old accounting firm i used back in 2000/2004 has lodged a claim against me

[burmafriday]

hi

An old accounting firm i used back in 2000/2004 has lodged a claim against me. They were accountants for my company which ceased trading in 2003. Particulars of claim is

(1) a debt of £ 4810.50 arising from agreements in respect of goods and services particulars of which appear in invoices in April 2004 and

(2) Interest pursuant to S.69 of the County Cort Act 1984 interest particulars 01/06/2004 2096 days @ 8% on 4810.50 # 2200.80 Invoice o. 593738

 

I no longer have details of the agreement or invoices. I ceased using this firm of accountants since 2004.

 

I have not received any reminders or notices.

 

the claim is now made against me personally as opposed to my ex.Ltd company.

 

As the issue date of the claim was 01/03/2010 - i submitted an acknowledgement of Service onm line, just now.

 

I need them to give me copies of allinvoices/agreements i signed

 

I spoke with one of the partners last year. He told me I was personally liable for their fees becuase there is a clause which stated this in the agreement I signed originally. I do not remember reading this.

 

But it was some years ago.

 

In the light of the above - pl advise what I can do to defend this claim and what steps i need to take.

 

Thank you very much

BF

[creditcardmug]

1. you need to get a copy of that agreement from them

to see whether you are personally liable, do you have it?, if not you can force them to provide

 

Is the company formally wound up i.e. does not exist?

 

Sounds to me like they are p***ing in the wind, for what its worth

[DonkeyB]

If there is a genuine debt, they have clearly just realised it is about to become statute barred - hence the urgent activity.

 

Can't be a very good accountant if they missed the fact that someone hadn't paid them nearly five grand for six years...

 

Also, if your company was wound up in 2003, why were they still doing work for you in 2004?

[burmafriday]

Hi CCM and DB - many thanks for replying

 

CCM -

a) i hv written to their solicitors (Thomas Higgins) asking for copies of everything.

b) Yes company ceased trading and was struck off by Companies house in 2003 - so does not exist.

well i hope they are doing as you say.

 

DB - i think the invoice in Apr 2004 was for work done in 2003 - i wont know till i get the documentation.

 

As I said - i hv done an on-line Acknowledgement of service - which means i now have another 14 days to put in a defence - which i cannot do until i receive copies of documentation from Thomas Higgins.

 

do you know of any forms/guidances/site i can visit to do some research so i can fight this as i am pretty broke at the moment and cannot afford a solicitor.

 

one thing that really bugs me is as i said in my posting - i spoke with one of the partners of the accountants last year - who said that there is a clause in the agreement i signed - where i am to be held personally liable should the company go bankrupt or cease trading. - i do not remember reading this - may be i missed it .... i really cannot remember. I do read everything before i sign anything - so i am disgusted with my self if this was the case. Not with standing this, when you take out a mortgage or a loan - as you are personally liable "... your home may be at risk if you do not keep up the repayments..." are they not obliged to notify that they will hold you presonally liable for their fees should your company cease trading?

 

thanks very much - B/F

[DonkeyB]

Ask to see the original of the agreement they say you signed!

[debbbbsy]

Aswell as the Agreement, you should use CPR 31.14 to request a copy of your agreement and the original invoice, along with a breakdown of exactly what the bill is for. If they want to include interest, they should have been sending you statements.

 

The CCA now requires creditors under a regulated fixed sum agreement (with a term of more than 12 months) to provide annual statements. This requirement is contained in a new section 77A of the CCA .Failure to comply with this section will mean that the debtor is not liable to pay interest or other default payments in respect of any period of non compliance when a statement is due, but has not been sent nor will the creditor be able to enforce the agreement during the period. This provision will apply to existing agreements as well as agreements made after commencement of this requirement.

[DonkeyB]

It's not a CCA issue - just an invoice, so CCA does not apply.

[burmafriday]

Hi - thanks DB and Debbbs.

 

Your comments are very interesting

 

- I am not sure if they have sent statements. I have not seen them.

 

if they were sending statements, they would be addressed to my company whose registered address would be my previous house. The writ is addressed personally to me at my new house.(I moved in 2005)

 

Should I ask to see the statements?

 

As I said I hv written to their solicitors asking for

a) the original agreements

b) all invoices

and i will let you know as soon as i hear from them

 

Many thanks to you.

BF

[DonkeyB]

I doubt that sent statements. As mentioned, it is about to become SB, so they are desperate to see if they can get some money from you.

 

Make sure that in all correspondence you deny owing them any monies at all. If this drags out until April, that's the end of it.

[burmafriday]

Hi DB

 

Many thanks. I'll stipulate this in my letter to their solicitors. meantime, what if they claim they sent statements?

thanks

BF

[DonkeyB]

You can only wait and see. Was there a formal demand or letter before action?

