logbook loans - please help, I'm panicing...

[SeriouslyUnhappyBunny]

Dear all

 

I am new to this forum, have found all the informaion very interesting, and would like any advice you can offer!

 

After months of saving, I bought a 125cc motorbike for £500 from a 16 year old girl at the end of february - everything looked above board but as I've never bought vehicles from anyone apart from a trusted dealer (I only get cheap old bangers anyway) I did not carry out a hpi check - it just didn't occur to me.

 

Came home Friday afternoon to find a letter from logbook loans, saying that they they are the legal owners of the bike and will be coming to reposses the vehicle, please could I contact them to arrange collection. As you can imagine, I was a bit surprised... It's taken the guts of £1000 to get the bike sorted and me on the road, after test, insurnace etc - money I can ill afford to throw away. I called them, and they have given me 12 days to seek out legal advice. If I want to keep the bike I have to pay them £500, in one or 2 installments, in a certain time period.

 

The bill of sale was attached to the letter. I read through one of the threads on this forum, which details everything that must be in the document, and it seems that everything is correct - it is registered by supreme court, within the 7 day, and everything else that should be on there is - APART from the archaic block of text that was following the link.

 

Does this render the BoS invalid?

 

I also read that the OFT have revoked their license. Presumably they have appealed this as they are still trading. Does anyone know any more on this? I have hidden the bike, what can they do if they can't find it, can they take anything else to the value of the bike, or can I get away with just hiding it until the appeal has gone through?

 

I am also curious as to why I've suddenly been stung by this. The bike was new nov 07. The BoS against the bike was agreed on the 22nd Feb 2008. According to the log book, there have been 3 former keeper, so I'm the 4th person to own it. I called the girl who I bought if from, and she was I believe very genuinely surprised by it. She had had the bike from august 09, and having just turned 17 sold the bike to pay for driving lessons, never having riden it. Is it possible that logbook loans, having had their license revoked, are trying to call in everything before they potentially get closed down?

 

I will be talking to C.A.B first thing on monday morning, and will also take the matter to OFT to verify if the document is legal or not. As well as hiding the bike, I don't know what more I can do at this point.

 

Please, if you have any avice to offer it woul be gratfully received. I don't want to give up the bike, but don't want to get any black marks on my record either. Thank you x

[SeriouslyUnhappyBunny]

Hey there

 

Been reading more posts regarding this company... not pretty reading

 

To clarify some further points, it is Nine Reigons Trading t/a Logbook

 

There are 2 signatures -

Borrowers : Graeme Cox

In the presence of : Gary Kember, his signature, his address (which is the same as the companys address) and his occupation is underwritter.

 

I thought there had to be an independent witness to validate?

 

And can I confirm that they need a court order to seize the vehicle?

 

Thanks very much, I hope this company goes down in flames

[cctv engineer]

Hey there

 

Been reading more posts regarding this company... not pretty reading

 

To clarify some further points, it is Nine Reigons Trading t/a Logbook

 

There are 2 signatures -

Borrowers : Graeme Cox

In the presence of : Gary Kember, his signature, his address (which is the same as the companys address) and his occupation is underwritter.

 

I thought there had to be an independent witness to validate?

 

And can I confirm that they need a court order to seize the vehicle?

 

Thanks very much, I hope this company goes down in flames

 

 

Hi. can you take a look at the logbook and see who was the owner before you. if it is the girl you bought the bike from then you win.

 

a 16 year old CAN NOT take out a logbook loan and can not enter into any hp aggrement. the logbook must be in the same name as the person lending the money.

now lbl will still chase for the bike so you need to see a solicitor with the facts i have given you. for them to get the bill of sale void.

[trooper68]

Dear all

 

I am new to this forum, have found all the informaion very interesting, and would like any advice you can offer!

 

After months of saving, I bought a 125cc motorbike for £500 from a 16 year old girl at the end of february - everything looked above board but as I've never bought vehicles from anyone apart from a trusted dealer (I only get cheap old bangers anyway) I did not carry out a hpi check - it just didn't occur to me.

