Is This A Valid CCA? They Say Yes - I Say No

[letsdothis]

I recently CCA'ed a DCA and this is what I have finally received today. On first glances it clearly says Application Form and no prescribed terms etc

 

I want to settle (or clear this account) as this is obviously not a Credit Agreement, what steps do I need to take now?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Edited June 14, 2010 by letsdothis

[ScarletPimpernel]

Yet another unenforceable Capone agreement.

 

Send them a letter pointing out that (if this is all they sent) that whilst they have failed to comply fully with your request, from what they have sent the agreement is clearly unenforceable, and therefore the alleged debt is in dispute. Remind them that the OFT Guidance obliges them to cease all collection acivity in these circumstances.

[letsdothis]

Thank you for your reply ScarletPimpernel.

 

Does this mean that the DCA has to remove the default that they have registered etc?

 

I would really like to settle this, and so would it be a good idea to do the letter as you suggest, but offer them say £50 without admitting guilt as a gesture of goodwill, and on the conditions that they remove all adverse data?

 

Or is it a case of leaving it in a disputed state for the remaining 4 and a half years and then as such it will drop off.

 

I was hoping, as it was clearly unenforceable, that they would have no rights whatsoever to have recorded any information and so they should remove any data that they have added.

[ScarletPimpernel]

 

I was hoping, as it was clearly unenforceable, that they would have no rights whatsoever to have recorded any information and so they should remove any data that they have added.

 

This would be ideal, but unfortunately the CRAs will record any old rubbish that DCAs send them.

 

I certainly wouldn't offer them any money at all. What tends to happen is that Capone will pass it round a few DCAs, to each of whom you'll send the dispute letter. They'll make lots of threats but Capone know that these agreements are Andrex. Eventually, Capone will sell it to Lowell or a similar bottom-feeder, and they will start. In my case Lowell used Fredrickson - big on posturing, but all mouth - who binned it after one letter, and then nothing.

[letsdothis]

Hi ScarletPimpernel

 

Cap One have already sold this account. When I CCA'ed the DCA they sent me a copy of the letter of assignment from Capital One, dated January 2009

[ScarletPimpernel]

I've never seen an enforceable Capone agreement, so the chances of them producing one are remote. That's probably why they've sold it.

 

Send the dispute letter, and see if they come back with anything else.

[letsdothis]

Hi and thanks again.

 

A N Other reckons that if the T and C's arrive with the prescribed terms on, then the agreement could be classed as enforceable.

 

The snag is, if the T and C's were on the back of the CCA that they have sent, surely it would have been easier for them to photocopy them at the same time?

[The Mould]

Hi and thanks again.

 

A N Other reckons that if the T and C's arrive with the prescribed terms on, then the agreement could be classed as enforceable.

 

The snag is, if the T and C's were on the back of the CCA that they have sent, surely it would have been easier for them to photocopy them at the same time?

 

Hello there letsdothis,

 

That looks looks like an application form to me, are the terms and conditions on the back?

 

What amount of credit was being applied for and what was the apr?

 

Can you post up that assignment notice?

 

What is the amount of debt and what sum are you offering as a Full and Final Settlement payment to the account?

 

Sorry in advance for the questions.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[The Mould]

Letsdothis,

 

Once you sent off this application did you ever receive the credit agreement stating what the credit limit was, the APR etc,etc for you to sign and return?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[letsdothis]

Hello The Mould, thank you for stepping in on this.

 

Hello there letsdothis,

 

That looks looks like an application form to me, are the terms and conditions on the back?

 

That is all they have sent me, no other documents, apart from a letter saying that the T and C's would follow at a later date, once they receive them from Cap One.

 

What amount of credit was being applied for and what was the apr?

 

No idea tbh - iirc it was about £250 but they then raised that to the £2k mark - I obviously mustn't have been that bad a payer originally.

 

Can you post up that assignment notice?

 

This is what they sent me after my original CCA request.

 

 

What is the amount of debt and what sum are you offering as a Full and Final Settlement payment to the account?

 

The amount owed is just under £2K and I can probably get around £500 or so to offer in Full and Final settlement - I was hoping it would be possible at say 25% of the debt owed.

