can bailiff take car on hp finance

[sparky321]

hi, i hope someone can advise me, i recieved a letter today from JBW bailiffs, it states:

 

Our automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) van has seen your vehicle and instructed an enforcement agent (bailiff) to attend, seize and impound it. Once the vehichle has been removed you will have six days to pay. Failure to make payment will result in us selling your vehicle to pay the debt and fees.

 

The letter had a photograph of my car parked on my driveway which was obviously taken at some point before the letter was sent. They are asking for £395.04... love the 4p lol, which originally started off as a £50.00 parking ticket last may. yes i was silly and forgot all about it.

My question is can they do this if my car is on HP finance. i still have a few years left to pay on the finance so what happens if they take the car, is that like theft or something? I called them and explained that it was on finance but they were not interested and insisted i make half payment this week and half next week to stop action, i asked for more time to pay, like a £100.00 a month for 4 months but they refused...is this letter called a levy, im not sure what to do, i reluctantly agreed to pay them half on friday but with 3 young children and only one low income it looks like we will have no food next week, can anyone advise me please, i cannot understand how the charge is so high when all they have done is sent one letter to me. thanks so much.

[dx100uk]

no they can't

tell em its on HP.

 

dx

[sparky321]

i told them it was on HP and the woman said it makes no difference

[hallowitch]

send a copy of the finance agreement to the council and JBW by e-mail and recorded delivery letter putting them both on notice that there can be no enforcement action regarding this car as it on finance and

any levy fees/van fees added to your debt should be removed

ask the council to put this finance agreement on record for future reference regarding this matter

 

ask JBW for a breakdown of fees

[sparky321]

thankyou for reply HW...sorry if i sound stupid but what is a levvy fee and do you advise me not to pay them on friday, i am happy to pay the ticket and costs but i didnt think it would be as much as that, I am worried that if i send the finance stuff as toy say then this will take time and they might turn up over the weekend and take my car which i need to get the children to schools etc, should i still pay them and then deal with it or should i not pay and just hope they dont turn up. the woman on the phone said if I dont pay then they will add another £300.00 to the bill and charge daily impound costs. Surely when I told her that my car is on HP, she should have asked for the finance agreement, by the way the finance is with welcome finance, iv seen so much on here about them too, not sure if I should pay or not tho, what do you think, im worried as I cant afford for the amount to be doubled, then I will be in a right mess and could never pay that sort of money, thanks for your help

[dx100uk]

this why you should NEVER talk to these fleecers on the phone.

they will say anything to make you pay and extort fraudulant fees off of you.

 

simple fact is they cannot take the car, show them the finance agreement should they show up.

 

you need to get a screenshot from them.

 

if you can pay 'something' pay the council direct.

 

dx

[hallowitch]

thankyou for reply HW...sorry if i sound stupid but what is a Levy fee

before a bailiff can remove goods (the car) they must levy it first this is done on a Notice of seizure of goods and inventory and a levy fee is charged for this action (obviously you haven't had one of these)

and do you advise me not to pay them on Friday,

 

That i cant advise you on

 

i am happy to pay the ticket and costs but i didn't think it would be as much as that,

 

the fees seem rather high for a £50 parking ticket (but I'm not an expert on paring tickets fees)

 

I am worried that if i send the finance stuff as toy say then this will take time and they might turn up over the weekend and take my car

 

cant you scan it and send it by e-mail first

 

which i need to get the children to schools etc, should i still pay them and then deal with it or should i not pay and just hope they don't turn up.

again this has to be your decision

 

the woman on the phone said if I don't pay then they will add another £300.00 to the bill and charge daily impound costs. Surely when I told her that my car is on HP, she should have asked for the finance agreement,

 

 

yes she should have but by telling you that they can remove it and add more fees they hope you just pay up and go away

by the way the finance is with welcome finance, iv seen so much on here about them too, not sure if I should pay or not tho, what do you think, I'm worried as I cant afford for the amount to be doubled, then I will be in a right mess and could never pay that sort of money, thanks for your help

 

 

as i said I'm not great with bailiff fees for parking tickets but i do think you have been well overcharged

hopefully someone will come along with more advice regarding the fee they can charge

[sparky321]

thanks DX... i called the council and they said its nothing to do with them, out of their hands now and i have to deal with bailiffs from now on, i agree they are all fraudsters but im worried they will just turn up and take it, the letter states they can come anytime from 6am and 9pm and remove it. Oh gosh im so confused what to do now, im so grateful for the advice but im scared they will just turn up and take it while we are asleep, i wont have the chance to show the bailiff the finance agreement, if i send it to them im gonna be sitting here worrying that they havnt seen it before just turning up. iv read other posts where they have done this, oh god not sure what to do. Hallow, i called council but not interested in finance, thanks so much both for advice

[sparky321]

ps...sorry what is a screenshot thanks

[ploddertom]

i told them it was on HP and the woman said it makes no difference

 

 

The moon is made of green cheese - sorry to be facetious but the Bailiffs are all accomplished liars, cheats & thieves - never believe anything they tell you. Only speak to them on the phone if you can record the call. Like some others I'm not great with these fees but if you can afford to then I suggest pay them first - takes all the pressure off - then look at leisure at what you have been charged and maybe recover any unlawful charges.