 

Came home Friday afternoon to find a letter from logbook loans, saying that they they are the legal owners of the bike and will be coming to reposses the vehicle, please could I contact them to arrange collection. As you can imagine, I was a bit surprised... It's taken the guts of £1000 to get the bike sorted and me on the road, after test, insurnace etc - money I can ill afford to throw away. I called them, and they have given me 12 days to seek out legal advice. If I want to keep the bike I have to pay them £500, in one or 2 installments, in a certain time period.

 

The bill of sale was attached to the letter. I read through one of the threads on this forum, which details everything that must be in the document, and it seems that everything is correct - it is registered by supreme court, within the 7 day, and everything else that should be on there is - APART from the archaic block of text that was following the link.

 

Does this render the BoS invalid?

 

I also read that the OFT have revoked their license. Presumably they have appealed this as they are still trading. Does anyone know any more on this? I have hidden the bike, what can they do if they can't find it, can they take anything else to the value of the bike, or can I get away with just hiding it until the appeal has gone through?

 

I am also curious as to why I've suddenly been stung by this. The bike was new nov 07. The BoS against the bike was agreed on the 22nd Feb 2008. According to the log book, there have been 3 former keeper, so I'm the 4th person to own it. I called the girl who I bought if from, and she was I believe very genuinely surprised by it. She had had the bike from august 09, and having just turned 17 sold the bike to pay for driving lessons, never having riden it. Is it possible that logbook loans, having had their license revoked, are trying to call in everything before they potentially get closed down?

 

I will be talking to C.A.B first thing on monday morning, and will also take the matter to OFT to verify if the document is legal or not. As well as hiding the bike, I don't know what more I can do at this point.

 

Please, if you have any avice to offer it woul be gratfully received. I don't want to give up the bike, but don't want to get any black marks on my record either. Thank you x

 

 

Welcome,

 

I looks like LBL have used the DVLA to find out the new owner-you, who's name is on the BoS/CCA? LBL has been trying to get money from them. Besides YOU own it. My advise would be to contact a sol ASAP.

Its more likely that the 17 year old did not tell the DVLA she has it, why would she, she never used it...

 

They cannot take anything of yours full stop other than the bike, which they will need a court order, keep it hidden as they send agents to nab it.

 

Did LBL send you the paperwork?

 

Now, Do not give LBL your phone number, do everything by letter only.

With LBL the account will go up on charges, phone calls etc etc.. remember this has nothing to do with you-you own the bike and have not taken on some else's debt.

 

trooper68

[SeriouslyUnhappyBunny]

Hi there

 

The girl did not take the loan out unfortunately, it was 3 owners back, in 2008 - it started with the original keeper, was then sold on to someone else, then sold on to the 16 year old girl, and finally bought by me.

 

I have gone to see a solicitor, after doing quite lot of research in to this company and bill of sales. He agreed with everything that I had thought of. Firstly I believe that they need to prove to me that the loan was defaulted on - they cannot prove this because of the data protection act, so I can keep arguing that point. As far as I know, the original borrower may have paid the loan in full - unlikely, but how am I to know? Maybe the person he sold the bike to also paid the money they wanted - I just can't tell. With a reputable loan company this wouldn't happen, but in the case of LBL I wouldn't put anything past them!

Secondly I need to get a copy of the original registration document - they have sent me a very vauge photo copy of a document and you can't see anything or a registration number. I don't trust it. So I am writing to them ask again for a clear copy. Or at least the rigistration number so I can obtain a copy myself from the high court.

 

My thinking is at the moment I am in control of the situation as the bike is still in my custody - hidden away - so they have to verify the points mentioned above.

 

Does anyone know how the appeal is coming along? It's been going on some months now.

 

Thank you for your advice, anything is useful at this point!

[cctv engineer]

Hi there

 

The girl did not take the loan out unfortunately, it was 3 owners back, in 2008 - it started with the original keeper, was then sold on to someone else, then sold on to the 16 year old girl, and finally bought by me.