 

Sorry in advance for the questions.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

 

No worries I am grateful for the help.

 

Just so you know, I have also SAR'ed Capital One a few weeks back and they then wrote back telling me that they could not process it as I hadn't provided my signature. I then wrote back telling them that the timer was still counting down, and that there was no ruling that I had to provide a signature. I have still not heard back from them yet.

 

I know there are unlawful charges to claim back, and so I am unsure as to wait for them first or just offer the F&F and then claim back.

[letsdothis]

Letsdothis,

 

Once you sent off this application did you ever receive the credit agreement stating what the credit limit was, the APR etc,etc for you to sign and return?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

 

Hi TM

 

If I did I certainly don't remember doing so. It was a very long time ago.

[The Mould]

At the bottom of the page it says 'once you have signed this agreement, details of how you can cancel this agreement will be sent to you by post'.

 

Exactly just what are you agreeing to on this application form?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[letsdothis]

At the bottom of the page it says 'once you have signed this agreement, details of how you can cancel this agreement will be sent to you by post'.

 

Exactly just what are you agreeing to on this application form?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

 

tbh I don't know. I think (as above) it was about £250 of credit in the form of a card. And then a lifetime of misery to follow afterwards?

[The Mould]

Hello The Mould, thank you for stepping in on this.

 

 

 

That is all they have sent me, no other documents, apart from a letter saying that the T and C's would follow at a later date, once they receive them from Cap One.

 

 

 

No idea tbh - iirc it was about £250 but they then raised that to the £2k mark - I obviously mustn't have been that bad a payer originally.

 

 

 

This is what they sent me after my original CCA request.

 

 

 

 

The amount owed is just under £2K and I can probably get around £500 or so to offer in Full and Final settlement - I was hoping it would be possible at say 25% of the debt owed.

 

 

 

No worries I am grateful for the help.

 

Just so you know, I have also SAR'ed Capital One a few weeks back and they then wrote back telling me that they could not process it as I hadn't provided my signature. I then wrote back telling them that the timer was still counting down, and that there was no ruling that I had to provide a signature. I have still not heard back from them yet.

 

I know there are unlawful charges to claim back, and so I am unsure as to wait for them first or just offer the F&F and then claim back.

 

Clearly they are acting as sub-contractors only, the OC still owns the rights of the contract.

 

Have you notified them that you dispute this account, the debt and the alledged agreement?

 

Also, have you offered a Full and Final to them at all?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[letsdothis]

Clearly they are acting as sub-contractors only, the OC still owns the rights of the contract.

 

Have you notified them that you dispute this account, the debt and the alledged agreement?

 

Also, have you offered a Full and Final to them at all?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

 

Hello TM

 

I sent them (DCA) an account in dispute letter last week. They should have had it by now.

 

I did offer them just under 50% (to be paid over 3 months) and in F&F settlement, to get them off my case. They accepted this and I received it in writing.

 

However, since offering that, I then received the CCA details back and so I rang them to offer 25% and all adverse data to be removed. They subsequently declined. At this point, I then sent the account in dispute letter.

[The Mould]

Hello TM

 

I sent them (DCA) an account in dispute letter last week. They should have had it by now.

 

I did offer them just under 50% (to be paid over 3 months) and in F&F settlement, to get them off my case. They accepted this and I received it in writing.

 

However, since offering that, I then received the CCA details back and so I rang them to offer 25% and all adverse data to be removed. They subsequently declined. At this point, I then sent the account in dispute letter.

 

OK letsdothis,

 

That's good, the Full and Final part, however, did you offer 'without any admission of liability'?

 

I will be back on later tonight, catch up with you then.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[letsdothis]

OK letsdothis,

 

That's good, the Full and Final part, however, did you offer 'without any admission of liability'?

 

I will be back on later tonight, catch up with you then.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

 

Thank you again for your reply.

 

No - It didn't cross my mind to do so. It was all over the phone that I negotiated, not in writing.

 

They did say to me, that I had already accepted that I owed the money, but to the best of my knowledge I had not done so to them.

