New Regulations ?????

[Disco Dave]

Hi Guys

On the 8th of March Fairfax Solicitors were served with the standard CCA letter.

Last week I finally received the attached letter stating that “Under new regulations” they are only required to provide me “with the terms and conditions” I was “originally presented with and signed”.

As you can see they have supplied a copy of the application form, this has VERY limited information surely this cant represent a legally enforceable document?

What should I do now?

Edited May 6, 2010 by Disco Dave

[sillygirl1]

If all they have is the application form then the account is now in dispute. They cannot proceed to court on this flimsy evidence and now need to FULLY comply under a slightly different section, can't remember it offhand but I am sure somebody will come along shortly and tell you.

[themagician]

Hi Guys

On the 8th of March Fairfax Solicitors were served with the standard CCA letter.

Last week I finally received the attached letter stating that “Under new regulations” they are only required to provide me “with the terms and conditions” I was “originally presented with and signed”.

As you can see they have supplied a copy of the application form, this has VERY limited information surely this cant represent a legally enforceable document?

What should I do now?

acc in despute is not automatic,you must send them the acc in despute letter from the debt collection library,think its 20.send rec delivery do not sign only ever print your name,keep copies of all correspondance.

[Guest HeftyHippo]

at the same time, ask them what new regulations they refer to, then complain about them when they answer. There are no new relevant regulations, so either they'll lie, or, more likely, ignore the question, in which case your complaint is their failure to answer a straight forward question to allow you to check your position and resolve the difficulty with the minimum of conflict

[harrassed senior]

Methinks they are referring to the Manchester Test Case which allows to them to produce a reconstructed Agreement. However, they still have to produce the original signed Agreement in Court. Therefore there are NO new regulations just a different 'angle' for them. They still have to comply with the CCA request, but we have been adding the following to the recomended request to clarify :

 

If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of the CCA you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists and in what form (microfiche) etc.

 

Follow the advice as above.

[Hardupnotfedup]

They would have to supply the original in court anyway, so why not let you have a copy now, the truth is they don't have it.

[debt4get]

send em this

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Date:

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. This was signed for as delivered on the **DATE**

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE** (12+2 days after you made the initial request).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[angry cat]

What is the date of the agreement?

 

sorry image too small, cannot see date!

[cerberusalert]

Can you repost them via tinypic? Just copy & paste the URLs back here.

[Guest HeftyHippo]

They would have to supply the original in court anyway, so why not let you have a copy now, the truth is they don't have it.

 

It isn't safe to assume the don't have it just because they didn't send it.

 

2 of my creditors sent recon agreements and argued fiercely they had satisfied my Cca request (WHICH THEY HAD). When I made a SAR, they both produced agreements, one possibly unenforceable, the other very much looking enforceable.

 

In your case, they haven't complied with your request, but don't assume they can't. Some lenders are just plain awkward refusing to do anything they are not legally obliged to, and even then, arguing about it.

 

However, they still have to produce the original signed Agreement in Court.

The current debate from some quarters is that the legislation says they "should" produce the agreement which is different from "must". As a result they try hard to avoid doing so.

 

If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of the CCA you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists and in what form (microfiche) etc.

Where is this from? I know the OFT in their knee jerk reaction to being kicked around court announced they were planningto make this disclosure part of their guide, but that was it. I have asked this question to creditors several time and it is ignored. Without knowing what compels them to answer it other than politeness, it isn't possible to proceed with it.

 

On a minor point, as someone pointed out in one of my threads, the 'original' is just that. It isn't possible to have the original in microfiche or any other reproduction. It's either original or a copy.

Edited May 6, 2010 by HeftyHippo

[cerberusalert]

Another reason they send out 'true copies' is to save them having to retrieve archived files.

[debt4get]

if you are happy that agreement is unenforceable and it is almost impossible for us to read then send the in dispute letter...but as poster has previously said dont assume just because they sent you some bovine excrement that they dont have the original..its letter ping pong with these people some time...you can either make a stand or roll over...me i make a stand

[Disco Dave]

Hopfully this is readable

 

Can you repost them via tinypic? Just copy & paste the URLs back here.

 

 

http://i44.tinypic.com/2wfpik0.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/mt08yv.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/29ftefs.jpg

 

I look forward to your help and advice

Edited May 6, 2010 by Disco Dave
Personal details shown

[cashins]

What agreement???

 

Send the account in dispute

 

David

[cerberusalert]

A solictor should know that to fulfill a CCA request they should provide a 'true copy' of the CCA, a copy of the T&Cs at the time the agreement was signed + a copy of the present T&Cs.