 

At present I would also argue the charges are high as you have never had a visit just a letter. A spin around the streets with a ANPR system cannot constitute a visit. If they then add extra visit fees then yes the total will increase rapidly.

 

PT

[tomtubby]

hi, i hope someone can advise me, i recieved a letter today from JBW bailiffs, it states:

 

Our automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) van has seen your vehicle and instructed an enforcement agent (bailiff) to attend, seize and impound it. Once the vehichle has been removed you will have six days to pay. Failure to make payment will result in us selling your vehicle to pay the debt and fees.

 

The letter had a photograph of my car parked on my driveway which was obviously taken at some point before the letter was sent. They are asking for £395.04... love the 4p lol, which originally started off as a £50.00 parking ticket last may. yes i was silly and forgot all about it.

My question is can they do this if my car is on HP finance. i still have a few years left to pay on the finance so what happens if they take the car, is that like theft or something? I called them and explained that it was on finance but they were not interested and insisted i make half payment this week and half next week to stop action, i asked for more time to pay, like a £100.00 a month for 4 months but they refused...is this letter called a levy, im not sure what to do, i reluctantly agreed to pay them half on friday but with 3 young children and only one low income it looks like we will have no food next week, can anyone advise me please, i cannot understand how the charge is so high when all they have done is sent one letter to me. thanks so much.

 

 

If a vehicle is subject to hire purchase then it is NOT yours and you do not have TITLE to it.

 

A bailiff must NOT seize goods that he cannot sell and therefore....if he cannot sell it he mustn't seize it.

 

If a bailiff clamps or removes a vehicle in the full knowledge that he cannot sell it, then he could find himself being accused of using your car as.......

 

 

.....A form of RANSOM !!

[tomtubby]

hi, i hope someone can advise me, i recieved a letter today from JBW bailiffs, it states:

 

Our automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) van has seen your vehicle and instructed an enforcement agent (bailiff) to attend, seize and impound it. Once the vehichle has been removed you will have six days to pay. Failure to make payment will result in us selling your vehicle to pay the debt and fees.

 

The letter had a photograph of my car parked on my driveway which was obviously taken at some point before the letter was sent. They are asking for £395.04... love the 4p lol, which originally started off as a £50.00 parking ticket last may. yes i was silly and forgot all about it.

My question is can they do this if my car is on HP finance. i still have a few years left to pay on the finance so what happens if they take the car, is that like theft or something? I called them and explained that it was on finance but they were not interested and insisted i make half payment this week and half next week to stop action, i asked for more time to pay, like a £100.00 a month for 4 months but they refused...is this letter called a levy, im not sure what to do, i reluctantly agreed to pay them half on friday but with 3 young children and only one low income it looks like we will have no food next week, can anyone advise me please, i cannot understand how the charge is so high when all they have done is sent one letter to me. thanks so much.

 

 

CLEARLY the bailiff has NOT therefore "seized" your vehicle.

 

In that case please take note of the following:

 

If a debt is paid , WITHOUT the costs ....BEFORE seizure has occured.... then the bailiffs right to distrain on goods CEASES (Bennett v Bayes 1860) and it would be ILLEGAL for the bailiff to levy upon goods (in your case your vehicle) for the bailiffs costs !!!

 

This was also CONFIRMED by the Judge in the recent case of JBW Ltd (certificated bailiffs) V City of Westminster, and he went even further by saving that a bailiff cannot instigate legal proceedings against the debtor for his fees alone.

 

However, the bailiff is entitled to his fees and in cases such as this, he must look to the Local Authority and the debtor is not under any personal liability for them.

 

The above is most certainly applicable to the enforcement of unpaid parking tickets.

 

To CONFIRM, the amount that should be paid is the amount on the Warrant of Execution.

 

The above is correct but it is NOT quite so simple. This is because, bailiff companies know very well that the above is legal and for this reason the bailiff will REFUSE to accept payment. You could try the council but they will almost certainly say that the debt is with the bailiff and they will not get involved.

 

If you are able to, then you can pay online and ENSURE that you WRITE to the bailiff company to state that payment has been made in full to satisfy the warrant of execution before seizure of your goods and that you now consider that the matter should be withdrawn.

