Employment Tribunal -- past cases

[Mistermind]

A friend of mine is in the process of taking the black horse bank to the Employment Tribunal for bullying harassment, constructive dismissal. She thinks it probable the black horse will make an internal offer for settlement to avoid adverse publicity.

 

She wants to know at what level of £ compensation she should call it quits and accept the bird in hand rather than risk the uncertainties and hassle of the legal route, having nil legal background herself.

 

Can any legal eagles help, where on internet or in legal libraries or purchaseable books, can she read up on statistics of similar past cases. How many succeeded, how many failed, what was the average award by the Tribunal, the highest, the lowest? Etc etc. Generally for a complete novice to study the form before diving into legal deep waters.

 

On another tack, is there any way from similar (?) sources she can suss out which law firm had a good record conducting such cases? Could the Law Society give her pointers? Schools and hospitals have measureable and published performance tables. I suppose it would be too much to hope the legal profession also monitors its own profession, discreetly? If star performers cannot be pinpointed, how do star firms attain stardom?

[Bookworm]

When I represented my husband for his Employment Tribunal, the CAB had a LOT of info.

 

Anything beyond that, I really don't know where to start looking, tbh.

[Mistermind]

Court transcript of case proceedings would be of great interest, but Employment Tribunal even have a court stenographer? Or are proceedings tape recorded? Are proceedings confidential, seeing that in a democracy transparency of the judiciary is expected except when held in camera.

 

Thanks to all in advance. My friend consulted a lawyer for 2 hours, at a cost of £380 plus VAT, but did not get enough answers (she did not ask the right questions).

 

Phew! Justice is expensive. Maybe I should have trained to be a barrister, too late now.

[martin's little pupil]

Hi, Mistermind,

Im not sure if this will be of any help to you but my daughter is in the throws of an employment tribunal as we speak for exactly the same reasons as yourself.

This is the route we have gone down and have found it extreamly helpfull has we had no knolledge either.

Telephone the Community Legal Services on 0845-3454345, they will go through your details and tell you firstly if you are entitled to any legal aid, if you are (which we were) then they will give you two hours of legal advice on your individual case with either a legal advisor, solicitor or trainee solicitor and will then do all the legal representation (letter writing) on your behalf, up to the point of the tribunal day cos like any company they won't represent you in court, thats up to you to then choose your own representation. In my Daughters case, im going to represent her. By the way, when you ring the above number, they are just the call centre for the assessment of legal aid, they then use about five different company's of legal advisors, our's is Capita and they are brilliant. We have fully trained solicitor of many years experience.

To find these people all we did was type into google (employment tribunals) and it came up with some very informative sites.

Hope this may have been of some use or help to you.

Keep us posted. Good Luck!!!

Tracey... :) PS, Please exuse any spelling mistakes. pps, have just seen the date of this post and feel that this info maybe too late for you. SORRY!!!!!!!!!....

[Guest S J]

Damages for constructive dismissal are predominantly well settled areas of law. There have been several cases within the last two years about bullying and harrassment including one this year, which has resulted in record levels of damages for harrassment within the employment field.

 

Those cases provide useful guidance as to gauaging the measure of damages. They are potentially complex. It may be better to invest in some legal advice on the point (and I dont mean a CAB)...

 

Also, it is possible that the offer will come in the form of a compromise agreement. Legal advice will be needed and the agreement may even make some financial provisions for seeking legal advice on the agreement.

[martin's little pupil]

Thankyou for your reply,

Im not entirely sure what you mean by it (typical dumb blonde ya see) sounds tooooo technical to me. Please be gentle with me when answering, very fragile and cower with harsh words.lol,lol:) :) ...

[Guest S J]

My post was in response to Misterminds issue. If you fnd my post difficult to follow, then how will you represent your daughter at a tribunal, let alone conducting the examination, cross examination and closing arguments...

[martin's little pupil]

My appologies SJ,

For replying to the wrong post but maybe if you was to address it to that person there would have been no mistake in who you were addressing the post to??? i felt your remarks were uncalled for and i was only taking a lighthearted view on things. but im quite sure i will manage with or without representation and will take advice on that nearer the time. i have an excellent employment law solicitor at present as i said earlier and maybe it won't even go to the tribunal day as many don't.

 

Thanks for your comments though

no hard feelings...