[burmafriday]

HI DB

good point - No I did not receive any.

thanks BF

[creditcardmug]

Make sure all correspondence with their solicitors is sent at least recorded signed for, we don't want them saying at the hearing that they haven't received such a request! require them to provide you with the full agreement, this must contain your signature, and all invoices pertaining to alleged debt

 

Leave them in no doubt that you require them to demonstrate legally that you are PERSONALLY liable for this alleged debt

[burmafriday]

Hi CCM

Good point - Many thanks / BF

[diddydicky]

have i missed something here

 

you said it was a limited company

 

in which case it is a legal entity in its own right ( dead or alive) so as a director or shareholder you are not responsible for its debts

[diddydicky]

just noticed re the clause

 

unless you signed as guarantor for the company i would say the clause is as about as useful as a chocolate fireguard

[burmafriday]

HI Diddydicky

thanks for yr posts - yes you are right on both. but i hv not seent he agreement nor do i remember agreeing to it. If they inserted this clause without my knowledge or if it was there at the time and i missed it....i hv no idea.

 

i have asked for all copies of agreement invoices etc.

 

My quesiton is as accountants, should they not announce that "...you are personally liable if the company folds/cease trading to pay our fees..."

just like when you take out a mortgage .. "your home may be at risk...etc.

 

anyway - will update when i receive all the copies.

 

thanks again diddydicky

all the best/BF

[diddydicky]

yes you need the agreement

 

also when i was a co director we had to sign the accountancy documents every year

 

it could well be that that agreement was valid only for the one years accounts

 

certainly you can do nothing other than an embarrassed defence until that document is provided

[burmafriday]

HI Diddydicky

 

thanks - good point. I'll check this out too as soon as i receive the papers from them and get back to you

 

many thanks/BF

[DonkeyB]

I have a copy of my standard T&Cs (for want of a better phrase) from my accountant from years ago, never updated - I'm sure it's a template doc used widely in the industry. No mention of personal liability, as far as I can recall.

 

I'll dig it out in case it's of use - does any other Cagger who runs a business have a document from their accountant which, I think, sets out 'how we will conduct our business with you'?

[burmafriday]

Hi Everyone,

 

1. I submitted my Acknowledgement of Service and requested "further and better particulars - did not hear from the plaintiff.

2. I then submitted my defence stating that I had no agreement with the palintiff

3. then i hear from the plaintiff himself stating that

 

a. when i signed the agreement - i agreed to act as guarantor should the company cease trading. I did not remember reading that para. i am kicking myself for this - if this is the case.

 

b. he said he would send me the agreement which i had signed.

c. he also said that he just wanted to "have closure" and does not mind even if i admitted to the debt and offer to pay £ 10 a month.

d. he said he would accept that proposal and review in a years time.

 

4. the Plaintiff has 28 days to reply to my defence.

 

I'd like to wait until i see the agreement before taking anyfurther action as - i guess the ball is now in their court.

 

any comments?

 

have a great weekend

thanks

BF

[burmafriday]

Hi

 

A firm of accountants that used to work for me wants me to settle a bill issued 7 years ago on my company which went bust in 2003. They are issuing me with a writ. Is this possible? The worst part is i gave them a personal indemnity when i appointed them.

 

can they do this, if the invoice is dated just under 7 years ago. My other question is, is there a time limit on an indemnity? Many thanks BF

[rebel11]

Hi bur

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ihtmanual/ihtm28384.htm

 

They've had an opportunity to chase the debt, but haven't.

 

Providing there are no CCJ.

[Jasper1965]

If they are threatening to issue you with a writ I suggest they need to take some legal advice as what they really need to do is start proceedings in accordance with cpr 7 or 8.

Have you acknowledged the liability in writing (and if so was it signed) or by making any payment towards the liability within the period since the liability arose and if so when?

[burmafriday]

Hi Rebel11

 

thanks for the information - so basically they have 6 years to make a claim, and not 7 - thats very interesting.

I dont remember all the details but i did say to them that i was not going to make payment to their invoice as they

messed up on my VAT returns.

 

They served me a writ and i pleaded not guilty. I also requested further and better particulars. on receipt i will have a better idea.

my problem is that i no loinger have all the documents relating to their work . Hopefully, i will remember more once i see the paperwork.

But now i am writing to you, i am reminded that i kept a back up of my the PC. I will try and find the drive over the weekend and check/

 

You mentioned CCJ's. What impact may they have? I do not have any .

(I did pick one up last week - but this was on another matter with another party. I am appealing to have it set aside.)

 

Many thanks/BF