 

I reminded them, that not once had I admitted to owing it. I just told them that I was aware even if unenforceable, it would not disappear and that I only had two options:

 

1) To wait 4 and a half years - The default would then have dropped off, and then it would become statute barred

 

2) To get a F&F and then get all of the adverse data removed and then it would finally be sorted out once and for all

 

I also told the DCA that I was hoping to reclaim all unfair charges. I also asked them, if the F&F settlement happened, and Cap One paid back any charges to them, that they would then forward them onto me.

 

This was part of the F&F negotiations at 25% of the debt, once I had the alledged unenforceable agreement in my possession. Again, this was declined, as they believe that once the T and C's (to be sent at a later date) appear, that they would then make the 'unenforceable' agreement, 'enforceable' in their opinion.

 

Thanks for your help so far, it's invaluable to have someone with knowledge on your side.

[The Mould]

Letsdothis,

 

Even if they do produce terms and conditions and believe that the agreement is enforceable, they cannot bring an action against you in their own name because they only have in their possession 'Equitable assignment' and not 'Legal assignment'.

 

Have you thought of sending in your settlement offer in writing and waiting for their response? (Minus the third party cheque, but still with the wording 'Without any admission of liability to the amount claimed'.)

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[letsdothis]

Letsdothis,

 

Even if they do produce terms and conditions and believe that the agreement is enforceable, they cannot bring an action against you in their own name because they only have in their possession 'Equitable assignment' and not 'Legal assignment'.

 

Have you thought of sending in your settlement offer in writing and waiting for their response? (Minus the third party cheque, but still with the wording 'Without any admission of liability to the amount claimed'.)

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

 

Hi TM

 

Thank you again for the help.

 

Would you be willing to give me a helping hand on the letter that I would need to write and then send?

 

I am quite happy to have a go at trying the method that you suggest.

[rhodium78]

Even if they do produce terms and conditions and believe that the agreement is enforceable, they cannot bring an action against you in their own name because they only have in their possession 'Equitable assignment' and not 'Legal assignment'.

 

Quick question? How did you arrive at the fact that this is not a legal assignment at all?

 

It clearly states that CapQuest Investments Limited are now the legal assignees and that their agents are CapQuest Debt Recovery Limited. The OC has sold the account to CapQuest Investments Limited.

 

This is a Notice of Assignment and unless there is something wrong with the figures quoted, then this is a valid NoA.

[The Mould]

Quick question? How did you arrive at the fact that this is not a legal assignment at all?

 

It clearly states that CapQuest Investments Limited are now the legal assignees and that their agents are CapQuest Debt Recovery Limited. The OC has sold the account to CapQuest Investments Limited.

 

This is a Notice of Assignment and unless there is something wrong with the figures quoted, then this is a valid NoA.

 

Yes, I beg your pardon, this is a legal notice of assignment, as I read it I mistakenly thought that it was from Capquest and not Capitol one (the oc).

 

Sorry about that, genuine mistake on my part.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[The Mould]

Hi TM

 

Thank you again for the help.

 

Would you be willing to give me a helping hand on the letter that I would need to write and then send?

 

I am quite happy to have a go at trying the method that you suggest.

 

OK letsdothis,

 

Yes I will give you some guidance on your offer letter.

 

By the way, I made a mistake on the assignment notice, sorry about that, I do hope that I have no confused you in any way, genuine mistake by me.

 

Catch you up sometime tommorrow.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[letsdothis]

Yes I will give you some guidance on your offer letter.

 

Cool - Great news!

 

By the way, I made a mistake on the assignment notice, sorry about that, I do hope that I have no confused you in any way, genuine mistake by me.

 

No worries, I don't know the difference between the two of them anyway.

 

Just a little update, I was under the impression that the 'account in dispute' letter had been sent last week. It would appear that this has only been sent today by recorded delivery, so they should hopefully get it tomorrow.

[guzzleguts]

Has the OC served a DN before selling this debt?

 

GG

[letsdothis]

Has the OC served a DN before selling this debt?

 

GG

 

 

Hi Guzzle

 

If they have, I have never seen it. The DCA says that they issued one, but again I have never seen it.