[Whisperwolf]

I can see both sides of the argument here. SJ is making the point that in a courtroom environment (which is, in essence, what an employment tribunal is - a kind of courtroom environment) it's a real dangerous place to be, especially if you are representing someone else.

 

If you can't understand replies here, then you might well be vulnerable to tricks and traps laid by the opposition in such an environment, and therefore would not be representing the best interests of your client.

 

I represented someone to tribuneral on one occasion, so I know what he's talking about. We lost, mainly because my "client" on that occasion hadn't told me everything about the case, and she was caught on CCTV on several occasions doing what she was summarily dismissed for. When the security manager replayed the footage it didn't give us a leg to stand on, but had she told me at the beginning (and had I known the questions to ask her - my field is more computers than law) about the entire situation I'd have advised her differently.

 

I'm aware someone reported SJ's post, but having looked at it and seen the context in which it was written I understand what he's saying - if a little bluntly - and agree with it.

[martin's little pupil]

Dear whisperwolf,

Can i please just say, as far as im concerned, there is NO ARGUMENT and there never was, it was a complete and utter missunderstanding, and once i had read the post to whom he was addressing it to, once more, i had fully understood exactly what he was saying and to be fair it was late at night but i did not expect an answer that was quite so blunt as it was, and in all fairness once again, SJ does not know me.

I would also like to make this point VERY CLEAR I sincerely hope you don't think it was me that reported SJ cos im very new to this site and am still trying to navigate my way around it. i only found out yesterday how to use a thread and would not even know HOW to report you. YOU HAVE MY SINCERE WORD ON THAT... I haven't even got much knolledge of the pc yet.

But there is one thing im very certain of and thats, if my daughters solicitor feels she needs representation by a solicitor then she will be given the very best chance she has, cos, she and me has a Mother have had a year of hell with this BULLY. Now can we please put this to bed and get on with the more finer and important things in life. like i said in an earlier post, NO HARD FEELINGS!!!XXX SJ PLEASE ACCEPT MY APPOLOGIES. :) PS, Can i just please say, this experience has certainly knocked my confidence and i will think twice before replying again. im not here to offend anyone and would rather do a good turn in life and certainly not a bad one!!!...

[Guest S J]

No need to apologise. I dont consider anything you have said to warrant an apology. As for someone reporting me....I am shocked.....me....reported...who on earth would want to do a thing like that...

 

I'm sure that its healthy sign as to the effective operation of such a forum...

[martin's little pupil]

Thanks for your reply SJ.

You sound like a very decent person and im truly sorry that we got off on the wrong footing. but i would like to ask you a question if i may??? firstly i'd like to say that if someone has reported you, in what way do they let you know? is it via an email? or have they got somewhere on here that tells you?? as i would like to check this out to see if they have done the same to me. and secondly, i feel that if someone has got a problem with who-ever and feels the need to report them, then it should not be shielded by the site and the person should be brave enough to disscuss it and talk it through and certainly not be allowed to hide behind closed doors as i feel that this kind of behaviour could happen to any inocent member on here for no good reason.

 

Concerned :o :o

Tracey...

[Guest S J]

I dont believe we have got off to a bad start...sometimes a little constructive friction is healthy...Not sure how the complaint system works but I would imagine there are some details on here somewhere....

[Bookworm]

On the right hand side top corner of each post, there is a "warning" triangle, if you hover your mouse over it, you will see it says "report bad post". If you click on it, it opens a message box, and the message gets e-mailed to the moderating team, who act on it (or not, as warranted ;-)).

 

Now, can we put this to bed, as we are effectively hijacking the original poster's thread? Thanks.

[Mistermind]

Please, no love spats in here between ourselves lol, we need to unite and dish out some harassment back to bad employers.

 

Unquestionably sharp barristers would try to browbeat and entrap the opponent. But I would like to see them try it on me, but I am not going to court for myself. My friend is terrified, as she does not really have a way with words, and there is a risk barristers will run rings round her. Her time limit for Employment Tribunal has expired (one year), and she now proposes to go the county court route, using the anti-stalker legislation which won £600K damages for the Deutsche Bank girl.

 

Will she be represented in court by a barrister (at £2K per day, gulp)?