 

I have gone to see a solicitor, after doing quite lot of research in to this company and bill of sales. He agreed with everything that I had thought of. Firstly I believe that they need to prove to me that the loan was defaulted on - they cannot prove this because of the data protection act, so I can keep arguing that point. As far as I know, the original borrower may have paid the loan in full - unlikely, but how am I to know? Maybe the person he sold the bike to also paid the money they wanted - I just can't tell. With a reputable loan company this wouldn't happen, but in the case of LBL I wouldn't put anything past them!

Secondly I need to get a copy of the original registration document - they have sent me a very vauge photo copy of a document and you can't see anything or a registration number. I don't trust it. So I am writing to them ask again for a clear copy. Or at least the rigistration number so I can obtain a copy myself from the high court.

 

My thinking is at the moment I am in control of the situation as the bike is still in my custody - hidden away - so they have to verify the points mentioned above.

 

Does anyone know how the appeal is coming along? It's been going on some months now.

 

Thank you for your advice, anything is useful at this point!

 

 

the reg document will not help you much. your fight is with the bill of sale. you say you have a copy of the bill of sale. can you post it on here ???

Edited May 16, 2010 by cctv engineer

[trooper68]

Hi there

 

The girl did not take the loan out unfortunately, it was 3 owners back, in 2008 - it started with the original keeper, was then sold on to someone else, then sold on to the 16 year old girl, and finally bought by me.

 

I have gone to see a solicitor, after doing quite lot of research in to this company and bill of sales. He agreed with everything that I had thought of. Firstly I believe that they need to prove to me that the loan was defaulted on - they cannot prove this because of the data protection act, so I can keep arguing that point. As far as I know, the original borrower may have paid the loan in full - unlikely, but how am I to know? Maybe the person he sold the bike to also paid the money they wanted - I just can't tell. With a reputable loan company this wouldn't happen, but in the case of LBL I wouldn't put anything past them!

Secondly I need to get a copy of the original registration document - they have sent me a very vauge photo copy of a document and you can't see anything or a registration number. I don't trust it. So I am writing to them ask again for a clear copy. Or at least the rigistration number so I can obtain a copy myself from the high court.

 

My thinking is at the moment I am in control of the situation as the bike is still in my custody - hidden away - so they have to verify the points mentioned above.

 

Does anyone know how the appeal is coming along? It's been going on some months now.

 

Thank you for your advice, anything is useful at this point!

 

 

HI

 

You did the right thing, you spoke to s SOL, he is aware, now it was the first owner, so two other owners later they are demanding money. Keep the bike hidden for now, YOU are in control, you could tell them to take a runing jump-but that will solve-now. Let me look in to the right of ownership, i think there is something in that-that might shoot them down, that you can quote to them in a letter.

 

trooper68

[trooper68]

OK i've done a bit of digging.

 

You may be covered under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as an "Innocent Buyer" it boils down to mean that you purchased the bike from another person or persons who had no idea that there was no " intrest" or monies owed under a previous agreement. Good Title.

 

1. Get a statement from the previous owner you purchased from. Detailing that they had no clue to the claim.

2. Furnish your sol with the statement and get him/her to look in to the Consumer Credit Act- "Good Title".

3. You may also streangthan your case under the Human Rights Act- Protical 1 section 1-the right to use your possessions.

 

 

I am wondering how you got another persons BoS and CCA? this is clearly a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

As there has been a number of owners since the loan was taken out it think you have a very strong case. Get in touch with your Sol asap.

 

trooper68

Edited May 17, 2010 by trooper68

[ergates]

Check this out, especially paragraphs 16 to 21 and 43 Welcome Financial Services Ltd v Nine Regions Ltd. (t/a Log Book Loans) [2010] EWHC B3 (Mercantile) (22 April 2010)

[timpo1981]

7 Miss Scott subsequently, in breach of the terms of her agreement with the Appellant, entered into an agreement with the Respondent three days later on the 20th July 2007 whereby she assigned the Vehicle to the Respondent pursuant to a Bill of Sale dated 20thJuly 2007 as security for a loan of £1286.06 at 347.6% APR.

