the legal expenses cover with the Insurance, they will help with this. If it is clear the 3rd party was at fault, then claiming back will be straightforward. Also your Insurers should not face too much of an issue claiming back your payout, so you don' lose your NCD.

 

From what you have posted so far, your Insurers have done nothing that would be considered wrong. If negotiations become protracted they will issue a settlement cheque. They will also deduct the excess, if there is still a negotiation with the 3rd party Insurers to take place. As they have said they don't have any statement from the 3rd party driver to admit liability, so the 3rd party driver could change their mind. You would be amazed at how other drivers in an accident make up stories, to avoid being blamed.

 

What you can do now.

 

1) Help the FOS value the car. Provide them with details that support your valuation. e.g. service history, small ads showing similar for sale (they may ignore these and just use book value) but it might influence them when they negotiate final settlement.

 

2) Excess and other losses. If you have had the excess deducted and have other losses, the pursue these with the 3rd parties Insurers. The sooner you do this, the quicker you will get your money back. If there are any delays, put pressure on the 3rd party driver, threatening court proceedings if necessary. You always have the option of using the small claims court, if you are subject to any losses not covered by Insurance. You have to wait for the FOS to deal with this first, as they won't do anything if you have issued any court proceedings.

[mhartley]

Thanks for the response.

 

The thing is, i know that the ones they have found are going to be dog rough cars and not maintained, oil leaks, rust etc...

 

The ones i found were mainly owned by fellow car club members and i KNOW that they have been looked after.

 

This is the dilemma that i'm facing

 

Andy

[unclebulgaria67]

The FOS will not be suggesting a value more than the top book value.

 

It will be very difficult for you to obtain the value you are looking for, even if you took the 3rd party to court.

 

If you want to Insure a specific model of car for an agreed value, you really should have gone to a broker and obtained an agreed value policy. It would probably have cost you more.

 

Most standard Insurance policies will only cover the market value.

 

You may have read the FOS details on this.

motor insurance: vehicle valuation

[mhartley]

So i basically have to accept their derisory offer and buy the same car with more miles, different year and lots of problems?

 

Andy

[unclebulgaria67]

So i basically have to accept their derisory offer and buy the same car with more miles, different year and lots of problems?

 

Andy

 

The idea of Insurance is to put you in the same position as you were before the accident, if the accident was not your fault.

 

Your problem is that the market value shown in the guides such as glass.co.uk may well be lower than what you see advertised in 'owners club' magazines and other small ads.

 

If you want my honest opinion, I would say that people selling these cars, have an inflated view of what their cars are worth, so the guides are probably correct. Therefore you will get less than you want for the car, but you don't have to accept it. The FOS will probably suggest the book value as being more in line with market value. It is then up to you, whether you decide to take your Insurers through the small claims court process, but you will need evidence to back your valuation. The courts will otherwise, go with the FOS view.

[mhartley]

Glass's guide is purely that, a guide, i used to use it when i sold cars for a living and looking up the price of cars like a Ferrari F40, if you can find one for their price listed, chew their arm off in an instant.

 

I'm happy to get back a car of the same caliber, in same condition. Not something that i'm going to have to spend ANOTHER £500 on to get into the condition my one was in. These cars are riddled with problems, hence the higher price for a good condition one.

 

Andy

[mhartley]

Anyone else got any more advice?

 

Andy

[unclebulgaria67]

The only additional comment I would make is this. If you have spent a lot of money maintaining the car (or the previous owners have), you will presumably have invoices/receipts showing all the parts/labour that have gone into keeping it in pristine condition. Have you copied these and passed to the Insurers/FOS to help them consider the value?

 

As you say the valuation guides are only that ' guides'. Proving that the car was worth more than the top guide value is down to you. However far you take this, it is about the mass of evidence that you compile that could make a difference.

[mhartley]

They have gone to £2100 now, but i said i will be willing to accept at £2200. They said that if they go to £2200 then i will lose my NCB. How can they do this?

 

Andy

[unclebulgaria67]

They can't. You only lose the NCB if your Insurers don't recover their settlement from the 3rd parties Insurers.

 

So are your Insurers saying that the 3rd party Insurers are willing to dispute the claim if the settlement is £100 more ?

 

This sounds like utter rubbish to me.

[mhartley]

That's exactly it, they are saying that the third party insurer's will dispute the amount therefore they won;'t receive the amount back so i will have to forfeit the no claims bonus.

 

Andy

[Mwynci]

Bell don't actually know this. I really doubt they have been in touch with the third party specifically to discuss quantum (costs). They are probably bluffing you, which isn't fair play.

If it's worth going back to this, do you actually know the guide prices for yourself? if not ask them to confirm that they have given you glass's guide retail (and plus any more if that's the case) as right now we don't have the full picture.

 

If you are in a position where if Bell were to deal as per the FOS terms and they still couldn't recover all their money, well that's Bell's tough luck.

[unclebulgaria67]

That's exactly it, they are saying that the third party insurer's will dispute the amount therefore they won;'t receive the amount back so i will have to forfeit the no claims bonus.

 

Andy

 

Are the 3rd parties Insurers part of the same group of companies as Bell ?

 

You could suggest to Bell that what they have said could be considered as unfair trading practices, if there was any collusion between Insurers. To see if there is any basis for this allegation, you could feel morally obliged to report them to the OFT, via Consumer Direct.

 

An extra £100 is not going to matter too much to the 3rd parties Insurers. It is just that Bell have dug their heels in and don't want to pay this. You would have to consider whether for £100 it is worth challenging this any further. Perhaps make one further phone call to the person dealing with the claim and suggest they refer this to their manager. You don't want to cause them any trouble if you reported their comments to the OFT.

[mhartley]

Glass's guide price is quite a bit below what they have offered me (£400 less or so) but i don't believe they have spoken to the third party insurer's which is Saga.

 

They are saying that if they can't retrieve what they have paid out, my policy states that i will lose my NCB, but surely they should be fighting with Saga to get this rectified?

 

Andy

[Endymion]

Why don't you stop going for a payout from your own insurers and then go for the third party insurers (saga?) to get the money for the total loss you are after?

 

You will probably have legal expenses insurance and they can instruct a firm of solicitors to obtain the monies for you. As such, any shortfall will not be a claim on your policy.

[Mwynci]

They should be, if they can somehow justify giving you the further £100.00 (I'm assuming they have agreed in principle) then they must be able to back themselves up, if they are saying £2100.00 tops, just come out with it, no excuses, as they just don't help.

If they are just giving the other £100.00 to get rid of you, then yes they will have trouble claiming it back, but that again is their problem.

you could ask for a further £50.00 to resolve???

[mhartley]

The new car i want i can have for £2200, hence me wanting that as i'm signed off work due to health issues i can't afford to make up the money myself and i need a car.

 

Andy