[Bookworm]

Mistermind, please pm username Stephen, he might be able to give you some good advice. ;-)

[martin's little pupil]

Hi, Mistermind,

Firstly, I'd like to apologise for taking over your thread the other day. I don't know if this is of any help to you but i have just spoken to my employment solicitor today and she said there are plenty of barristers that will give voluntry help if you can't aford one as long as they have at least 3 to 4 weeks notice or failing that, it's not ideal, but there is she said, always, no-win, no-fee, solicitors. also if it's any help to either you or your friend, i have obtained a couple of phone numbers from her for tribunals, i don't no where you are located in the country but if you ring Leicester on 01162550099 or Bedford on 01234351306 you can ask if there are tribunals held in your town and where the venue is located cos the public are allowed to sit in to observe.

Tracey...

[Mistermind]

Bookworm, many thanks, have PM'ed userid Stephen.

 

Martin's LP -- thanks 4 your reply which has been passed on. My friend is based south of London, up against the Black Horse. She approached one law firm, and guess what they represent the Black Horse, so no go.

 

She has now missed the one-year limit for Employment Tribunal constructive dismissal option now, so it will have to be the anti-stalker law used by the Deutsche Bank girl to win £600K damages. Would that be County Court? Presumably with the less informal, more severe court and procedure, the appellant would have to be represented by a ruinously expensive barrister. I checked up on internet some stats. I believe for Emp Trib 70% of cases were settled before Tribunal judgment. In cases where the respondent employer is so unscared of the verdict that they persist all the way, the outcomes were only 14-to-10 in favour of the appellant. From this I infer that the majority of strong appellant cases get settled out of court. Where a case goes all the way, the appellant needs to brace herself for a 40% chance of adverse verdict -- plus the employer's legal costs.

[Mistermind]

Dear Martin's LP --

 

when are you going to reach the crunch of Tribunal appearance?

 

What was the timescale of the various milestones?

 

Do you think the respondent will offer to settle before court?

 

How are the family going to help decide what settlement figure to accept, or to reject and go on for an uncertain award, or even defeat (god help us) in Tribunal?

[martin's little pupil]

Hi Mistermind,

We have only just got past the grievence letter stage, the solicitor said yesterday that it will be at least another 4 months before we go to tribunal. She has just filed the claim now. yes we believe she will settle out of court as she has made far too many mistakes in the case so far and also written one's, that she has basically hung herself with. We also have many txt messages saved as evidence from her own asst manager dropping her right in the sh....t that she's not aware of yet.

Tracey...

[artoo]

I am not clear what the question is here.

The average employment tribunal claim that succeeds pays out less than 6 months net pay (about £6,000).

But you need to work out the value of her claim, if she wins and compare any offer to that. She will only get damages for her loss of earnings from the date of dismissal to the point where she finds a new job paying the same or more. Unless there is some discrimination there is no loss for injury to feelings etc.

Also you say 1 year limitation period.... there is a 3 month limitation period for most claims! Be careful not to miss it or the tribunal will just throw the case out.

There is no official note or recording of tribunals, it's up to you to make your own note.

let me know if you have any specific questions.

[martin's little pupil]

Artoo,

Sorry, but is this being addressed to me MLP or mistermind???

[Mistermind]

A more general point --

Do judges have guidelines on the amount of compensation award?

Do they have wide discretion?

 

The question is asked because of the wide disparity of verdicts perceived by the general public, but then again some lawyers report a narrow range of awards. In the absence of solid knowledge my friend would not know when to settle. All info offered from the front line much appreciated.

 

The case of the Deutsches Bank girl broke new ground, as I heard it was the first harassment lawsuit to use anti-stalker legislation against the employer for condoning an environment which resulted in persistent persecution. The award in that case was as far from Employment Tribunal awards as sky is from earth. No doubt the result surprised the girl -- and her lawyers.

[artoo]

heh, it's addressed to anyone interested!

The basis of the compensation is set out in the Employment Rights Act 1996, there is a vast amount of case law that refines those principles and limits the discretion of the tribunal chairman.

The basis position to just work out what you have lost in terms of lost wages, loss of benefits, pensions, cost of job hunting etc... and how long it will take for you to be in a position of earning the same level. On the whole Tribunals don’t give more than 6 months wages. The huge cases you hear reported from time to time are either very high earners (Deutsches Bank) or people who are unlikely to ever return to work following discrimination.

 

The Deutsches Bank case was not a Tribunal case - it was a high court case and it will be very rare for those cases to succeed.