 

9 The Bill of Sale was registered with the Supreme Court of England and Wales on the 29th July 2007

If everything I have read on here regarding BOS's is correct, then surely all of the respondents case was irrelevant anyway as the BOS was void as it wasn't registered within 7 clear days, and they should never have taken the vehicle in the first place. Or am I missing something?

Also if it was void how comes these so called barristers never picked up on it?

[BeenhadbyLBL]

Will try again can not copy and paste for some reason sorry

Edited May 19, 2010 by BeenhadbyLBL
not reading correctly

[cctv engineer]

7 Miss Scott subsequently, in breach of the terms of her agreement with the Appellant, entered into an agreement with the Respondent three days later on the 20th July 2007 whereby she assigned the Vehicle to the Respondent pursuant to a Bill of Sale dated 20thJuly 2007 as security for a loan of £1286.06 at 347.6% APR.

 

9 The Bill of Sale was registered with the Supreme Court of England and Wales on the 29th July 2007

 

If everything I have read on here regarding BOS's is correct, then surely all of the respondents case was irrelevant anyway as the BOS was void as it wasn't registered within 7 clear days, and they should never have taken the vehicle in the first place. Or am I missing something?

Also if it was void how comes these so called barristers never picked up on it?

 

 

Hi timpo. looking at the dates it is within the 7 days. 23rd july 29th of july at the court.

 

what is interesting is welcome put interest on the car on the 20th of july and the hpi company also let nine regions put interest on the car on the 23rd july. how did nine regions get the hpi company to do this. it should have been blocked with welcomes interest already on the car.

[timpo1981]

Hi timpo. looking at the dates it is within the 7 days. 23rd july 29th of july at the court.

 

what is interesting is welcome put interest on the car on the 20th of july and the hpi company also let nine regions put interest on the car on the 23rd july. how did nine regions get the hpi company to do this. it should have been blocked with welcomes interest already on the car.

 

OK Now I'm confused! Does the bill of sale heve to be registered within 7 working days or 7 clear days from the date of signing? As I was told that it is 7 clear days which means it would have had to be registered by the 27th. As in the case above the BOS was signed on the 20th but not registered until the 29th. Which is 9 days. I'm not being argumentative I genuinely want to get this right!

 

Also the way I read it was LBL (Being the respondent) put interest on the car on the 20th, but welcome (The Appellant) didn't do it until the 23rd, which was after lbl.

 

12 It is common ground that, in accordance with their usual business practices, the Respondent registered its interest in the Vehicle on the HPI Limited ..."the Register") on the 20th July 2007 and the Appellant registered its interest on the Register on the 23rd July 2007.

 

God knows why it took welcome almost a week to register interest. I must admit though I don't know how the register works so wouldn't know if one should block the other. Anyone???

 

Further to the above, how did the debtor manage to get a log book loan in the first place, as she had only had the car for 3 days before getting the lbl, therefore couldn't have had the V5 which lbl insist on?

[timpo1981]

BTW does that case have any relevance to OP's situation? Or more significantly to all those who have had there cars Stolen by lbl?

[BeenhadbyLBL]

Just to add another experience, I applied for a Log book loan on the 21/01/2010 at approx 11am via the internet site Log Book Loans, I received a call from a man at approx 1300 hrs agreeing I could have a loan of £1500.00 and I should attend a meeting at a Money Shop Worthing at 5.15pm

I attended this meeting and met with a V????? A???? From LBL who immediately on my arrival asked me to stand in front of my car and he took a series of photos, he then hurried me into the Money Shop and asked me to sign many documents I produced passports, driving licences and utility bills which he had copied, it was all done in a great rush as he stated the shop closed very soon.

V/ A took my spare car key, Log Book and also copied my insurance details. He then abruptly left and the lady behind the counter asked for the cheque A had given me and then gave me my money less commission, this money was already counted out and I signed various papers and was again photographed and left the shop.