[sparky321]

just thought id add how i find it quite strange that they say that their ANPR van has seen my vehicle because the photograph had to be taken by someone in person in front of my front door, the photograph is of the front bonnet of the car, the car front is parked up to my front door so theres no way a van could have driven up my tiny side pathway and taken a picture of the front of my car, lol,it had to be taken by someone on foot who stood with a camera taking the shot. im sure they tell lies obviously eh ...thanks again all.

[josephbloggs]

if the removal and consequent sale of your vehicle was deemed to be valuable enough to clear the remainder of your finance, as well as enough to clear the costs and pcn - then your vehicle could be removed.

this is the information i was given when i wrote a letter of complaint to the bailiffs/company who clamped my car and i had to to pay, this came from someone who is supposed to be in the association of civil enforcement agencies.

[dx100uk]

well they would say that!

 

dx

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Joseph

 

I think that applies to cars on finance rather than HP.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...

 

HP - The HP company own the car, you 'hire' it, then buy it for a final payment. ONLY the HP company can authorize the transfer of ownership.

While you are making the payments as per the agreement i believe they are bound to offer YOU and only YOU (the hirer) the option to buy on the final payment.

I'm not aware of any mechanism for the car to pass from the HP company to the bailiff whilst you keep to the terms of the HP agreement.

Even if YOU agreed to hand it over to the bailiff, i believe you are committing an offense by selling (stealing) someone else's car.

 

Finance - You own the car, but the loan is secured against the car. If the loan is not paid off, the car can be recovered - regardless of who owns it, hence the need to be vigilant when buying a car.

 

I think it was the ever popular HCE who pointed out that in some cases bailiffs will pay off the finance (not HP) then auction the car.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Thegreenpimpernel

[ploddertom]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...

 

HP - The HP company own the car, you 'hire' it, then buy it for a final payment. ONLY the HP company can authorize the transfer of ownership.

While you are making the payments as per the agreement i believe they are bound to offer YOU and only YOU (the hirer) the option to buy on the final payment.

I'm not aware of any mechanism for the car to pass from the HP company to the bailiff whilst you keep to the terms of the HP agreement.

Even if YOU agreed to hand it over to the bailiff, i believe you are committing an offense by selling (stealing) someone else's car.

 

The HP company are only interested in the payments. If the car is worth 5K and you only have 2 payments left to make the HP company will allow the car to be seized and sold as long as they receive their last 2 payments. However if the same car is still worth 5K and you still have 48 payments to go then it will be a different story as whatever it realises won't pay the debt off.

 

Finance - You own the car, but the loan is secured against the car. If the loan is not paid off, the car can be recovered - regardless of who owns it, hence the need to be vigilant when buying a car.

 

I think it was the ever popular HCE who pointed out that in some cases bailiffs will pay off the finance (not HP) then auction the car.

 

PT

[Thegreenpimpernel]

PT

 

I'm sure that happens, but has it been tested in court?

 

I'm pretty sure my HP company contractually owes me a car if I (the hirer) make the final payment.

 

I can't see anything in the agreement that implies they can sell it to someone else.

[ploddertom]

PT

 

I'm sure that happens, but has it been tested in court?

 

I'm pretty sure my HP company contractually owes me a car if I (the hirer) make the final payment.

 

I can't see anything in the agreement that implies they can sell it to someone else.

 

Think about what you usually pay with HP - a fixed monthly payment, with the first payment there is usually some form of documentation fee and with the final payment an "option to purchase fee". In broad terms HP is like a secured loan only secured on the goods you are buying and as said previously the HP company are only concerned about getting their money back regardless of who pays.

 

PT

[Thegreenpimpernel]

I agree, but i'd love to see a legal ruling.

 

My point is that the hirer could have a case to say that:

 

he and the HP company have a contract. When the payments as per the contract have been made - where is the car you owe me?

 

I don't give a toss who else you have given / sold a car to, WE have a contract - YOU have the money - where is MY car?

 

The bailiff has YOUR car.

 

Where is mine?

 

Not the language you would use in court but you see what i mean?

[Bartok]

can bailiff take car on hp finance

 

No

 

The purchaser needs to have made the final payment.

[Bartok]

i told them it was on HP and the woman said it makes no difference

 

Capture it on tape or better still, on camera with the car in the background.

 

The woman - is she is a bailiff - has made a false representation to their powers, commits an offence >>

[dx100uk]

logically, i would also think this applies to a loan where the vehicle is either named in the agreement or it is obvious that it was a loan to finance the purchase of a car.

 

dx

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Bartok said: "The purchaser needs to have made the final payment."

 

'Purchaser' as in the person named on the agreement?

 

Two more questions:

 

1) Are you a lawyer?

2) Am i talking cr*p in post 21? (I never get offended, i'm here to learn)