Documents given to have pages missing 4-24 and 29-40 these were never given to me.I never fully understood the agreement I signed as I felt very ill, 2 days later I suffered a stroke and remained in hospital for 6 weeks, the interest rates were never explained and in my opinion I was duped by the hurry of the situation.

I have now paid for my mistakes and settled the outstanding payments on my car a total of £3097.00 for a loan of £1500 some 12 weeks later and have retrieved my car after a lot of problems, on the day you settle your debt to LBL the seized car becomes your property immediately, I had to wait as I was informed my car had been in an accident whilst at BCA Paddock Woods where another collection of cars from LBL were being kept

My car was seized very early one morning by a company called Anglia, I am lucky that my neighbour filmed the whole thing, I sent a complaint to LBL and received 3 statements, 1 from Anglia, one from British Car Auctions and one from LBL all contradicting each other

The very first thing I noticed was Anglia saying my car was winched onto the recovery truck, this was an absolute lie as witnessed and filmed by two neighbours, it was driven onto the truck by the truck driver. I gave the Anglia agent my only key as LBL held the spare key and at no time did either of the agents search the vehicle in my presence, if Anglia or anyone else turns up film it, photograph it or record it and give the evidence to the OFT as explained at the end of this statement.

Anglia are licensed to collect debt but when it comes to vehicles I believe Anglia would need to produce an order from the court to remove a car, Anglia produced no document.I believe Log Book Loans are wrong in removing my car and that LBL failed to adhere to the CCA 1974 act that states LBL need an order from the court to remove my car none was produced by any agent from Anglia and that LBL failed to release my car on the day settlement was received by LBL I was informed my car had been in an accident whilst at BCA Paddock Wood.

LBL sent me a settlement figure dated 06/05/2010 for £2,946.06 I paid £3097.00 on the 06/05/2010 they still charged me extra £297.56 on the same day 06/05/2010 for storage. This is clear extortion

My story can go on and on and I urge you all please do report LBL to the Office of Fair Trading, keep all documents and log all calls, give them all to the OFT as believe me LBL do not want you to pay they want your car as they can sell it and take any amount for settlement and still charge you if there is not enough money.

Trading Standards really are no help, the Police well forget them but always report everything and get an incident number, CAB are quite helpful. Me I am better and full of fight and fight I will to see LBL in court.

LBL are crooks of the highest order yet we use them at our peril.

[trooper68]

OK Now I'm confused! Does the bill of sale heve to be registered within 7 working days or 7 clear days from the date of signing? As I was told that it is 7 clear days which means it would have had to be registered by the 27th. As in the case above the BOS was signed on the 20th but not registered until the 29th. Which is 9 days. I'm not being argumentative I genuinely want to get this right!

 

Also the way I read it was LBL (Being the respondent) put interest on the car on the 20th, but welcome (The Appellant) didn't do it until the 23rd, which was after lbl.

 

12 It is common ground that, in accordance with their usual business practices, the Respondent registered its interest in the Vehicle on the HPI Limited ..."the Register") on the 20th July 2007 and the Appellant registered its interest on the Register on the 23rd July 2007.

 

God knows why it took welcome almost a week to register interest. I must admit though I don't know how the register works so wouldn't know if one should block the other. Anyone???

 

Further to the above, how did the debtor manage to get a log book loan in the first place, as she had only had the car for 3 days before getting the lbl, therefore couldn't have had the V5 which lbl insist on?

 

 

ITS VOID 7 CLEAR DAYS. (as long as its not a national holiday)

 

trooper68

[trooper68]

Guys-please please create your own post, highjacking other posts can make things confusing...

 

trooper68

[ergates]

If everything I have read on here regarding BOS's is correct, then surely all of the respondents case was irrelevant anyway as the BOS was void as it wasn't registered within 7 clear days, and they should never have taken the vehicle in the first place. Or am I missing something?

Also if it was void how comes these so called barristers never picked up on it?

 

It might well be-but as the case was between welcome and lbl it wouldnt be relevant. From your point of view the case is important because it means lbl arent classed as private purchasers but you are, so you get the protection of the act but lbl doesnt-you own the bike not lbl.